RW Kaapo Kakko - TPS, Liiga (2019 Draft) Part 5

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Ippenator

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Saying Hughes has the higher ceiling because of size is ridiculous. Kakko is just as immature physically as Hughes. Kakko just has natural strenght, but just as his teammates of TPS have said, he looks like a twig. He can easily develop his physicality to dominate even more by adding like 30 pounds.
I would say that Kakko will gain probably even more to his game than Hughes will, by them both getting still more strength. Hughes is the type whom has naturally a lot of the fast muscle cells, as he has been really having a lot of the explosive speed already since very young. Players that have that are naturally also often relatively light by weight and also if they gain more weight by training more general strength, they might even lose slightly some of the speed and explosiveness that they have naturally had. Just slightly, but still by some amount. Especially if the weight gain is too sudden.

This will most likely also happen to the type like Kakko (with not as great natural explosiveness) by some amount first, as he will also need to still train more general strength and core strength. But when he gets to training more the explosiveness for his legs and does that with a lot of hard work, he should be able to make the skating difference between him and Hughes smaller.

I’m not claiming Kakko will ever be as good skater as Hughes will be at his best, but if he will make the difference still smaller and he will definitely be always bigger and stronger than Hughes, I would say that gaining more strength will still most probably give even more the benefit to Kakko. Of course gaining the right amount of strength and body mass will be a great thing for both of them, but I’m just pretty sure that gaining strength will be even more beneficial for Kakko through more improved skating.

The final decisive thing between them will be though their hockey IQ. The one with the better hockey IQ will be after all the better player in the NHL.

Right now I have to say that I’m not sure that which one of them after all has the better hockey IQ. And I’m not yet at least completely sure if they have the real superstar class hockey IQ. I was doubting more Kakko’s hockey IQ before his play in the WHC now. But they both have now definitely shown that much of glimpses of spectacular hockey IQ, that I can say that after all I see at least some absolute superstar potential in them both.

They seem that even to me as prospects that it seems pretty clear to me that Hughes will be picked as the 1st overall pick because of being American and a center. But right now I see Kakko as the better player and I could see even his potential a bit better, but on the other hand I think the before mentioned Kakko’s skating improvement will take more time and work than for Hughes to catch up with Kakko as a player by gaining enough strength to compete well with NHL players.

But still I see Kakko’s potential even higher when he finally gets his strength and explosiveness training finished. It will just take still many years for him to get there, and it can very well be that the first couple of his NHL seasons will not show as much develoment as he will gain later.

I might of course be even slightly biased with my thoughts here. Definitely trying not to be, but the subconsciousness can be a real biaaatch, you know...
 
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CantLoseWithMatthews

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Can someone explain to me why the consensus is that Kakko is better now, but Hughes will be better in the future?

Kakko and Hughes are only 2-3 months difference in age no? Or do we know Kakko physically peaked and Hughes still has not? I don't see why Kakko could not still learn to train better under an NHL management/team with almost unlimited resources and he should still be able to develop his hockey smarts no?

Genuine question. I don't follow scouting as much as some here and I have a hard time understanding why a more ready player that's better now (at that level of eliteness of top 1-2 picks at least) can't keep that advantage? At this point Hughes would be trying to reach Kakko's level and not the opposite no? Is Hughes hockey IQ so above the charts that he will surefire be a way better player than Kakko in 2-3 years?
people tend to make the erroneous assumption that the more complete and physically developed player has less of a ceiling, and the raw player has more room to grow. Personally I liken it to building a house. I think the stronger the foundation, the more you can build
 

Hischier and Hughes

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people tend to make the erroneous assumption that the more complete and physically developed player has less of a ceiling, and the raw player has more room to grow. Personally I liken it to building a house. I think the stronger the foundation, the more you can build
The best player for most of a decade was 5’10” with a 6’3” top5 player behind him
 

Ippenator

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Good review @TheFinnishTrap (I have some structural problems to react comments adequately ;) )

Stamina. Stamina is one of Kaapo's weaknesses currently (noted by some scouting agencies too) strength-wise, and that only relatively. That's not something out-of-character considering his age and how intensive he seems to be in his typical shifts. However, I do not see that truly big problem in longer run as that can be fixed.

Otherwise, I agree with you nearly 100% about Kaako and Jack. Well written and thought comment. :thumbu:
This is true, and as you mentioned, this is pretty much how it is for such young players anyway. Honestly he seems to have pretty good stamina for his age, but yes, for sure it’s lacking still compared to most of the more experienced professional players.
 

Hischier and Hughes

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Crosby put up 102 points in his D+1 season, I'd say he had a pretty strong foundation. Plus he's built like a tank despite not being super tall
Thats fine, im just simply pointing out size doesnt directly correlate to who has the higher ceiling

Then again half this thread is about not knowing why Jacks ceiling is so high so that must mean Kakkos is higher (you didnt say this)
 

FinnishSniper

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people tend to make the erroneous assumption that the more complete and physically developed player has less of a ceiling, and the raw player has more room to grow. Personally I liken it to building a house. I think the stronger the foundation, the more you can build
The funny thing is, that Kakko’s body is just as immature as Hughes’, he’s just naturally really strong on his skates
 
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Hischier and Hughes

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idk why youd take an inch away from crosbys height, but anyway, hes a weird case because hes built like a truck and was almost 195 when he was drafted
youre going to bug me about an inch and then say Crosby weighed 195 at the draft?

