Speculation: Russo: Minnesota's Offseason Plan to Add Scoring

[Hockeyfan200]

We may offer sheet Rossi. Not sure yet, many candidates available to OS

Minnesota has plenty of cap. They would have to offer 9 to 10 mil that Rossi is asking for to get MN not to match. lol

 

[BagHead]

So valuable that Billy G is looking to trade his only young center. Super valuable.

I did say Rakell and mentioned the "gluttony of draft picks". But the Pens 2026 1st (unprotected) is not what will be added, but you know that. As much as I wouldn't mind adding Rossi, it's certainly not at that expense because he has no where near that kind of value. If the Rangers 1st falls to 2026, I could see Rakell + Rangers 2026 1st top 15 protected.

He may not have a future on this team in Guerin's vision, but he would for most Wild fans if they were the decision makers, and Wild fans are the people you're engaging with here. Funnily enough, you were responding to the one who has been the most bearish on Rossi on the Wild board for the last week, and even he strongly disagreed with your Rakell proposal. Rossi has done nothing but improve year-after-year through hard work and dedication, and still has youth on his side, I would be a little surprised if he's not better than Rakell as soon as 2 years from now, if not by the start of next season.

 

[SEALBound]

He may not have a future on this team in Guerin's vision, but he would for most Wild fans if they were the decision makers, and Wild fans are the people you're engaging with here. Funnily enough, you were responding to the one who has been the most bearish on Rossi on the Wild board for the last week, and even he strongly disagreed with your Rakell proposal. Rossi has done nothing but improve year-after-year through hard work and dedication, and still has youth on his side, I would be a little surprised if he's not better than Rakell as soon as 2 years from now, if not by the start of next season.

This would be a good reply or argument if my proposal was merely "Rossi for Rakell, 1:1". But it wasn't. Ever.

 

[AKL]

This would be a good reply or argument if my proposal was merely "Rossi for Rakell, 1:1". But it wasn't. Ever.

Cut your losses and move on. The problem that you don't seem to be understanding is that a 32 year old winger for a 23 year old center is not a good starting point. It doesn't matter if you add a late 1st to it. It's not good.

 

[BagHead]

This would be a good reply or argument if my proposal was merely "Rossi for Rakell, 1:1". But it wasn't. Ever.

You never actually said which draft pick, but named Rakell outright, which seems to suggest that Rakell is the intended centerpiece. If the pick is a mid to late 1st, that's typically a bottom-6 forward 4-5 years in the future, if it pans out at all. Unless you're suggesting the Pen's own 1st, Rakell is the centerpiece by default. I just don't see how it can be otherwise, but I'm open to hearing you out if you will provide details.

I should probably add that most of us don't want to see Rossi traded unless it's for an upgrade at his position, not for more parts. Obviously, that makes it very difficult for us to see any reasonable trade targets, as great centers rarely become available.

 

[SEALBound]

You never actually said which draft pick, but named Rakell outright, which seems to suggest that Rakell is the intended centerpiece. If the pick is a mid to late 1st, that's typically a bottom-6 forward 4-5 years in the future, if it pans out at all. Unless you're suggesting the Pen's own 1st, Rakell is the centerpiece by default. I just don't see how it can be otherwise, but I'm open to hearing you out if you will provide details.

Well, I mean...yes? The entire thread is centered around "the Wild want to add scoring", thus I offered up a top 6 wing who about to pot 35+ who is on a very good value contract. I also said that we have a gluttony of picks which Dubas has directly said he would like to use to acquire young talent. I also said in addition to getting Rakell, you could use the new found picks on additional trades to bring in more scoring. The idea here would be the addition of the picks or even prospects would even out the value. Retorting "Pens 26 unprotected 1st" was a little ridiculous being that pick is likely a lottery pick. That 1st, right now, is worth more than Rossi is, so that's an obvious no.

