RW Kaapo Kakko - TPS, Liiga (2019 Draft) Part 5

[FinPanda]

Kakko played under 11 minutes and scored 3 goals. That explains why it took so long for Kakko to score the second goal..

 

[Levitate]

Rangers are rebuilding and have plenty of good young players coming. They'll be fine.

I'm not sure how the Devils system is but they'll be better with Hall back. Schneider is just really bad.

A decent Schneider (or any goalie) and a healthy Hall and they're probably a bubble team again at least. They could add Hughes/Kakko and Ty Smith, get Hall back, and generally have a pretty nice roster even if it's not yet contender ready

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Really love his style of play. Have always enjoyed watching that skilled but heavy style of puck protection. Kakko makes it look very fluid too.

 

[ijuka]

Kakko played under 11 minutes and scored 3 goals. That explains why it took so long for Kakko to score the second goal..

Made no sense how little he played in the first place, like in the 3rd I noticed his first shift was at like 5 minutes.

But well, this makes the Hughes "he only played for 13min" argument even more funny.

Poor kid....

Perhaps the Rags will agree to 4th overall + 16th overall + Kerfoot + Timmins for 2nd overall.

"revealed", this was very obvious.

 

[bigdog16]

Man, I kind of feel bad he'll play for Devils or Rags. It will be almost McDavid level of waste, playing for a hopeless team. And while he's played great so far in the WHC, he's not going to lift either team single-handedly to the playoffs.

Rangers have an excellent crop of prospects

 

[LuckyBoeser]

Just got home... holy shit Kaapo Kakko is so good.

 

[Uncle Dru]

We shall see. Pretty much stopped posting there after that BS (and I've been around on here for over a decade). A lot of stuff was deleted in that thread too or were posts in other threads where I was basically called an idiot. It was grand. Then I was "disciplined" for responding of course.

And, again, that was all simply for suggesting Kakko and Hughes were close. Never even said who I preferred because I was still watching tape.

Lmao, keep fighting the good fight H4H

 

[Fugazy]

Just got home... holy **** Kaapo Kakko is so good.

He’s checking off a lot of the boxes, that’s for sure.

 

[FinnishSniper]

I think people feel Hughes has more to gain by maturing and growing than Kakko does. It's been kind of common knowledge that Kakko may be more NHL ready...he's bigger, he's been playing against men, etc. Hughes has still been considered 1st overall even so because people project that he wil have the bigger impact as he develops. He literally has all of the tools except great size which isn't a big barrier in the NHL any more, and even though he's 5'10 170 lbs. Entirely possible he could grow a bit more, and almost certain he will put on some more muscle.

In the end Hughes is viewed as the more complete package. He's a center and literally the only thing he lacks is a few inches in height

Hughes the more complete package You really lost me there.

 

[BB88]

Pretty incredible if Kakko is seen so inferior to Hughes that he can't really be talked in Devils forum, or should I say pretty weak.

A decent Schneider (or any goalie) and a healthy Hall and they're probably a bubble team again at least. They could add Hughes/Kakko and Ty Smith, get Hall back, and generally have a pretty nice roster even if it's not yet contender ready

Don't really see it, East has some quality depth as we are seeing and few teams atleast are looking at jumping next season.
Especially with Florida setting up for a helluva offseason

 

[Blender]

FUnniest thing will be if the Devils do go Kakko first watching their fans here turn around and run down Hughes after what will have been two plus months of the opposite...

Well this is just nonsense. Kakko gets far more praise on the Devils board than anything negative said about him, most people just think Hughes is better and that he will be the pick.

 

[Edmonton East]

Well this is just nonsense. Kakko gets far more praise on the Devils board than anything negative said about him, most people just think Hughes is better and that he will be the pick.

Facts prove otherwise, but OK.

 

[Mildan]

Well this is just nonsense. Kakko gets far more praise on the Devils board than anything negative said about him, most people just think Hughes is better and that he will be the pick.

Yet, the thread discussing him as a draft prospect was locked due to "the pick being Hughes".

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Pretty incredible if Kakko is seen so inferior to Hughes that he can't really be talked in Devils forum, or should I say pretty weak.



Don't really see it, East has some quality depth as we are seeing and few teams atleast are looking at jumping next season.
Especially with Florida setting up for a helluva offseason

No offense to Florida but theyve been prepping for a run for the last three years weve been hearing. I wouldnt pick them as my biggest worry especially since theyre out of division.

