RW Jake Virtanen (2014, 6th, VAN) III

[NoRaise4Brackett]

Umm, there is such a thing as opportunity cost. If Canada wasn't forced on the PK for 6 minutes they may of scored in that time frame, not everything happens in a vacuum.

How about Marner's dumb penalty near the end when Canada needed a goal to tie it? It's not like it was a clearing over the defensive-end boards by Hicketts, it was a full rink-length brainfart which you are letting him off the hook for. And do those 6 PIMs mean the loss is competely on Jake, or how about the other bad plays/mistakes made by the rest of the team, that led directly to goals against? Do they all get free passes?

 

[93LEAFS]

How about Marner's dumb penalty near the end when Canada needed a goal to tie it? It's not like it was a clearing over the defensive-end boards by Hicketts, it was a full rink-length brainfart which you are letting him off the hook for. And do those 6 PIMs mean the loss is competely on Jake, or how about the other bad plays/mistakes made by the rest of the team, that led directly to goals against? Do they all get free passes?

What Marner did was dumb but it should of been matching minors considering he was cross checked and the finn embeleshed. Virtanen got 3 minors while in the attacking zone on a power play, which is one of the dumbest plays you can make in hockey, and he made 3 of those in a 30 minute span. The only excuse for getting a penalty on a power play is to stop a clear goal threat, which was not going to happen. Try to blame Marner but he was the main reason we were still in it in the third. Hicketts play was more unlucky and happened because of the strange low glass at that stadium.

Obviously the loss has to be attributed to everyone but Virtanen and Blackwood were clearly the two least valuable Canadians that day.

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

What Marner did was dumb but it should of been matching minors considering he was cross checked and the finn embeleshed. Virtanen got 3 minors while in the attacking zone on a power play, which is one of the dumbest plays you can make in hockey, and he made 3 of those in a 30 minute span. The only excuse for getting a penalty on a power play is to stop a clear goal threat, which was not going to happen. Try to blame Marner but he was the main reason we were still in it in the third. Hicketts play was more unlucky and happened because of the strange low glass at that stadium.

Obviously the loss has to be attributed to everyone but Virtanen and Blackwood were clearly the two least valuable Canadians that day.

Nobody is saying Virtanen shouldn't take his share of the blame, but what that share is, is being blown out of proportion. Once again, he only cost 1 goal (partial blame to Hicketts), but was the main cause of scoring one of Canada's. I fail to see how that really damaged the team. For the record, one of his penalties was not in the offensive zone.

As for Marner's penalty, he cost the team at the end of the game - the worst time possible. The finn "embellishing" is just a cop-out on your part. you say Marner helped the team, well Jake did too by picking off a pass and setting up Crouse. If you're serious about the Finn embellishing, then you could also claim that the Finn let go of his stick to draw the last Virtanen penalty. Jake didn't break the stick, he just knocked it out of the guy's hands...

You're also letting Hicketts off the hook for low glass? So what? it was the other end of the rink and totally unecessary. They probably don't score if not for that bad mistake.

What about Hickey falling down, leading directly to a goal?

And yes, Blackwood was not good.

 

[93LEAFS]

Nobody is saying Virtanen shouldn't take his share of the blame, but what that share is, is being blown out of proportion. Once again, he only cost 1 goal (partial blame to Hicketts), but was the main cause of scoring one of Canada's. I fail to see how that really damaged the team. For the record, one of his penalties was not in the offensive zone.

As for Marner's penalty, he cost the team at the end of the game - the worst time possible. The finn "embellishing" is just a cop-out on your part. you say Marner helped the team, well Jake did too by picking off a pass and setting up Crouse. If you're serious about the Finn embellishing, then you could also claim that the Finn let go of his stick to draw the last Virtanen penalty. Jake didn't break the stick, he just knocked it out of the guy's hands...

You're also letting Hicketts off the hook for low glass? So what? it was the other end of the rink and totally unecessary. They probably don't score if not for that bad mistake.

What about Hickey falling down, leading directly to a goal?

And yes, Blackwood was not good.