My proposal would start out something like Rakell+Rangers 1st (2025 = greater than 13ov, 2026 = maybe top 5 protected?)+25 3rd+26 2nd for Rossi+propsect that has the value of a 3rd? That helps repair the missing draft capital quite a bit which can be used on others or you can just take them. I used the Jiricek trade as a base. I would also entertain exchanging one of those picks for a current prospect. I would say McGroarty is probably off the table if Rakell is going the other way but we can talk Hallander, Ponomarov, Poulin, or a dman like Pieniniemi.

I think Minny is in a tough position wanting to trade him because he's your top line center who is also 5'9. You're likely not getting a 1C back which is why it's strange that Billy G would do this at all but maybe some of your recent 1st and 2nd rounders are going to be available soon?

 

[AKL]

Rossi has 10 less goals and 8 less points than Rakell. That doesn't help our scoring. That's a tiny increase. Then consider that this is basically a career year for Rakell, at age 31, playing almost exclusively with Sidney Crosby. He's not going to get better after this, Rossi will.

Just because the Wild might trade Rossi, doesn't mean they're going to trade him for just anything you have that you're willing to part with.

It was a bad idea, doubling down on defending it is worse. The team that gets Rossi will either have a similar age/caliber player to swap, or a better center to give us. Not Rickard Rakell lol.

 

[BagHead]

Well, I mean...yes? The entire thread is centered around "the Wild want to add scoring", thus I offered up a top 6 wing who about to pot 35+ who is on a very good value contract. I also said that we have a gluttony of picks which Dubas has directly said he would like to use to acquire young talent. I also said in addition to getting Rakell, you could use the new found picks on additional trades to bring in more scoring. The idea here would be the addition of the picks or even prospects would even out the value. Retorting "Pens 26 unprotected 1st" was a little ridiculous being that pick is likely a lottery pick. That 1st, right now, is worth more than Rossi is, so that's an obvious no.

My proposal would start out something like Rakell+Rangers 1st (2025 = greater than 13ov, 2026 = maybe top 5 protected?)+25 3rd+26 2nd for Rossi+propsect that has the value of a 3rd? That helps repair the missing draft capital quite a bit which can be used on others or you can just take them. I used the Jiricek trade as a base. I would also entertain exchanging one of those picks for a current prospect. I would say McGroarty is probably off the table if Rakell is going the other way but we can talk Hallander, Ponomarov, Poulin, or a dman like Pieniniemi.

I think Minny is in a tough position wanting to trade him because he's your top line center who is also 5'9. You're likely not getting a 1C back which is why it's strange that Billy G would do this at all but maybe some of your recent 1st and 2nd rounders are going to be available soon?

Thanks for fleshing it out for me. Yeah, I can see where you're coming from, I just don't think Wild fans will agree with doing that. Guerin might, though, which is why most of us are not super thrilled with his vision for Rossi.

I'm totally with you on the last couple sentences. Trading Rossi only really makes sense for the Wild if it's for a strict upgrade, and one that they'll have access to for at least 4-5 years. I understand that Guerin may have started to think the team needs more size in its top-6 (it does), but I'm not sure moving Rossi is the smartest way to obtain it. They might be better served by searching for a larger top-6 winger than Zuccarello in free agency once his contract is over.

And yeah, Yurov is going to be in America next year, and some believe he'll be placed into the lineup as the 2nd line center. I think that's remarkably (even naively) optimistic, to think he'll thrive in that role right away, but I think that's what the plan might be.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Let's just call Rakell + NYR 1st 'Plan R'.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Let's not be delusional about Rossi having the value of more than two 1sts, particularly if one of them is a high 1st.

I am aware that Rossi does not have similar value to Rust.
He has similar value to Rakell, who is a better player than Rust.

What are you smoking?

So valuable that Billy G is looking to trade his only young center. Super valuable.

I did say Rakell and mentioned the "gluttony of draft picks". But the Pens 2026 1st (unprotected) is not what will be added, but you know that. As much as I wouldn't mind adding Rossi, it's certainly not at that expense because he has no where near that kind of value. If the Rangers 1st falls to 2026, I could see Rakell + Rangers 2026 1st top 15 protected.