That poster didnt even mention NJ adding other talent. NJ with Hughes and Smith, and Hall signed, is a wild card competitor. Then add in a FA or two and a trade or two depending on the routes they go and it furthers that

 

[sooni]

Still hoping that he is going to Rangers. Better organisation...

 

[Blender]

Yet, the thread discussing him as a draft prospect was locked due to "the pick being Hughes".

That thread was started to troll after he spent post after post talking down Hughes and posting Kakko stuff in the Hughes thread, and all signs are that Hughes will be the pick. Even so barely anything in that thread before it was shutdown was negative towards Kakko, it's just been obvious that Hughes is the pick, and saying that isn't bashing Kakko. We have a general draft thread and a IIHF thread where Kakko gets lots of praise, maybe try reading those?

 

[kelsier]

I will respond to this with diplomacy, despite the clear disconnect between what I wrote and what you took umbrage with, and the pejorative way in which you considered my thoughts.

1)I follow all the draft agencies because I was a draft writer for myriad websites, and it is a passion of mine. Though I am no longer writing actively (doesn't really pay the bills), I still research the draft though film and writing, and several hockey fans write me to ask my opinions on prospects/teams. The reason I mentioned the specific agencies is the same reason I would cite a source my name or link instead of saying "I heard" or "people are saying" -- it's simply more journalistic and ends the question, rather than creating more questions: "well, who said?"

2)A player can indeed have a generational skill without being a generational player. Michael Grabner has generational skating speed -- unfortunately he's not a generational player because that is his one, singular stand-out skill. Ryan Reaves has generational strength, but he's a fourth liner because, again, that's his singular, stand-out skill. But both of those players had such a strong top skill that they are literally in the NHL for that one skill alone.

3)Jack Hughes was injured during the WJC, forcing him to miss many of the games Team USA competed in. In four games, he played quite well with 0 goals and 4 assists, though to the people who had been following him it was pretty clear that he was less than 100%.

4)Kakko was indeed terrific in his one WHC game thus far. Hughes was one of the top Fs on Team USA in their one game, which is not saying much as Team USA was dominated by a very impressive and pumped up Team Slovakia.

5)I think you were trying to insult Jack Hughes' shooting ability by bold-facing my complimentary words on it. Every scout/draft writer I have read or conferred with seems to think he is a very good shooter, is there a reason you disagree with all of them?

6)What you called my "masterpiece" was the idea that one player can pass another player in draft rankings. I don't understand why you called it such when it is simply common knowledge -- Hischier passed Patrick, the pre-season consensus #1, over the course of 2017. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins passed similarly Adam Larsson in 2011. Last year, Jesperi Kotkaniemi began the season outside of many experts top 20 lists, but passed up consensus pre-season #3 Filip Zadina (among others) to get drafted #3 overall. This year, Cole Caufield began the year outside of most top 20s and now has a chance to be a top-7 pick. Draft rankings are always fluid, especially since at ages 17-18, player development curves vary so greatly. Which leads us to...

7)Who is better today is not necessarily better tomorrow. This is why teams employ scouts and don't just draft the players with the best stats. Projection is a huge part of the game. Let's take a recent example in Elias Pettersson. In 2017, he was very good but not dominating in the Swedish Allvenskan, averaging just under a point per game. He severely underwhelmed at the WJC, notching just a single point (assist) in six games, leading his detractors to say he was "too small" and "too weak". Though his draft rating was generally in the 7-12 range, Vancouver really liked his "potential" and took him at #5 overall, despite the fact that fellow Swedish F Lias Andersson was already good enough to be playing an effective role in the Swedish men's league and had scored three goals in a bigger role at the WJC. Is there any GM on the planet who would now draft Andersson over Pettersson, even though most would argue that Andersson was the better player just two years ago when they were drafted? This is just one example out of hundreds, so I will stick to the one.

8)I agree with you that I am excited to watch the remainder of the WHC and see all the players shine. And if you'd like to read my draft threads, I cover all prospects to the best of my ability and really enjoy doing it. Like all draft writers, sometimes I'm right and sometimes not. While I looked good for being one of only two writers to have Mat Barzal in my top 5 for 2015, I also look bad for being one of two writers to have Denis Gurianov in my top 10 that same year. This year, I was the first person I saw to rank Bowen Byram at #3, and now several others are following suit. What I can say is that every single major draft writer (all more accomplished than myself) and every single major scouting service have this in common -- Jack Hughes at #1 overall. So, perhaps we can just treat each other's opinions with respect and you can write them to debate your point.