Fine, try to put it on Marner who kept us in the game. Virtanens penalties were insanely dumb hockey plays to take in the offensive zone on a powerplay. Virtanen doesn't deserve how The Province is treating him, but to say it only cost us a goal and he made it up with the play on the Crouse goal is way too simplistic. Not only was he not effective in the high scoring opportunities given (1st line powerplay duties), but cost us time on them by taking three penalties on them. I'll also agree Hickey was terrible that game.

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

Fine, try to put it on Marner who kept us in the game. Virtanens penalties where insanely dumb hockey plays to take in the offensive zone on a powerplay. Virtanen doesn't deserve how The Province is treating him, but to say it only cost us a goal and he made it up with the play on the Crouse goal is way too simplistic. Not only was he not effective in the high scoring opportunities given (1st line powerplay duties), but cost us time on them by taking three penalties on them. I'll also agree Hickey was terrible that game.

And Marner kept us out of the game at the end, with a dumb penalty - when the stakes were the highest. I'm not trying to put it on Marner, but he surely had his hands in it too. You are trying to deflect any blame for Marner's dumb play onto Jake, just because Marner scored some points? So did Virtanen, but then you say it's way too simplistic, while trying to blame the Finns for Marner's bad penalty. Laughable.

Insanely dumb? The guy stepped on Jake's stick, and the other let go of his stick(wasn't holding very tight). Both plays happen with regularity in the NHL. Give it a rest.

 

[Evolu7ion]

Tell me what penalties were worse, in the context of the game.

Penaty #1, takes the team off a crucial 5 on 3 at a pivotal part of the game.

Penalty #2 & #3, on the same play. Made the Hicketts play a 5 on 3 against, because he took TWO penalties on the same play.

Cool story indeed

So you're really sticking to your statement that Virtanen's three penalties were "literally the three worst penalties in WJC history for team Canada"? You could easily argue Marner's undisciplined penalty in the same damn game was as bad as Virtanen's second penalty... If you want to make a legitimate claim you could say his performance was most undisciplined and costly as a whole all time, but it's completely outrageous to say in the history of team Canada at the WJC no player has ever taken a penalty as bad as any one of the three Jake took.

 

[lawrence]

So you're really sticking to your statement that Virtanen's three penalties were "literally the three worst penalties in WJC history for team Canada"? You could easily argue Marner's undisciplined penalty in the same damn game was as bad as Virtanen's second penalty... If you want to make a legitimate claim you could say his performance was most undisciplined as a whole all time, but it's completely outrageous to say in the history of team Canada no player has ever taken a penalty as bad as any of the three Jake took.

nawww no man, Leafs fans will never blame Marner. Heck if Jake Virtanen was a leafs prospect they wouldn't say a damn thing.

 

[93LEAFS]

And Marner kept us out of the game at the end, with a dumb penalty - when the stakes were the highest. I'm not trying to put it on Marner, but he surely had his hands in it too. You are trying to deflect any blame for Marner's dumb play onto Jake, just because Marner scored some points? So did Virtanen, but then you say it's way too simplistic, while trying to blame the Finns for Marner's bad penalty. Laughable.

Insanely dumb? The guy stepped on Jake's stick, and the other let go of his stick(wasn't holding very tight). Both plays happen with regularity in the NHL. Give it a rest.

Virtanen cost us more than Marner did and its not even close. Virtanen also didn't get points, he got 1 point all tournament while getting top 6 minutes and 1st line pp minutes, he also took multiple dumb penalties that cost us big in the end. And i said what Marner did was dumb but he brought a lot more positives than negatives. Virtanen got drastically outproduced by Crouse who got very little power play time. Virtanen is getting over the top blame in the media, but your trying to bash others to deflect the blame on Virtanen.

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

Virtanen cost us more than Marner did and its not even close. Virtanen also didn't get points, he got 1 point all tournament while getting top 6 minutes and 1st line pp minutes, he also took multiple dumb penalties that cost us big in the end. And i said what Marner did was dumb but he brought a lot more positives than negatives. Virtanen got drastically outproduced by Crouse who got very little power play time. Virtanen is getting over the top blame in the media, but your trying to bash others to deflect the blame on Virtanen.

