News Article: Rutherford and Johnston are staying. Both of them.

[BigBenSF*]

Perron might turn it around, but he and Winnik were both straight garbage these playoffs.

This season:

Lovejoy: 52.07 CF%
Despres: 52.26 CF%

Cole: 54.47 CF%
Bortuzzo: 53.19 CF%

You have no quantifiable metrics that justify a laughter emoticon at my contention.

Evaluating players based on a five game sample size is a great way to make completely inaccurate assertions. You must be in favor of keeping Sutter due to his "clutch" factor in the playoffs.

The Despres trade sucked. The Ehrhoff signing was stupid and unnecessary. We got poor value on the Neal trade and only managed to score more than one goal in a single game these playoffs.

Why criticize the Ehrhoff signing? He was a #2 defenseman on a great deal. It didn't work out as well as it should have because of injuries. It certainly was not a bad signing nor was it unnecessary, especially after seeing our defensive injuries at the tail end of this year. You can't say that the Neal trade was poor value when you don't know what the going rate for Neal even was. And again, you're basing your evaluations off of a five game sample size.

Maybe because they suck?

I'm not saying they don't suck, but they suck just as much as Rutherford, so why fire Rutherford when it's incredibly likely that one of the other GMs would take his place?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Eh, we did get change. The supporting cast was completely re-worked. The Neal trade. New coach, new style of play.

The problem? I'm not sure any of that worked out. The guys we brought in couldn't score at all, and our secondary scoring this year was the worst its ever been. The Neal trade...I love Hornqvist, but I'm not sure he's more valuable than Neal. Neal scored at over a PPG pace for us while here. I know it's unpopular to say since we all love Hornqvist and this team needs what he brings, but I think we lost that trade. Hornqvist was a great addition but it shouldn't have been at the cost of Neal. And obviously Spaling kinda sucks and we should have been able to at least pry a pick or something out of Nashville.

As for Mike Johnston, he isn't the worst coach ever but nor is he the answer. His style of play made us one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. Injuries or no that's inexcusable with Crosby and Malkin on board.

Went from 5th to 19th in one year.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I hate that I agree with Rossi.

I don't get why this board still insists of pretending they hate him. If someone were to post excerpts of his articles this season without attribution, they'd fall comfortably within the range of acceptable and popular opinion here.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Babcock wouldn't demote Kunitz either. I'd guarantee that.

I understand why you might say that given Babcock's personality, but I don't agree. He's not Bylsma. He will come in from the outside, look at tape, look at numbers and see a player who has lost his mojo (most likely). I don't think he would protect Kunitz at all. In fact he will probably look at guys who have been around the last few years during this playoff losing streak and purposefully kick some of them to the curb. Especially if they had more responsibility and are not cornerstone players.

 

[KIRK]

Eh, we did get change. The supporting cast was completely re-worked. The Neal trade. New coach, new style of play.

The problem? I'm not sure any of that worked out. The guys we brought in couldn't score at all, and our secondary scoring this year was the worst its ever been. The Neal trade...I love Hornqvist, but I'm not sure he's more valuable than Neal. Neal scored at over a PPG pace for us while here. I know it's unpopular to say since we all love Hornqvist and this team needs what he brings, but I think we lost that trade. Hornqvist was a great addition but it shouldn't have been at the cost of Neal. And obviously Spaling kinda sucks and we should have been able to at least pry a pick or something out of Nashville.

As for Mike Johnston, he isn't the worst coach ever but nor is he the answer. His style of play made us one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. Injuries or no that's inexcusable with Crosby and Malkin on board.

My argument is that the change was cosmetic.

Neal was an easy choice to move and then say 'see, we're changing'. But, he was never part of the family, not like Kunitz.

With respect to the family, there wasn't one hard choice made (as I said, Orpik and Nisky couldn't be kept for reasons of money, not because this organization wouldn't have resigned both if they could have).

