Confirmed with Link: Rutger McGroarty to Pittsburgh for Brayden Yager

[surixon]

They need more, better players. Colorado proved that again. They just skated them into the ground. Outside of Manson their D aren't exactly monsters.

With the new addition in 2 years or so they could run some combination of Schiefele, Lambert, Yager and Lowry down the middle if Lambert and Yager turn out. But with 3 right hand centers the Jets being the Jets will say the need balance and move one to the wing.

Agreed, it's much more of a talent issue for me.

 

[Al Camino]

so rutgers camp didn't give chevy an answer to why he wouldn't sign and said "it just doesn't feel right"

and this happened last year at dev camp? Did I hear that right?

Cheveldayoff said he felt this way beginning at Development Camp.

Could he have gotten more if he deals him last year when this came up?

 

[ps241]

For the scouting group on HFBoards:

Does Yager have similarity to Nick Suzuki as a comparable?

Suzuki shows as 212 lbs on NHL.com so that is a big difference but I wasn't able to see his weight at D+1 online.

I think Wyatt Johnston is probably closer comparable body type wise. Johnston is a tad taller but has that same lean build.

 

[Ossific]

and this happened last year at dev camp? Did I hear that right?


Could he have gotten more if he deals him last year when this came up?

I don't think so. I think his stock went up from having a good D+2 season in the NCAA.

 

[surixon]

and this happened last year at dev camp? Did I hear that right?


Could he have gotten more if he deals him last year when this came up?

I don't think Chevy knew about it until the end of the season. I think he meant Rutger said he started not liking the fit around then.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

As far as I'm concerned we never drafted McGroarty we drafted Jager .

Best way to look at it, for our own state of mind.

But I'm still having trouble with it. Except for not being a C, Rutger appeared to be just what the Jets needed in a bigger way than mere position. Pens apparently agreed.

Hearing Chevy say that it wasn't what we had heard about immediate NHL entry etc, but another rejection of Wpg, or the org, or both, only makes it worse.

They need C's to build around just as much as we need a 2C. Ultimately they decided they liked Rutger by a wide enough margin for them to pull the trigger - on a trade that they were not pressured to make.

All of that said, I'm happy with the return *under the circumstances*. Yager sounds like a prospect I can get excited about. But I still need a little more time to get over the disappointment of the whole effing thing.

 

[Buffdog]

Congratulations, friend, on reaching the milestone of 50,000 posts.

Thanks for everything you've contributed here over the years.

Buy yourself a big bottle of champagne to celebrate tonight.

Cheers!

At one minute per post, that's almost 835 hours (100 workdays)

And a few of those 50,000 posts have actually been good ones

Thanks for the contribution

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

There seems to be some myth going around that Groarty is some big physical specimen. He's very averaged sized especially when you take into account the game he likes to play.

It is more about that game he likes to play than just about size. And he is big enough to play that style of game. He is already listed at 205. He will probably play at about 215.

You may dismiss him as *only* average in size, but Yager is then well below average. He probably plays at about 6', 190.

 

[surixon]

It is more about that game he likes to play than just about size. And he is big enough to play that style of game. He is already listed at 205. He will probably play at about 215.

You may dismiss him as *only* average in size, but Yager is then well below average. He probably plays at about 6', 190.

That's fine, then say it's about the game style. But almost all the moaning is about getting a lot smaller, which really isn't the case.

We so have Barlow in the system that brings a lot of the same traits as McGroarty. We have Vilardi now who plays a similar style around the net and has size. We still have many of the attributes he brings to the table on the team and in the system.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yager is 19 years old, and he's 6'0. He'll fill out

It's not like he's Nic Petan

That's not the point. It isn't that Yager is so small that he can't play in the NHL. Size won't likely hold him back. It is that Jets are getting smaller when they were already probably too small. McGro would have brought something Jets are seriously lacking.

Matthew Tkachuk is listed on EP as 6'2, 201. 1 inch taller and 4 lbs lighter than McGro. Everybody is so impressed by the in-your-face game that Tkachuk plays but downplaying the loss of that in McGro.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

McGroarty isn't a great skater and it's a speed game now. A number of players in the NHL have elected to trim down to get faster. Adam Lowry on our team is one such example.

It's why I'm saying focusing on weight might not be a great idea as player weight fluctuates based on what the player feels he needs to accomplish.

Again, changing narrative - not necessarily you, but many. McGro's skating was not a strength when he was drafted. HFJets, he's not fast but he's fast enough. Followed by, he has improved his skating. It is at least avg now, if not better. Followed by, it will continue to improve. Followed by he is not fast enough for today's speed based game.

