RW Kaapo Kakko - TPS, Liiga (2019 Draft) Part 5

[ijuka]

The last European winger to go 1st overall was Alexander Ovechkin

Over Evgeni Malkin, man. Do you think Malkin would go first if he was North American? Well, probably not. Ovechkin scored 14 goals at u-18s when he was 16 or something.

 

[Hokinaittii]

This is in my opinion a bit useless assuming. We can’t know if that would even be a perfect match. And anyway it would also still depend on who would be the 3rd player in that line.

Line chemistry is anyway in my opinion so damn important that I will not speculate if another line would be better, if a line is already working very well with the players it already has. That I would understand if Kakko’s line would be clearly dysfunctional and his linemates completely carried by Kakko. But this hasn’t definitely been the case. Kakko has been the best player in his line for sure, but still Manninen and Pesonen have also played well and done their jobs very well.

Barkov has always made his linemates better so there shouldn't be any doubts that Pesonen-Barkov-Kakko would be even more awesome than Pesonen-Manninen-Kakko.

 

[Nate070]

Rantanen - Barkov - Kakko
Heiskanen-Lindell

PP1

Rantanen - Barkov - Kakko
Laine-Heiskanen

 

[Narow]

PP1

Rantanen - Barkov - Kakko
Laine-Heiskanen

Disgusting

Pp2 with aho teravainen granlund???

 

[Alienato]

Barkov has always made his linemates better so there shouldn't be any doubts that Pesonen-Barkov-Kakko would be even more awesome than Pesonen-Manninen-Kakko.

Even Manninen is really good player Barkov would be better choise. But then is you got limited amount of stars i think that for same reasons i would take Barkov in that line i would sit he in another line if Manninen does so good job.
Well we wont see that happen, atleast this year... neither we will see scenario I was hoping. Kakko-Manninen-Kuusela. Kuusela was underperforming in last games in other line, but hes style could be better than Pesonen.
Shame Kuusela was injured. That might be hes only visit in WHC in hes great fel hall of fame career....
Well hopefully he plays few more seasons in fel and break rest records in fel playoffs (7 passes and 14games to past most games and passes, he gots already points and goals)

 

[42k]

Fun to watch KK but... But WC Finland-Denmark is quite far from NHL level.

A lot of space, slower, less physical, tons of stupid plays and choices.
Gonna be intetesting to see how it's gonna work out for him in the big league

 

[Ippenator]

Barkov has always made his linemates better so there shouldn't be any doubts that Pesonen-Barkov-Kakko would be even more awesome than Pesonen-Manninen-Kakko.

Of course I’m not doubting that the line wouldn’t be in general better with switching Manninen to Barkov. But still how much better? That we really don’t know. We can claim something based on our expectations for sure. But what I have seen already numerous times in hockey, is how putting certain very skilled and talented individuals to play together in the same line, doesn’t necessarily give as great results as we would assume in our daydreams.

And we also can’t know for sure how having Barkov as the center would after all change Kakko’s role in the line. It could mean that the line would be better by only some margin and the point and goal distribution could also change, maybe not even so clearly to Kakko’s favor as it is easy to assume.

It’s honestly a bit childish to claim as a sure thing that Kakko would get way more points with some even better players. It could very well even happen, but as the line has already worked pretty darn well as it has been, it could be also possible that the difference wouldn’t be as big as it might seem on paper.

 

[ijuka]

Of course I’m not doubting that the line wouldn’t be in general better with switching Manninen to Barkov. But still how much better? That we really don’t know. We can claim something based on out expectations for sure. It what I have seen already numerous times in hockey, is how putting certain very skilled and talented individuals to play together on the same line, doesn’t necessarily give as great results as we would assume in our daydreams.

And we also can’t know for sure how having Barkov as the center would after all change Kakko’s role in the line. It could mean that the line would be better by only some margin and the point and goal distribution could also change.

It’s honestly a bit childish to claim as a sure thing that Kakko would get way more points with some even better players. It could very well even happen, but as the line has already worled pretty darn well as it has been, it could be also possible that the difference wouldn’t be as big as it might seem on paper.

You really love being pessimistic when there is no logical reason to do so. Many of your concerns are just doom-and-gloom that have no basis. On your last sentence, no, quite wrong about who's being childish actually. If you've actually watched the games, Kakko's been wide open numerous times with people not realizing they could pass to him. Most of his goals he's scored essentially on his own. It's absurd to argue with a straight face that he wouldn't benefit from playing with better players. Absurd.

Yes, I do know you're saying this to make Kakko's performance look worse and Laine's better. It's very transparent.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You really love being pessimistic when there is no logical reason to do so. Many of your concerns are just doom-and-gloom that have no basis. On your last sentence, no, quite wrong about who's being childish actually. If you've actually watched the games, Kakko's been wide open numerous times with people not realizing they could pass to him. Most of his goals he's scored essentially on his own. It's absurd to argue with a straight face that he wouldn't benefit from playing with better players. Absurd.