I'm sorry, but it's one big joke. The more things changed, the more they stayed the same.

 

[PensPlz]

Can we afford Babcock when we would be paying 2 other coaches to sit at home and do nothing? Or another GM for that matter? Such a mess.

 

[KIRK]

Kunitz has a limited NTC or NMC if I remember correctly, no word on how many teams would have to be on it.

You do not remember correctly. His old deal had a limited NTC. The new one has no such restriction. Only Yohe ever suggested otherwise.

 

[canadianguy77]

I understand why you might say that given Babcock's personality, but I don't agree. He's not Bylsma. He will come in from the outside, look at tape, look at numbers and see a player who has lost his mojo (most likely). I don't think he would protect Kunitz at all. In fact he will probably look at guys who have been around the last few years during this playoff losing streak and purposefully kick some of them to the curb.

He's right. Babcock has a real vet ****-on too.

 

[Pancakes]

My argument is that the change was cosmetic.

Neal was an easy choice to move and then say 'see, we're changing'. But, he was never part of the family, not like Kunitz.

With respect to the family, there wasn't one hard choice made (as I said, Orpik and Nisky couldn't be kept for reasons of money, not because this organization wouldn't have resigned both if they could have).

I'm sorry, but it's one big joke. The more things changed, the more they stayed the same.

Yeah I know you think it was just window dressing with the changes, but I actually think they genuinely tried to change a lot about the Pens.

I guess we can debate whether the effort was made or not but I think you and I agree that the results were not there, and that virtually every move we made this off season did not pay off.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Paying 2 other coaches doesn't mean ****. It's not related to the cap so who cares. Not the billionaire owner, I can promise you that. He wants a Cup because Cup = the real money.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah I know you think it was just window dressing with the changes, but I actually think they genuinely tried to change a lot about the Pens.

I guess we can debate whether the effort was made or not but I think you and I agree that the results were not there, and that virtually every move we made this off season did not pay off.

 

[mpp9]

I understand why you might say that given Babcock's personality, but I don't agree. He's not Bylsma. He will come in from the outside, look at tape, look at numbers and see a player who has lost his mojo (most likely). I don't think he would protect Kunitz at all. In fact he will probably look at guys who have been around the last few years during this playoff losing streak and purposefully kick some of them to the curb. Especially if they had more responsibility and are not cornerstone players.

I think it's beyond nonsense to blame MJ for this season. After how many years of DB coming up short with excuse after excuse. MJ coached a good series against the Rangers. That's why we brought him here.

The forward group was ****ing awful people. Point your hatred at management that didn't draft any good ones for 8 years.

 

[BigBenSF*]

I don't get why this board still insists of pretending they hate him. If someone were to post excerpts of his articles this season without attribution, they'd fall comfortably within the range of acceptable and popular opinion here.

His analysis is decent, but it's hard to get over his consistent rumor-mongering with zero truth behind it.

 

[Darth Vitale]

He's right. Babcock has a real vet ****-on too.

I know he does but I don't think he'd just give a pass to Kunitz for an awful season, at his age, and given the cap situation. I think Babcock would let some heads roll, partly to give himself room to get what he needs on the roster, partly to send a message. Kunitz is a well liked guy who has clearly lost a step, similar to how Orpik's play fell off a cliff the last year or so before we let him go.

Could Kunitz have a mad workout summer and impress Babcock? Sure. But I wouldn't take it as a given that he'll just give him a pass if he thinks buying him out will give him other options.

 

[billybudd]

I understand why you might say that given Babcock's personality, but I don't agree. He's not Bylsma. He will come in from the outside, look at tape, look at numbers and see a player who has lost his mojo (most likely). I don't think he would protect Kunitz at all. In fact he will probably look at guys who have been around the last few years during this playoff losing streak and purposefully kick some of them to the curb. Especially if they had more responsibility and are not cornerstone players.

He didn't really do that with Cleary, Franzen, Bertuzzi...not even Draper.