McGroarty plays a physically aggressive game that Jets lack, outside of Lowry. We needed that. We have lost that. Pens just traded their best prospect, even though they were under no pressure, to get exactly that.

 

[Aries56]

After seeing all the poor skaters last year (Monahan, Vilardi, Toffoli).. I'm on board with having a faster player, and he'll fill out.

If he needs up to 200 lbs, he would be the same size as MacKinnon. That's a great stature for a forward playing in the current NHL. Big enough to push back against larger players, still small and quick enough to be shifty offensively.

 

[surixon]

Again, changing narrative - not necessarily you, but many. McGro's skating was not a strength when he was drafted. HFJets, he's not fast but he's fast enough. Followed by, he has improved his skating. It is at least avg now, if not better. Followed by, it will continue to improve. Followed by he is not fast enough for today's speed based game.

McGroarty plays a physically aggressive game that Jets lack, outside of Lowry. We needed that. We have lost that. Pens just traded their best prospect, even though they were under no pressure, to get exactly that.

No pressure? They have a tonne of pressure to win now. One of the reasons they traded for McGroarty is he's ready now and they need to win to keep Crosby and Co happy and in Sid's case wanting to reup. They don't have time to wait on prospects who are a bit longer out.

From what I've seen his skating is nowhere near average.

You are free to your opinion and I get you like him a lot as a prospect. I disagree on why we lose and what we need to win.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's fine, then say it's about the game style. But almost all the moaning is about getting a lot smaller, which really isn't the case.

We so have Barlow in the system that brings a lot of the same traits as McGroarty. We have Vilardi now who plays a similar style around the net and has size. We still have many of the attributes he brings to the table on the team and in the system.

Yes, it is about the game style, not simply size. But a player needs muscle to play that game style. I disagree that we are not getting smaller. It really is the case.

I don't think Barlow is that similar. Neither is Vilardi. Barlow doesn't have the size. Vilardi doesn't have the aggressiveness.

None of this topic means that I don't like Yager, or that I don't think he is a good return - under the circumstances. But I think we will probably have lost in on the ice effectiveness. That is not a criticism of Chevy's work here. Again - circumstances.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I care 0 about the size of a prospect. Just get good players and figure it out later. The Jets problems over the years have had nothing to do with lack of size.

 

[SUX2BU]

At one minute per post, that's almost 835 hours (100 workdays)

And a few of those 50,000 posts have actually been good ones

Thanks for the contribution

and half have been in arguments with Mort ...........

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No pressure? They have a tonne of pressure to win now. One of the reasons they traded for McGroarty is he's ready now and they need to win to keep Crosby and Co happy and in Sid's case wanting to reup. They don't have time to wait on prospects who are a bit longer out.

From what I've seen his skating is nowhere near average.

You are free to your opinion and I get you like him a lot as a prospect. I disagree on why we lose and what we need to win.

Certainly not the kind of pressure Chevy had.

Honestly, I think last season was the end of their attempt at 'win now'. They would be foolish to think they can still get better with their big 3 being another year older when they weren't good enough last year. And they would be foolish to think that McGro is ready to be a difference maker as a rookie. He is probably NHL ready - at a rookie level. So at least another year before he could contribute to a rebound and their big 3 being one more year older.

I mostly agree with you on why we lose and what we need to win. In this case I am not making the argument that we are too soft and that we need to get bigger, tougher, meaner. Though I do think we need SOME of that. What I see in McGro that I think we need is the aggressiveness. It does take some muscle to play that way.

I don't keep a DB of statements that people make here but I'm pretty sure I have seen you post about McGro's skating having improved and having been acceptable to begin with. Of course I could be misremembering. I can't quote you from any particular post.

 

[10Ducky10]

Last season the Jets had the 5th tallest team and the 14th heaviest team.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This team had been among the biggest and heaviest for years now. I'm sick of hearing about being small and physically soft.

If anything this team has been mentally soft in the playoffs.

OK, yes. Fits my impression of what McGroarty would have helped fix.

Jets have had size in the past and have played a heavy game. At one point I think they were big and fast. They have gradually gotten both smaller and slower.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

and this happened last year at dev camp? Did I hear that right?


Could he have gotten more if he deals him last year when this came up?

Hard to relate that to what we saw and heard from him at dev camp last year.

He said that this year around draft time was the first he'd heard of it.

After seeing all the poor skaters last year (Monahan, Vilardi, Toffoli).. I'm on board with having a faster player, and he'll fill out.

