GDT: Russia Vs USA - 12/25 - 9:30 PM ET - TSN/NHLN

[Pavel Buchnevich]

LOL!!!!! Yes. I must have a grudge. I can't just have another opinion.

Not that it matters, but I agree with you. These people saying you have a grudge against Caufield are mad that you aren’t praising their team’s pick.

Caufield had a good shift or two, along with an assist, but he really gave nothing in the way of puck support, winning battles, cycling, helping on tie ups, getting to the net. Those were general problems with the whole forward group.

And that’s not necessarily his game, so I’m not saying Caufield needs to become a different player, but he does need to at least do a little better in those areas. Unless you are a Kane level winger talent, you gotta play a little more well rounded. Habs fans are only looking at the scoresheet and a few nice shifts. Caufield generally struggled in this game.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

If I am the USA staff I am not overly concerned. The goaltender mishandling pucks, Russians stretching behind the D, goaltender not stopping pucks, breakouts to the pocket where the center isn't ready....all can be addressed.

I remember when Jimmy Howard was the guy for the USA and he sucked hard, leaving the net for Bobby Goepfert. I would let Wolf play and not look back at this point. USA will be heard from in this event, I also liked the Russians puck control. You have to give the Jackets credit...Chinakhov is a steal... he's got it all.

It wasn't the U.S. at it's best and with some adjustments I think they can still compete for gold. Knight needs to be on a short leash and Leaman needs to adapt with the personnel he has. I'm hoping for a more complete effort against Austria today.

 

[Rubi]

I would define "better" as the team that would be expected to win, and that is a by a good margin the NCAA teams. There really isn't any question about that.

If you want to more narrowly argue that the shot difficulty that Wolf faces in the WHL is harder than the shot difficulty Knight faces in Hockey East, I don't have an obvious answer to that question, but I can give you a couple reasons why Knight would be the one facing better shooters.

1) There's more total future NHLers in the CHL but the talent of the CHL is evenly diluted across 60 teams, with the OHL having a disproportionate number of the best scorers. In the NCAA the talent is concentrated in the Big Ten and in Hockey East.

Not true. In the 2019 NHL draft, 28 WHL players were drafted and 7 were taken in the first round. In that same draft, there were 25 OHL players taken and 4 were taken in the first round.

2) The CHL is mostly teenagers with significantly less power, and that matters for everything including shooting.

Then you would expect the top scorers in the CHL to have the most powerful shots.... which isn't correct. There's a lot more to scoring than how hard you can shoot the puck.

If I were to bet on who would win in a shoot out against 20 of the best players in each league. I'll put my money on the 2020 CHL Goalie of the Year (Wolf) going against the top 20 NCAA Hockey East players than Knight going up against the top 20 WHL players.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It's odd people have this impression. Vasilevsky had better numbers at pretty much all levels.

But you forgot Vasilevskiy isn’t actually any good and must be the luckiest hockey player ever to always manage his way onto good teams.

 

[ORRFForever]

Not that it matters, but I agree with you. These people saying you have a grudge against Caufield are mad that you aren’t praising their team’s pick.

Caufield had a good shift or two, along with an assist, but he really gave nothing in the way of puck support, winning battles, cycling, helping on tie ups, getting to the net. Those were general problems with the whole forward group.

And that’s not necessarily his game, so I’m not saying Caufield needs to become a different player, but he does need to at least do a little better in those areas. Unless you are a Kane level winger talent, you gotta play a little more well rounded. Habs fans are only looking at the scoresheet and a few nice shifts. Caufield generally struggled in this game.

Well said.

 

[Fisticuffer]

It was a good game. Probably could have gone either way. I wonder if the U.S does some line juggling for the next one. Maybe try Zegras with different line mates.

 

[Rubi]

It wasn't the U.S. at it's best and with some adjustments I think they can still compete for gold. Knight needs to be on a short leash and Leaman needs to adapt with the personnel he has. I'm hoping for a more complete effort against Austria today.