You're trying to put most of the blame on Virtanen. That just isn't fair. His penalties were no dumber than Marner's, and it didn't cost the team big time like you say (1 out of 6 goals, come on), because you refuse to admit others deserve blame. Sorry man, but Marners dumb penalty DID cost the team big, whether he scored earlier or not, it doesn't change the fact that he cost the team valuable minutes at THE WORST TIME. This isn't bashing others, it's simply the truth. You clear Hicketts of any blame, yet his equally dumb penalty was paramount to Jake costing the team.

You're simply bent on putting Jake down - probably to take the heat off of Marner's costly penalty. But I'm done with you. Go back to the wjc boards or your Leafs boards if you must trash on Virtanen.

 

[lawrence]

You're trying to put most of the blame on Virtanen. That just isn't fair. His penalties were no dumber than Marner's, and it didn't cost the team big time like you say (1 out of 6 goals, come on), because you refuse to admit others deserve blame. Sorry man, but Marners dumb penalty DID cost the team big, whether he scored earlier or not, it doesn't change the fact that he cost the team valuable minutes at THE WORST TIME. This isn't bashing others, it's simply the truth. You clear Hicketts of any blame, yet his equally dumb penalty was paramount to Jake costing the team.

You're simply bent on putting Jake down - probably to take the heat off of Marner's costly penalty. But I'm done with you. Go back to the wjc boards or your Leafs boards if you must trash on Virtanen.

wtf seriously? Marner was trash considering the expectations. HIm and Strome was suppose to be our "2 finns" the number 3 and 4 picks of the 2015 draft.

That said.
defence sucked.
goaltending was garbage.
our key players didn't show up, Virtanen sure (well in the eyes of hfboards.com he's a bust anyways i'm not sure what they realistically expected out of him)
Strome. 129 points 68 games in draft year.
Marner. Superstar marner. the guy that can't be blamed for anything Mitchell Marner. 126 points 63 games in draft year, were the **** were these guys??? We didn't get Tavares/ Stamkos like presense from these guys, their numbers are exceed theirs, but they didn't even show up against our rivals Americans and Swedes.
We lose to finland, on bad goaltending, bad defence, and its Jake Virtanen's fault, no wonder everyone is sick and tired with some Laffs fans hear.

Everyone has moved on. Even Oiler fans are pissed about their trolling wow!

Even if we beat the Finn's we would have gotten smoked by the Swedes. If we were lucky enough to beat those guys, the russians would have chewed apart our defence anyways, what are the Blame Virtanen clowns smoking?

 

[93LEAFS]

You're trying to put most of the blame on Virtanen. That just isn't fair. His penalties were no dumber than Marner's, and it didn't cost the team big time like you say (1 out of 6 goals, come on), because you refuse to admit others deserve blame. Sorry man, but Marners dumb penalty DID cost the team big, whether he scored earlier or not, it doesn't change the fact that he cost the team valuable minutes at THE WORST TIME. This isn't bashing others, it's simply the truth. You clear Hicketts of any blame, yet his equally dumb penalty was paramount to Jake costing the team.

You're simply bent on putting Jake down - probably to take the heat off of Marner's costly penalty. But I'm done with you. Go back to the wjc boards or your Leafs boards if you must trash on Virtanen.

I've already said Marner deserve's blame but taking 3 penalties while on the powerplay is significantly dumber than what Marner did (who only took 1 penalty and scored two goals). My whole problem is that you say Virtanen only cost us one goal (or half a goal because of Hicketts...), which is absurd because not everything happens in a vacuum. But the players most at fault for the Finland loss were Virtanen, Blackwood and Hickey. I didn't even bring Marner into the discussion, multiple others did.

 

[93LEAFS]

wtf seriously? Marner was trash considering the expectations. HIm and Strome was suppose to be our "2 finns" the number 3 and 4 picks of the 2015 draft.