Should I go to the Hughes thread and leave a long essay of non-sense behind me where I'd hammer him down below Kakko, I would too come back not diplomatic, but humble as hell - that is if I even dared.

Now I'm sure I don't have to point out that pretty much every single person that posts here are more than well aware of what's happening in the world of NHL draft 2019 and the draft rankings that go along with it. So no, you don't have to explicitly point out every single title to make a point.

Sigh. There it comes again again, "generational". We don't need examples of players who've done extra work at the gym, who've gone through extensive skating exercises or who've generational whatever abilities or magical powers. So according to you Hughes has generational skills. Since you didn't include or exclude any of those attributes that he's supposedly generational at, should we assume he's a generational passer, skater, shooter, grinder and why not, a boxer? Like seriously, someone who gets any cents for writing anything in public, should leave this word out of the vocabulary if for no better reason than to sustain credibility. Lately it's been getting out of hands and reporters and tabloid writers certainly aren't helping out there.

Kakko not only played well but was almost the sole reason the Finns got two points out of Canada - a team full of NHL players by the way. Scored two goals against the best hockey nation in the world at the World Championships while he hadn't even been drafted. Then he goes on to annihilate Slovakia and that's 5 goals in 2 played games. He's currently sitting at #1 in the leading scorer's list (to the best of my knowledge). I'm not sure if you fully understand and appreciate how rare and extraordinary that is, not matter if it's only two games played. Meanwhile, despite of getting to play with Art Ross winner, Hughes has zero points. Like said, just a few games behind but these two have been on two different realms, only in this reality on a realm not favourable towards Hughes and yet you have Hughes on a full tier ahead of Kakko and you come here to preach about it. You must realize how ridiculous that looks, right (especially when Kakko has him beat in all of the head-to-head games)?

Yeah I knew you were going to come up with that. The most common excuse when a player fails to meet up the expectations. Of course as a reporter you should hold onto some sort of neutrality am I correct? Yet no where in these paragraphs after paragraphs have I read anything about Kakko facing Hughes two times by now in the world junior finals. Wonder why that is. Could it maybe be cause Kakko scored the golden goal in the last year's WJC and brought home the gold medal right under Hughes' nose? Or could it maybe be due to Kakko beating Hughes on both of those finals played and bringing home the trophy? For a writer to cover one prospects' achievements and leaving out crucial facts over the other, at some point one has to question the level of objectivity.

You've stated that Hughes does things on the same level as McDavid but you also included and I quote, (he has) "high-end shooting skills". Yet he's notoriously famous for possessing a muffin of a shot. So perhaps, just perhaps you have a slightly different or lower standards than I (or most people) do for what comes down to having great or elite shooting ability? Feel free to elaborate further because I seriously can't remember Hughes pulling out much if any hard time slappers from distance for instance that actually found their way in the back of the net.

Come again? It seems you completely missed the point or couldn't comprehend it. Just before you had openly stated Hughes being a tier ahead of Kakko, but then you follow up on that with a comment by saying that this (or draft order) could change if one displayed a better tournament performance than the other. So if you have a prospect that "apparently" is a tier ahead of another but that another has shows up with better results in a relatively short tournament. Now where's the logic in that? Actually, this contradicts pretty much any logic there is. There could be a number of reasons for player B to have better tournament than player A but if there was a tier in between them from the get go, that shouldn't change s**t. It wouldn't mean that the player B was inferior to player A, but rather that would imply that the player B was falsely evaluated in contrast to player A from the get go. However despite of your own opinions, that really wasn't even the case as they were regarded pretty much even at the start of this tournament ("51-49"). I suggest you re-read what I pointed out instead of wasting time writing up half an essay of something that is completely irrelevant to the point.