I doubt he'd make Kunitz' life comfortable, but he isn't the type to bump an established vet down unless his hand is forced.

There aren't two left wings in the org good enough to force his hand with Kunitz.

 

[BigBenSF*]

I understand why you might say that given Babcock's personality, but I don't agree. He's not Bylsma. He will come in from the outside, look at tape, look at numbers and see a player who has lost his mojo (most likely). I don't think he would protect Kunitz at all. In fact he will probably look at guys who have been around the last few years during this playoff losing streak and purposefully kick some of them to the curb. Especially if they had more responsibility and are not cornerstone players.

Honestly, Babcock is the type of coach that would want to retain a Craig Adams type player. His system is amazing and his coaching is great as well, but he loves his vets. Danny Cleary is a great example. Atrocious player that all Wings fans hated, but Babcock still kept him in. I think if Babcock did come to the Pens, he certainly wouldn't be immune to criticism on here.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I think it's beyond nonsense to blame MJ for this season. After how many years of DB coming up short with excuse after excuse. MJ coached a good series against the Rangers. That's why we brought him here.

The forward group was ****ing awful people. Point your hatred at management that didn't draft any good ones for 8 years.

I don't hate Liver Eating Johnston, and I think he's an OK coach. But I'm not sure he's the coach we need on some levels. He's better than Bylsma without question simply because he's willing to change his gameplan and not be an arrogant dewsh.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

This season:

Lovejoy: 52.07 CF%
Despres: 52.26 CF%

Cole: 54.47 CF%
Bortuzzo: 53.19 CF%

You have no quantifiable metrics that justify a laughter emoticon at my contention.

No, I just watch games and realize that Lovejoy's terrible when put in a top 4 role, while Despres' size, speed, physical play and transition game helped Anaheim against a big, physical Jets team as much or more than it helped us when he was babysitting Scuds here, and would have helped us these playoffs.

Cole's been solid enough, but he isn't Despres and can't have the same impact.

Evaluating players based on a five game sample size is a great way to make completely inaccurate assertions. You must be in favor of keeping Sutter due to his "clutch" factor in the playoffs.

Lovejoy was no great shakes in the regular season either.

Why criticize the Ehrhoff signing? He was a #2 defenseman on a great deal. It didn't work out as well as it should have because of injuries. It certainly was not a bad signing nor was it unnecessary, especially after seeing our defensive injuries at the tail end of this year. You can't say that the Neal trade was poor value when you don't know what the going rate for Neal even was. And again, you're basing your evaluations off of a five game sample size.

1. Because we didn't need a PMD like Ehrhoff. We had good young defensemen out the yin-yang but logjammed them with vets like Ehrhoff, who wasn't even good for us when he did play. That money should have been used to shore up the forward ranks, which did need help.

2. Neal was a PPG, 40 goal sniper his entire time here. If we couldn't have gotten better than Hornqvist, we shouldn't have dealt him. No offense to PH.

3. It's not a 5 game sample size. Ehrhoff stunk. Despres got dealt despite playing well all year and continued to play well in Anaheim, while Lovejoy came here and played dubious hockey from Day One. We went from 5th to 19th in scoring in a single year, and we had no worse injuries this year than last.

That's not a 5 game sample size. That's a year long overview in relation to the previous year.

I'm not saying they don't suck, but they suck just as much as Rutherford, so why fire Rutherford when it's incredibly likely that one of the other GMs would take his place?

I'm living in a crazy dreamland where competent people are in charge and want to win more than hand jobs to their buds.

 

[Pancakes]

Rossi's a hack. He worshiped at the altar of Shero and Bylsma and rarely if ever said anything negative about them. Now that they're gone and Mario gave an interview to DK instead of him he hates the Penguins and posts nothing but anti Pens diatribes.

That Rossi is actually right with a lot of his articles this season is irrelevant - he's only arrived at the conclusions he's making because he wants to stick it to the Pens, just like how he was irrationally in favor of everything Shero/DB did because he liked them on a personal level.