That said.
defence sucked.
goaltending was garbage.
our key players didn't show up, Virtanen sure (well in the eyes of hfboards.com he's a bust anyways i'm not sure what they realistically expected out of him)
Strome. 129 points 68 games in draft year.
Marner. Superstar marner. the guy that can't be blamed for anything Mitchell Marner. 126 points 63 games in draft year, were the **** were these guys??? We didn't get Tavares/ Stamkos like presense from these guys, their numbers are exceed theirs, but they didn't even show up against our rivals Americans and Swedes.
We lose to finland, on bad goaltending, bad defence, and its Jake Virtanen's fault, no wonder everyone is sick and tired with some Laffs fans hear.

Everyone has moved on. Even Oiler fans are pissed about their trolling wow!

Even if we beat the Finn's we would have gotten smoked by the Swedes. If we were lucky enough to beat those guys, the russians would have chewed apart our defence anyways, what are the Blame Virtanen clowns smoking?

Leading the team in points.

I'm not even saying Virtanen should get all the blame and local papers are out of line ripping into a 19 year old with headlines, but its way too simplistic to say he balanced out his 3 penalties by making that interception then pass to Crouse. How is this even trolling? No one on the team except maybe Konecny and Barzal exceeded expectations for them and even without Virtanen we don't win gold due to the team being badly coached and weak goaltending.

 

[clunk]

lol this Virtanen hate is so overboard. Kid took some stupid penalties. It happens. It's hockey.. Move on.,

 

[Pyromaniac]

This discussion is pointless. It doesn't matter who was at fault.

I think the more relevant story is why exactly does Benning think that sitting on the bench is better for Virtanen than going back to junior to get meaningful minutes on what is likely to be a playoff team in Calgary.

 

[groov2]

I just wanted to point out that since Jake has returned from the WJC, he has really stepped up his game. In his first game back against Tampa Bay, I would argue that he was the Canucks best forward. He showed flashes of exactly why he was drafted at 6th. In his second game back, he scored a great game tying goal with a few minutes left.

I am making no proclamations, but I am proud of him for coming back and being one of our best players. Who woulda thunk it, after his outing at the WJC. The nationwide outcry could have really affected him negatively, but he has responded with a lot of character. It looks like he is starting to remember what made him successful in the first place. Good for him.

It is a small sample size, but a great sign nevertheless.

 

[tc 23]

I just wanted to point out that since Jake has returned from the WJC, he has really stepped up his game. In his first game back against Tampa Bay, I would argue that he was the Canucks best forward. He showed flashes of exactly why he was drafted at 6th. In his second game back, he scored a great game tying goal with a few minutes left.

I am making no proclamations, but I am proud of him for coming back and being one of our best players. Who woulda thunk it, after his outing at the WJC. The nationwide outcry could have really affected him negatively, but he has responded with a lot of character. It looks like he is starting to remember what made him successful in the first place. Good for him.

It is a small sample size, but a great sign nevertheless.

Agree. I've been as hard on Jake in recent years as anyone, but he's played well since coming back. Really hope he keeps it up and takes a sharp upward trajectory in his development to become that top-6 forward he was projected to be.

 

[Epictetus]

Doubt any prospect drafted 6th overall can live up to this status with less than 10 minutes of TOI, 10 seconds of PP time, and a coach who has HOF-caliber players in the Sedins, and a fantastic young center in Horvat, but decides to pass this opportunity over to a past-his-prime Alexandre Burrows.

I just find it unfathomable that in a lot of cases, either a team lacks a C for a W, or a W for a C, but here, the Canucks presumably have both, and yet, seemingly don't care? Are they really satisfied with never affording the opportunity to their young players of letting generational talent in the Sedins play with them? Why label the kid a bust when he hasn't even had this opportunity yet?

 

[groov2]

Doubt any prospect drafted 6th overall can live up to this status with less than 10 minutes of TOI, 10 seconds of PP time, and a coach who has HOF-caliber players in the Sedins, and a fantastic young center in Horvat, but decides to pass this opportunity over to a past-his-prime Alexandre Burrows.