I was being purposefully facetious including the Penguins 1st in Gavin McKenna’s draft. I thought it was obvious.

Why would Minnesota trade Rossi in a deal where the most appealing piece in return is a mid to late 1st? The whole point is to upgrade the top 6 and the reason Rossi’s name is coming up is due to his pending RFA status and our GM being a jackass against smaller players.

 

[SEALBound]

Rossi has 10 less goals and 8 less points than Rakell. That doesn't help our scoring. That's a tiny increase. Then consider that this is basically a career year for Rakell, at age 31, playing almost exclusively with Sidney Crosby. He's not going to get better after this, Rossi will.

Just because the Wild might trade Rossi, doesn't mean they're going to trade him for just anything you have that you're willing to part with.

It was a bad idea, doubling down on defending it is worse. The team that gets Rossi will either have a similar age/caliber player to swap, or a better center to give us. Not Rickard Rakell lol.

That's fine if you don't like my proposal. That's what discussion boards are for. But I do think you're out to lunch a bit with that last line. Why is a team giving you a better center for Rossi? Rossi just doesn't hold that kind of value quite honestly .

Thanks for fleshing it out for me. Yeah, I can see where you're coming from, I just don't think Wild fans will agree with doing that. Guerin might, though, which is why most of us are not super thrilled with his vision for Rossi.

I'm totally with you on the last couple sentences. Trading Rossi only really makes sense for the Wild if it's for a strict upgrade, and one that they'll have access to for at least 4-5 years. I understand that Guerin may have started to think the team needs more size in its top-6 (it does), but I'm not sure moving Rossi is the smartest way to obtain it. They might be better served by searching for a larger top-6 winger than Zuccarello in free agency once his contract is over.

And yeah, Yurov is going to be in America next year, and some believe he'll be placed into the lineup as the 2nd line center. I think that's remarkably (even naively) optimistic, to think he'll thrive in that role right away, but I think that's what the plan might be.

Good reply, thanks for the discussion.

Let's just call Rakell + NYR 1st 'Plan R'.

Reading is hard.

 

[AKL]

Why is a team giving you a better center for Rossi? Rossi just doesn't hold that kind of value quite honestly .

Because we're adding to Rossi to get him. Sorry, I figured that should be clear.

 

[AKL]

And actually, after thinking about it more, if either Crosby was out for most of this season, or Kaprizov wasn't, Rossi would be outscoring Rakell right now anyway. So the minimal edge in scoring Rakell has on Rossi at this time isn't even legit.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Reading is hard.

Also optional.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

What are you smoking?

You are both overvaluing Rossi and undervaluing Rakell here.

I was being purposefully facetious including the Penguins 1st in Gavin McKenna’s draft. I thought it was obvious.

Why would Minnesota trade Rossi in a deal where the most appealing piece in return is a mid to late 1st? The whole point is to upgrade the top 6 and the reason Rossi’s name is coming up is due to his pending RFA status and our GM being a jackass against smaller players.

The most appealing piece in the return would be Rakell. You know, your Top 6 upgrade.
Alternatively, you could just give us the 1st + for Rakell and trade Rossi for a similar player elsewhere. But nonetheless, the fact remains that Rakell is worth a 1st + and Rossi is not worth much more than that.

 

[AKL]

You are both overvaluing Rossi and undervaluing Rakell here.

I think not wanting to trade our 23 year old 2C for your 32 year old 2W probably isn't "overvaluing Rossi and undervaluing Rakell"

The most appealing piece in the return would be Rakell. You know, your Top 6 upgrade.

Except you're missing the "top 6 upgrade" part of the top 6 upgrade. Trading Rossi for Rakell is a lateral move at best in the short term, and downgrades our top 6 significantly in the long term.