Rossi doesn't think sit there and meaningfully analyze anything. He supported Shero/DB to a fault because he liked them, and now he's anti Pens because he feels slighted.

DK used to be fairly unbiased with his opinions. He'd form one and stick to it whether it was unpopular or not. I'm a bit perturbed by his sudden pro ownership tilt. I hope he's not becoming a schill just because they gave him that interview. DK used to be one of the good writers around town. He still posts a lot of good stuff, but I don't like the pro ownership/coaching tilt he's on now.

 

[mpp9]

I don't hate Liver Eating Johnston, and I think he's an OK coach. But I'm not sure he's the coach we need on some levels. He's better than Bylsma without question simply because he's willing to change his gameplan and not be an arrogant dewsh.

I'm not opposed to bringing in a coach with a better track record in the NHL with all the options this offseason, but people saying this is MJ's fault are just delusional.

The roster was not very good. Simple as that. Arrange the players however you like. We lose in the 1st round.

 

[Darth Vitale]

He didn't really do that with Cleary, Franzen, Bertuzzi...not even Draper.

I doubt he'd make Kunitz' life comfortable, but he isn't the type to bump an established vet down unless his hand is forced.

There aren't two left wings in the org good enough to force his hand with Kunitz.

This is a valid point but one that I hope will be addressed in FA this summer. The timing of when the coach would be hired is also important but in the end it doesn't matter -- I'm just arguing hypothetically because of all the crap DK wrote I believe the part about Rutherford and Johnston going nowhere. It's not hard to believe with this team.

Honestly, Babcock is the type of coach that would want to retain a Craig Adams type player. His system is amazing and his coaching is great as well, but he loves his vets. Danny Cleary is a great example. Atrocious player that all Wings fans hated, but Babcock still kept him in. I think if Babcock did come to the Pens, he certainly wouldn't be immune to criticism on here.

Craig Adams disappearing from the roster may be the first thing the team does -- certaintly sooner than any unexpected coaching change. Cleary... I know that situation fairly well and there are similarities to Adams. But if Babcock ever came here, Adams would already be gone.

 

[systemsgo]

You do not remember correctly. His old deal had a limited NTC. The new one has no such restriction. Only Yohe ever suggested otherwise.

Even better.

I don't get why this board still insists of pretending they hate him. If someone were to post excerpts of his articles this season without attribution, they'd fall comfortably within the range of acceptable and popular opinion here.

It's not pretense. He's posted a whole bunch of ******** articles masquerading as journalism. Why should he get a pass when all his whining suddenly starts making sense? Posting the conversation with JR was petty and childish, and all his little snarky digs at players and people in the organisation since his buddy got fired and his clear willingness to gloss over anything negative about Bylsma.

Did you forget the "article" just this season where he wrote about not watching the game? Or the one where he wrote about watching the game from the stands?

 

[plaidchuck]

Paying 2 other coaches doesn't mean ****. It's not related to the cap so who cares. Not the billionaire owner, I can promise you that. He wants a Cup because Cup = the real money.

Honestly, I think burkle only cares.about the bottom line, not so much what the team actually does. Unlike say an owner like Leonsis, I don't think he really ties his legacy to the team.

 

[tom_servo]

I really just have no opinion until I see what's done with the oldies this summer.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not opposed to bringing in a coach with a better track record in the NHL with all the options this offseason, but people saying this is MJ's fault are just delusional.

The roster was not very good. Simple as that. Arrange the players however you like. We lose in the 1st round.

The roster had its obvious faults, but his roster management left a lot to be desired.

Maybe if he hadn't been married to Kunitz on a scoring line, or Scuds on the roster, or Adams taking up a spot all year, or Bennett never seeing more than a couple shifts on a scoring line, things could have been different. Maybe we could have given a few young players a chance where the vets were consistently failing, like Burkle and Lemieux waxed last summer.