Yes, I do know you're saying this to make Kakko's performance look worse and Laine's better. It's very transparent.

Some people just like being a pessimist because chances are you are more often right than wrong. We have one of those on our board as well

 

[Ippenator]

You really love being pessimistic when there is no logical reason to do so. Many of your concerns are just doom-and-gloom that have no basis. On your last sentence, no, quite wrong about who's being childish actually. If you've actually watched the games, Kakko's been wide open numerous times with people not realizing they could pass to him. Most of his goals he's scored essentially on his own. It's absurd to argue with a straight face that he wouldn't benefit from playing with better players. Absurd.

Yes, I do know you're saying this to make Kakko's performance look worse and Laine's better. It's very transparent.

It’s not being pessimistic when trying to avoid the overhyping that a few (mostly Finnish dudes) are doing here.

I love what Kakko has been doing in this tournament, and he has clearly exceeded what I was expecting from him. He has been clearly a better and more mature player than he was most of the Liiga season (I watched him play in almost all his games this season). There was definitely signs of this in a couple of his Liiga playoffs games, but I was still doubting him being at this level in the WHC tournament playing against top class adults.

But still even though he has been extremely good, he has had linemates whom have played really well and supported him and his play mostly in exactly the way that he has needed as a still very young and unexperienced player.

In my opinion these fake ”what if”-scenario’s that are absolutely impossible to arrange in reality in the according situation are always childish. It’s imaginary fanboyism and mumbojumbo, which leads only into unfruitful discussions of too much hypothetical issues and way too much of emotional attachment in the discussions.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Some people just like being a pessimist because chances are you are more often right than wrong. We have one of those on our board as well

Well it's also true that we tend to talk about prospects in terms of ceilings when almost by definition no one reaches their ceiling. I agree with this post but in general prospects tend to be overrated, especially by their own team's fans.

 

[Ippenator]

You really love being pessimistic when there is no logical reason to do so. Many of your concerns are just doom-and-gloom that have no basis. On your last sentence, no, quite wrong about who's being childish actually. If you've actually watched the games, Kakko's been wide open numerous times with people not realizing they could pass to him. Most of his goals he's scored essentially on his own. It's absurd to argue with a straight face that he wouldn't benefit from playing with better players. Absurd.

Yes, I do know you're saying this to make Kakko's performance look worse and Laine's better. It's very transparent.

You are really an extremely agenda ridden poster here if anyone ever has been. And so that you really would understand how awful strawman you once again created, I can easily admit that Kakko has been already playing better than Laine played in the WHC tournament where he broke records and most probably Kakko will also finish with a clearly better tournament in the end.

Sorry, but what you just did at the end of your post was exactly the sad loser mentality, which way too many posters have here, which is creating strawmen out of the other posters posts and using them to fortify your own agenda ridden posting by lying and being disrespectful towards the other posters. A very childish and a very passive aggressively hostile way of posting.

 

[ijuka]

Well it's also true that we tend to talk about prospects in terms of ceilings when almost by definition no one reaches their ceiling. I agree with this post but in general prospects tend to be overrated, especially by their own team's fans.

That's true as well. The ceiling / floor idea I don't like. The likely projection is much more important. And the likely projection for someone like Kakko who doesn't really need to improve at all to be at a top 6 NHL level is quite high.

 

[Muhkea]

The last European winger to go 1st overall was Alexander Ovechkin

Who's Nail Yakupov?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Who's Nail Yakupov?

Considered a NA skater since he was drafted out of Canadian major juniors. Just like Matthews was considered a European skater

 

[hi]

I followed, liked and quoted on HF

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I wonder how awkward itll be at NJ scouting meetings when some scouts say... hey wait a minute, why arent we considering KK 1st overall??

I know for a fact back in 2015 there was one former NJ scout that wanted Barzal instead of Zacha... That didnt fly over too well at meetings cause apparently Barzal was too small and couldnt skate

 

[ijuka]

I wonder how awkward itll be at NJ scouting meetings when some scouts say... hey wait a minute, why arent we considering KK 1st overall??

I know for a fact back in 2015 there was one former NJ scout that wanted Barzal instead of Zacha... That didnt fly over too well at meetings cause apparently Barzal was too small and couldnt skate

Every single year, NHL scouts forget that skating's frequently improved leaps and bounds post-draft. Speed and explosiveness at least. Agility, "skating IQ" and such are something I'd pay more attention to.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

A player like Taylor Hall prefers NJ as he can get everything NY players get without the unnecessary media and fan attention outside

You do realize NJ players live in the exact same areas right?

This idea that the Rangers media is so tough is funny. We have like 3-4 reporters who cover the team. Only one guy will criticize the team, and he gets his info from the Garden, so its mostly criticism the team wants to be put into the media.

I don't even know if I believe that there's less fan attention in NJ. Are you saying the Devils have less fans in the areas that Hall lives and frequent than the Rangers have in the areas where Rangers players live and frequent?

 

[Nate070]

It’s not being pessimistic when trying to avoid the overhyping that a few (mostly Finnish dudes) are doing here.