You're trying so hard to be right about what the secondary piece value of a Rossi for Rakell swap is, you're missing the forest for the trees. Rossi for Rakell doesn't work as a base. The secondary piece doesn't matter.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

You are both overvaluing Rossi and undervaluing Rakell here.

The most appealing piece in the return would be Rakell. You know, your Top 6 upgrade.
Alternatively, you could just give us the 1st + for Rakell and trade Rossi for a similar player elsewhere. But nonetheless, the fact remains that Rakell is worth a 1st + and Rossi is not worth much more than that.

lol, Rossi is

 

[OtherThingsILike]

I think not wanting to trade our 23 year old 2C for your 32 year old 2W probably isn't "overvaluing Rossi and undervaluing Rakell"

I think saying that 'this trade is not what Minnesota is looking for' is different than saying 'this trade is not a trade of players of similar value'.
Not wanting to trade a center for a winger or a younger player for an older player is fine. Pretending that this means that Rossi has more trade value than he has or that Rakell has less trade value than he has is what I'm taking issue with.

Except you're missing the "top 6 upgrade" part of the top 6 upgrade. Trading Rossi for Rakell is a lateral move at best in the short term, and downgrades our top 6 significantly in the long term.

Not likely. Rakell will probably be outscoring Rossi for the duration of Rakell's current contract.
The benefit of Rossi is that he's younger and has more room to grow, not that he's as good as Rakell is in the short term.

You're trying so hard to be right about what the secondary piece value of a Rossi for Rakell swap is, you're missing the forest for the trees. Rossi for Rakell doesn't work as a base. The secondary piece doesn't matter.

It does matter, when comparing player values.

 

[AKL]

I think saying that 'this trade is not what Minnesota is looking for' is different than saying 'this trade is not a trade of players of similar value'.
Not wanting to trade a center for a winger or a younger player for an older player is fine. Pretending that this means that Rossi has more trade value than he has or that Rakell has less trade value than he has is what I'm taking issue with.

Not likely. Rakell will probably be outscoring Rossi for the duration of Rakell's current contract.
The benefit of Rossi is that he's younger and has more room to grow, not that he's as good as Rakell is in the short term.

It does matter, when comparing player values.

Except Rossi does have more value because of his age and position and his room to grow

And he was just outscoring Rakell a mere month ago

 

[57special]

Incredibly disingenuous of Pens fans on here pretending that age doesn't factor into trade value, especially when talking about 9 years, which is a lifetime in hockey.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Except Rossi does have more value because of his age and position and his room to grow

He does have more value. But not significantly more value.

And he was just outscoring Rakell a mere month ago

I don't know that 'Rossi only has 3 points in the month of March' is helping your case here.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Incredibly disingenuous of Pens fans on here pretending that age doesn't factor into trade value, especially when talking about 9 years, which is a lifetime in hockey.

Age does factor into trade value. It's why the Wild will be able to get a 1st + for a center who is only 5'9".
However, it's incredibly disingenuous for anyone to pretend that age is the only factor in trade value.

 

[AKL]

I don't know that 'Rossi only has 3 points in the month of March' is helping your case here.

I don't know that I'm ready to put more emphasis on the most recent 12 games than the 60 before, like you are, but I guess that's why I'll never be as good of a hockey mind as you are.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

I don't know that I'm ready to put more emphasis on the most recent 12 games than the 60 before, like you are,

As a general rule, defenses get tighter as the season progresses.

but I guess that's why I'll never be as good of a hockey mind as you are.

Hey, finally, something you said in this thread that's correct!

 

[Luceni]

I think Pens & Wild don't match well as tradepartners as long as the centerpiece of a potential Rossi trade would be Rakell. Simply because of age, positional value and timetable both teams are in.

A similar counteroffer from Minnesotas side would probably be a deal including Zuccharello or Brodin or Spurgeon and a pick/prospect for Rakell. This is just an example for you Pens fans that the centerpiece of a trade needs to fit, regardless of pick/prospect as sweetener.

Rakell for Rossi does not work, imo.