If he needs up to 200 lbs, he would be the same size as MacKinnon. That's a great stature for a forward playing in the current NHL. Big enough to push back against larger players, still small and quick enough to be shifty offensively.

Scouting reports on Yager say skating is not among his strengths either.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

About a month ago I went back and watched a bunch of the Colorado series. We didn't need to be heavier or taller. We needed a defensive pairing that could handle the middlestat line. Dylan Samberg really really struggled after Dillon got injured. When that happened Stanley played too much. Perhaps Heinola can improve this but probably not radically this year.

We have a great young group of forwards, centres and wingers now. We drafted Freij which is a good start. We need defenceman with skill and that can skate.

Hellebuyck needs to improve in spring as well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

and half have been in arguments with Mort ...........

Surixon and I never argue. We discuss.

 

[snowkiddin]

Surixon and I never argue. We discuss.

Well, personally, I came to have an argument today.

 

[surixon]

Certainly not the kind of pressure Chevy had.

Honestly, I think last season was the end of their attempt at 'win now'. They would be foolish to think they can still get better with their big 3 being another year older when they weren't good enough last year. And they would be foolish to think that McGro is ready to be a difference maker as a rookie. He is probably NHL ready - at a rookie level. So at least another year before he could contribute to a rebound and their big 3 being one more year older.

I mostly agree with you on why we lose and what we need to win. In this case I am not making the argument that we are too soft and that we need to get bigger, tougher, meaner. Though I do think we need SOME of that. What I see in McGro that I think we need is the aggressiveness. It does take some muscle to play that way.

I don't keep a DB of statements that people make here but I'm pretty sure I have seen you post about McGro's skating having improved and having been acceptable to begin with. Of course I could be misremembering. I can't quote you from any particular post.

It's improved but still a weakness imo.

I think you've misread the situation in Pittsburgh. Their new ownership group that paid around a billion for the team axed their previous management team due to pitching a rebuild.

You don't make moves for Karalsson if the plan is to rebuild for instance.

I Imagine Crosby is gone if you elect to pull the plug and I imagine he's still worth 10's of millions a year to the franchise in terms of revenue.

At the end of the day its a business and the Pens ownership have no interest in rebuilding and suffering losses after what they ponyed up.

As a cap strapped team with shallow forward depth a player like McGroarty that can slide up down the lineup is probably very appealing.

Imo the fact that the deal happened now is proof that there was pressure on Dubas to make the trade. With college and rookie camps starting soon he ran out of time trying to wait Chevy out. I agree Chevy had more pressure but he seems to thrive in these situations.

FWIW i agree that the Pens window has slammed shut, but I think the players still belive they can and they still generate a lot of cash for the owners so they are staying invested.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

the OP was saying Yager is top on the Pens pool but just being on top of a bad pool doesn't solely showcase their ranking across the league. Affiliated prospects, which is what you posted, is more reflective of the prospect tier rather than team rankings b/c some teams have v bad pools, like the Pens. so easier to stand out. McGroarty for instance will be #1 on the Pens pool.

there's a variety of different sources on affiliated prospects, it seems like McGroarty and Yager are usually 20-30 spots from each other

ie: Elitepropect released a top-100 a week ago, Yager was 85th Rutger was 56th. so a 29 spot difference. Rutger was 33rd and Yager was 58th in Athletic's (25 spots). not sure which one is better but seems like the disparity is similar.

don't want to get this misconstrued as shitting on Yager, this is essentially the trade i had pegged out in June for McGroarty. a prospect, or draft pick of roughly equivalent selection spot.

Its to be expected when comparing two prospects drafted a year apart at the exact spot (14th), that the older prospect will be ranked higher. A year from today Yager will find himself moving up 30 positions simply based off prospects graduating from the prospect list.

Even if McGroarty hadn’t refused to sign, this would have been graded an even hockey trade. The fact Chevy had his hand forced and was still able to pull this deal off should be something to be applauded, particularly with the Jets being in win now mode with a dirth of established NHL wingers that Rutger was behind on the depth chart.

Rutger will become an RFA at in 2027 whereas Yagers ELC will slide and won’t become an RFA until 2028. That alone has value. The Jets can run back last years team that was first overall in January (minus Dillon and Broissoit) without having to worry about waiving or trading a forward asset, and delayed an RFA deal by a year, got a younger asset, one with a higher ceiling and traded from a position of strength (wing) for one of need (centre). The organization now has a right shooting centre prospect with tremendous upside that will enter the NHL just as Scheifele begins to regress.

All in all a great day for the Jets organization.