I just find it unfathomable that in a lot of cases, either a team lacks a C for a W, or a W for a C, but here, the Canucks presumably have both, and yet, seemingly don't care? Are they really satisfied with never affording the opportunity to their young players of letting generational talent in the Sedins play with them? Why label the kid a bust when he hasn't even had this opportunity yet?

A fair point up until recently. Virtanen has played quite a bit with the Sedins the last two games. We'll see if that lasts.

 

[Captain Clutch]

A fair point up until recently. Virtanen has played quite a bit with the Sedins the last two games. We'll see if that lasts.

Its not likely to last, biut thats OK, he should be a top player, I'd play him on the 2nd line with Horvat but what do I know? Honestly I have rarely seen a kid who seems to attract so much negative on these boards and I'm not sure why. To me, he looks like a future James van Riemsdyk, except much more physical, which would be awesome. He may need to mature a bit but he's so incredibly toolsy; that game tying goal last night showed me that he has better hands than I even thought. I think he's going to be a really good player.

 

[yoss]

I just wanted to point out that since Jake has returned from the WJC, he has really stepped up his game. In his first game back against Tampa Bay, I would argue that he was the Canucks best forward. He showed flashes of exactly why he was drafted at 6th. In his second game back, he scored a great game tying goal with a few minutes left.

I am making no proclamations, but I am proud of him for coming back and being one of our best players. Who woulda thunk it, after his outing at the WJC. The nationwide outcry could have really affected him negatively, but he has responded with a lot of character. It looks like he is starting to remember what made him successful in the first place. Good for him.

It is a small sample size, but a great sign nevertheless.

Also annoyed Mitchell by laying the body on him all night, not to mention one of the first guys skating right into the middle of that end game scrum. Think he gave one of the Florida bottle squirters a little gloved shot to the face, which i approve of.

If he can bring both a heavy, physical game and score with somewhat relative consistency then I think him > other guys available at 6 in the more physical, grinding style of the West conf., esp. come playoff time.

Obvs. way too early to be calling it, but great goal last night. Skill move, quick hands and timely goal to say the least.

 

[champs*]

kids playing great since the WJC

 

[M2Beezy]

I just wanted to point out that since Jake has returned from the WJC, he has really stepped up his game. In his first game back against Tampa Bay, I would argue that he was the Canucks best forward. He showed flashes of exactly why he was drafted at 6th. In his second game back, he scored a great game tying goal with a few minutes left.

I am making no proclamations, but I am proud of him for coming back and being one of our best players. Who woulda thunk it, after his outing at the WJC. The nationwide outcry could have really affected him negatively, but he has responded with a lot of character. It looks like he is starting to remember what made him successful in the first place. Good for him.

It is a small sample size, but a great sign nevertheless.

Meh only two games i wanna see him do good regularly. Still not convinced

 

[VanJack]

If there was a re-draft, would the 'Nucks have taken, Fleury, Nylander, Ehlers or Ritchie ahead of Virtanen?....or would the Isles have taken Dal Colle?....hard to say, but whatever his hockey sense or lack thereof in the minds of some posters, Virtanen is an elite-level skater who is punishing on the forecheck and plays a mature two-way game....really won't know the answer I guess for two or three years at least.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

He's playing better but I'd like to see it for a longer stretch.
What really impresses me is the kids attitude. All of the blame and the over the top headline in the local rag could really hurt a young player's confidence. But he's dealt with the press and hasn't let it get him down at all.

Canadians should remember that these are teenagers over there representing their country. Some of the hate and vitriol that gets posted on the internet about these kids quite frankly makes me ashamed. It's a game folks. Entertainment. Not life and death.

 

[niguma]

Granted, I don't see him much, but is Virtanen's hockey sense as bad as it looked in Helsinki? He just seems to shoot from anywhere and not create anything. Didn't see him make any creative plays whereas Marner, Strome and Barzel were creating scoring opportunities with stickhandlin and passing.

The play seemed to die off his stick a lot. He'll fix the discipline issues, but for a first line guy playing with Strome...yeesh.