Its clear you werent around for that draft because Crosby weighed 180lbs
 
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Hischier and Hughes

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Here is Crosby draft year report where he was listed at 193lbs, it's clear you weren't around for that draft.

Sidney Crosby’s pre-draft scouting report remains incredibly accurate
uZan0f1.jpg
Except youre wrong



Have a nice day
 
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ijuka

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The best player for most of a decade was 5’10” with a 6’3” top5 player behind him
I'm not sure why you think it's only about size. I hope you realize that Sidney Crosby's a generational talent.

Do you look at Kakko's play and think "Yeah he's big", with nothing else coming to mind? Many other players are big. What do you think is the difference between Cozens and Kakko? Strength?
 

Aurinko

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There is zero reason for Kakko to build more strength. His size and great techniques to protect the puck make the extra strength useless.

I would like to see him develop even more explosiveness to his skating and just keep doing what he is doing.
 

Hischier and Hughes

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I'm not sure why you think it's only about size. I hope you realize that Sidney Crosby's a generational talent.

Do you look at Kakko's play and think "Yeah he's big", with nothing else coming to mind?
because the poster I quoted mentioned the difference in size and how he picks the bigger player

or are you choosing not to use context?
 

The Crypto Guy

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There is zero reason for Kakko to build more strength. His size and great techniques to protect the puck make the extra strength useless.

I would like to see him develop some explosiveness to skating and just keep doing what he is doing.
Dude he's 180. He will be putting on a lot more muscle. That muscle will allow him to be move explosive in his skating. He's also 6'2 right now, if he grows another inch to 6'3 he will be a string bean at 180. He'll probably be around 205-210 in his prime. Jagr was 230 at 6'2.
 
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ijuka

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because the poster I quoted mentioned the difference in size and how he picks the bigger player

or are you choosing not to use context?
What? Just, what? And what a third time?
In this post:
people tend to make the erroneous assumption that the more complete and physically developed player has less of a ceiling, and the raw player has more room to grow. Personally I liken it to building a house. I think the stronger the foundation, the more you can build
THAT is how you read it? I read it as, a player being small doesn't automatically mean they have more to develop than a player being big. Love the jab about not using context.

By the way, that message is something I agree with. Kakko's not a fully developed package himself. He's not a brick wall. He just uses his body extremely intelligently and effectively. Take a look at his board work, and his movements. What's he listed at, 180 lbs? You said Crosby at 5'11" was listed at 180, right? So how do we call a 6'2" guy at 180? Fully finished developing?
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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What? Just, what? And what a third time?
In this post:

THAT is how you read it? I read it as, a player being small doesn't automatically mean they have more to develop than a player being big. Love the jab about not using context.

By the way, that message is something I agree with. Kakko's not a fully developed package himself. He's not a brick wall. He just uses his body extremely intelligently and effectively. Take a look at his board work, and his movements. What's he listed at, 180 lbs? You said Crosby at 5'11" was listed at 180, right?
yep, to clarify I was talking about comparing a "raw" player to a pro-ready player, not size. I was considering things more like Kakko's overall game and how good he already looks against men
 

Ippenator

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There is zero reason for Kakko to build more strength. His size and great techniques to protect the puck make the extra strength useless.

I would like to see him develop even more explosiveness to his skating and just keep doing what he is doing.
You can’t gain clearly more explosiveness without still gaining some muscle mass. Sorry, but it’s simply impossible. Explosiveness with human movement comes always from the amount of the fast twitch muscle cells. Every human being has a set amount of them though. Some are born with a lot more of them than others and are then naturally having more of explosive speed.

You can’t increase the number of your fast twitch muscle cells by training hard, but what you can do is that you can make your existing fast twitch muscle cells bigger and stronger through the right kind of training and hard work. If Kakko wants to gain substantially better acceleration, he will need to gain at least about 5 kg more of muscle mass. Part of it to his his legs as the strengthened fast twitch muscle cells, and part of it to his core and back, which will both need to have a good amount of strength to support the body correctly with gaining the quicker acceleration with the more explosive muscle mass in the legs.

This is what especially Olympic speedskaters need to do with their training. But it does absolutely apply also to an extent for hockey players, when they want to substantially improve their acceleration and explosiveness.
 

DaJackal

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What does "most audible fans" even mean? People on internet or are you suggesting fans in the stands would start booing him?

Regardless, the management and coaching staff is not going to alter how they utilize a player based on any of this.

People on Internet. HFBoards, but also Twitter etc. They will spark media articles rather quick. No management is immune to media, and you should be familiar with how much they tend to recency bias. For example, one year when Pens & Crosby had a rough start to their season I saw articles of how "it is time to trade Crosby" before the season had hit its middle mark. They won the Cup that season btw.

..ok, didn't take long to google that: it was December 2015.
Pittsburgh Penguins: Time To Trade Sidney Crosby Or Evgeni Malkin?

And this wasn't the only one.
 
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