I love what Kakko has been doing in this tournament, and he has clearly exceeded what I was expecting from him. He has been clearly a better and more mature player than he was most of the Liiga season (I watched him play in almost all his games this season). There was definitely signs of this in a couple of his Liiga playoffs games, but I was still doubting him being at this level in the WHC tournament playing against top class adults.

But still even though he has been extremely good, he has had linemates whom have played really well and supported him and his play mostly in exactly the way that he has needed as a still very young and unexperienced player.

In my opinion these fake ”what if”-scenario’s that are absolutely impossible to arrange in reality in the according situation are always childish. It’s imaginary fanboyism and mumbojumbo, which leads only into unfruitful discussions of too much hypothetical issues and way too much of emotional attachment in the discussions.

Supported when he needed??? He carries the god damn whole team on his shoulders! You still try to downplay his performance and deep inside you want to be right about his hockey IQ. Sorry mr, you blew it on Rantanen and now it´s happening again on Kakko

 

[Hokinaittii]

Of course I’m not doubting that the line wouldn’t be in general better with switching Manninen to Barkov. But still how much better? That we really don’t know. We can claim something based on our expectations for sure. But what I have seen already numerous times in hockey, is how putting certain very skilled and talented individuals to play together in the same line, doesn’t necessarily give as great results as we would assume in our daydreams.

And we also can’t know for sure how having Barkov as the center would after all change Kakko’s role in the line. It could mean that the line would be better by only some margin and the point and goal distribution could also change, maybe not even so clearly to Kakko’s favor as it is say to assume.

It’s honestly a bit childish to claim as a sure thing that Kakko would get way more points with some even better players. It could very well even happen, but as the line has already worked pretty darn well as it has been, it could be also possible that the difference wouldn’t be as big as it might seem on paper.

Did I say "man, if only Kakko had Barkov in his line, I bet he would have 20 points by now"? Talk about assuming things here, eh?

I'm only trying to say Kakko has been MVP of the tournament so far and he doesn't even have any help from NHL (like Laine did when he was MVP in 2016). It was so noticeable how Barkov made things a lot easier for teenager Laine back then and it would be only fair for Kakko to have some of that "performance anxiety" off his shoulders when he doesn't need to be the main guy for his team at 18.

Even though Kakko definately has some good chemistry with Pesonen and Manninen, it's 90 percent of the time Kakko who is making everything happen in that line. It's not like Manninen or Pesonen has been feeding Kakko into empty net goals (well Manninen did for one goal), but it's actually the other way around with Kakko feeding both for some great feeds and he still has only one assist.

So yeah, I honestly can't think any negatives for having someone like Barkov with Kakko, it's not really rocket science to think they would do well together, especially when you consider what kind of player types both present

By the way, I'd like to hear your thoughts about Kakko after these 4 games in the WJC. Do you still think he doesn't have superstar potential due to his lacking hockey IQ?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

There’s a few Rangers who live in Manhattan, but most live in Westchester.

I think most of them actually live in Manhattan. The ones who are married with kids might live further north, but its a pretty young team, and from what I've read, a lot of them live in the same area in Manhattan and then commute together to practice. It's easier with traffic to live in Manhattan and commute to practice in Westchester than to live further north and have to make the commute into Manhattan for games.

 

[ijuka]

Supported when he needed??? He carries the god damn whole team on his shoulders! You still try to downplay his performance and deep inside you want to be right about his hockey IQ. Sorry mr, you blew it on Rantanen and now it´s happening again on Kakko

Especially funny because his hockey IQ's looking extremely good, with constant good decision making. And with Kakko's coach calling him gretzky-like with always being in the right place at the right time, that initial argument of him having low hockey IQ looks as ridiculous as always.

I'll double and triple down on the point that Kakko deciding that passing for scoring chances is a waste of time is a sign of good hockey IQ, we've seen what the others can do with his passes. A much better decision to try to score himself, or get a rebound opportunity.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

This idea that the Rangers media is so tough is funny. We have like 3-4 reporters who cover the team. Only one guy will criticize the team, and he gets his info from the Garden, so its mostly criticism the team wants to be put into the media.

I don't even know if I believe that there's less fan attention in NJ. Are you saying the Devils have less fans in the areas that Hall lives and frequent than the Rangers have in the areas where Rangers players live and frequent?

Well I dont think they are that tough - but you cant deny there is more of it as compared to an NJ or even a NYI.

Hall himself has said he can go to Hoboken and Jersey City and enjoy his nights out without many fans coming up to him. Sure there are occasional signings and pictures but if he was a NYR it would surely be higher. NJ itself has finally crossed that line of having more Jersey fans than NYR/NYI/Philly (NOT combined but singular). He said he enjoys the level of media attention he gets without it crossing the border, like if he walked around NYC as a NYR.

 

[ijuka]

If Kakko can deal with the Finnish media, then he should be fine just about anywhere in NHL.

Finnish media have about 5 Kakko hype pieces a day.