When you have a talent like Kakko, who's dominating men not only in the domestic professional league but on an international level as well and now has a track-record of excelling against NHL level of players, that's an exception to the rule alone. That something that just doesn't happen. And if it happens, it happens maybe once a decade or two. Laine managed to do that and Matthews had great tournament as well but right now Kakko is on a track-record of even something more. So you have your beloved "generational skill" player of Hughes, yet he's not as good as Kakko is at this very moment. So in all of your expertise where do you start drawing lines to which heights Kakko could reach and how beyond the world can you parallel Hughes into that calculation? One has no glaring weaknesses and had displayed greatness at all levels while still being just 18 year old draft eligible kid. Then the other one has height & size concerns and isn't exactly a great goal scorer and hardly a two-way player, but otherwise is a great talent. How are you going to convince that Hughes is not only a tier ahead of Kakko as a prospect but also has a higher ceiling? Like please, unless your agenda is to make me laugh, then get out of here already cause you've already succeeded in just that.

Right now the only real advantage Hughes has over Kakko is top speed, but this can be taught. As far as the skill goes, you could argue a case either way. Out of the two, Kakko clearly has far superior shot and scoring instincts despite of you're argument of Hughes possessing elite shot. Then at the same time Hughes is small, probably not even 170 lbs while Kakko has no size concerns whatsoever despite of being lanky which means he will only get a lot stronger and of course faster on the ice due time. I suppose I don't have to remind that size cannot be taught, but hey if that isn't a compelling factor or otherwise rather meaningless to you then that's alright. At the end of the day one has delivered home two goal medals in head to head games, where the other has deliver zero. In the real life actions speak louder than words but then again, I'm not sure in which world all the reporters and writers live in.

This is really the first time I really partake on this debate (outside the HFNyr) but since you brought this to Kakko topic, that finally got me boiled up enough. Now as for the invitation to read your articles, that's appreciated but no ty. I think we may see the world of hockey from different perspectives and I'm not quite convinced that it'd be worth my time. Also I think you may be too deep down the hype, missing a lot of details in front of you. I really do hope you open your eyes and dig real deep just to see what it is exactly that you're debating about. Otherwise if you plan to reply on this, I urge you to be specific and catch the point so it won't waste either of our times. Cheers!

 

[Polar Bear]

Poor kid....

Perhaps the Rags will agree to 4th overall + 16th overall + Kerfoot + Timmins for 2nd overall.

Lol, we hang up and block your number. You're going to be paying a king's ransom for us to even consider moving up to 2.

 

[Edmonton East]

That thread was started to troll after he spent post after post talking down Hughes and posting Kakko stuff in the Hughes thread, and all signs are that Hughes will be the pick. Even so barely anything in that thread before it was shutdown was negative towards Kakko, it's just been obvious that Hughes is the pick, and saying that isn't bashing Kakko. We have a general draft thread and a IIHF thread where Kakko gets lots of praise, maybe try reading those?

Nope, that a complete lie. Want me to further embarrass you and the board and post what was said in the Hughes thread? Maybe I'll get around to it at work on Monday.

Keep blatantly lying though. It's cute.

The fact you are calling this a troll thread should be an infraction, honestly (link below). I'll let the unbiased, reasonable folks in here decide for themselves:

Prospect Info: - Kaapo Kakko

 

[ijuka]

Yet, the thread discussing him as a draft prospect was locked due to "the pick being Hughes".

Very disrespectful of the board, indeed. Especially because that thread was made after the McKenzie article where a scout said it's 51-49. One would think 49% would deserve at least a thread but hey.

 

[SML2]

If Hughes is still the clear #1, he must be one hell of a player. I'm hoping Shero's relationship with his family makes it hard for him to not take Hughes #1.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Lol, we hang up and block your number. You're going to be paying a king's ransom for us to even consider moving up to 2.

What if I do sex things

 

[Polar Bear]

What if I do sex things

Then we block your number for 10 years. Y'all have enough great Fins. Spread the wealth.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Poor kid....

Perhaps the Rags will agree to 4th overall + 16th overall + Kerfoot + Timmins for 2nd overall.

Oh if Eurolanche said it...

 

[Mildan]

That thread was started to troll after he spent post after post talking down Hughes and posting Kakko stuff in the Hughes thread, and all signs are that Hughes will be the pick. Even so barely anything in that thread before it was shutdown was negative towards Kakko, it's just been obvious that Hughes is the pick, and saying that isn't bashing Kakko. We have a general draft thread and a IIHF thread where Kakko gets lots of praise, maybe try reading those?

I do read those, I read a lot just generally don't post that much. I just found the mods message when closing the thread quite weird though funny. I have no idea who started the thread but simply went there to see what were the thoughts of the fan base what comes to him and how he compares in their eyes.