I think politics is going to play a larger part in any decisions than most fans would like. Team USA management WANTS Knight to succeed and they will give him every opportunity to do so. The last thing they want to do is have Wolf take over and then have to pump the WHL/CHL tires. Its no coincidence that out of the 25 player USA roster only 3 play in the CHL. USA Hockey wants American players playing in the States instead of going to the CHL to play. You do that by pumping the tires of NCAA players.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You might want to tel your boy to play better. Nothing against him. I’d take him over any prospect on the ice right now, but he needs to step up. Brink has made some good plays over the ice, drew a penalty and probably should have a goal. He’s doing well in his role.

I think you are being generous. He didn’t really do much drawing of that penalty. The Russian player made a lazy stick play 200 feet from his own net. And while I guess Brink somehow got an assist on that goal, I didn’t think he had much actual involvement. Somehow Brink got a point on that play and Berard who actually did the bothering of the goalie on that play didn’t. Shows how much points actually mean sometimes, very little at times.

Maybe I’m just not rational on this discussion. I try to root for all our players and give them the benefit of the doubt, but the way Brink plays really bothers me.

He’s really perimeter for a guy whose very small and slow. And his ability with the puck seems more KHL first liner than NHL top six forward. Maybe that’s because I watch the KHL and see so many Bobby Brink’s in that league who never quite made it at the NHL level.

I hope he proves me wrong and makes key plays in this tournament, but I just don’t think he can be relied on in big games where the intensity is high. I think he doesn’t really bring anything in those games outside of the PP.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

I think you are being generous. He didn’t really do much drawing of that penalty. The Russian player made a lazy stick play 200 feet from his own net. And while I guess Brink somehow got an assist on that goal, I didn’t think he had much actual involvement. Somehow Brink got a point on that play and Berard who actually did the bothering of the goalie on that play didn’t. Shows how much points actually mean sometimes, very little at times.

Maybe I’m just not rational on this discussion. I try to root for all our players and give them the benefit of the doubt, but the way Brink plays really bothers me.

He’s really perimeter for a guy whose very small and slow. And his ability with the puck seems more KHL first liner than NHL top six forward. Maybe that’s because I watch the KHL and see so many Bobby Brink’s in that league who never quite made it at the NHL level.

I hope he proves me wrong and makes key plays in this tournament, but I just don’t think he can be relied on in big games where the intensity is high. I think he doesn’t really bring anything in those games outside of the PP.

I thought he played fine. I don’t disagree with your assessment of his game, but I think he produces more than you’re giving him credit for. I might be a little too high in him from the u18s a few year back where I thought he was really good.

 

[majormajor]

Not true. In the 2019 NHL draft, 28 WHL players were drafted and 7 were taken in the first round. In that same draft, there were 25 OHL players taken and 4 were taken in the first round..

It was certainly true that the top scorers in 2019-20 were disproportionally in the OHL, and that they boasted more high draftees.

Then you would expect the top scorers in the CHL to have the most powerful shots.... which isn't correct. There's a lot more to scoring than how hard you can shoot the puck.

Are you really trying to argue to me that goal scoring ability doesn't develop over the years 18-21? That players merely get stronger at physical contests on the boards while their goal scoring ability doesn't change? They get stronger which helps their shooting, they get smarter which helps their scoring, and they improve their technique as well.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I think politics is going to play a larger part in any decisions than most fans would like. Team USA management WANTS Knight to succeed and they will give him every opportunity to do so. The last thing they want to do is have Wolf take over and then have to pump the WHL/CHL tires. Its no coincidence that out of the 25 player USA roster only 3 play in the CHL. USA Hockey wants American players playing in the States instead of going to the CHL to play. You do that by pumping the tires of NCAA players.

I think you're reaching a bit where the goaltending is concerned. Knight is the presumed #1 and has the pedigree but I don't think for an instant that they won't turn the crease over to Wolf if he's the better option.

 

[Rubi]

It was certainly true that the top scorers in 2019-20 were disproportionally in the OHL, and that they boasted more high draftees.

In the 2020 draft 28 WHL players were taken and 31 OHL players were taken. Both leagues had 7 players taken in the 1st round.

2019 NHL Draft: 28 WHL players selected, including seven in the first round
2018 NHL Draft: 20 WHL players selected, including two in the first round
2017 NHL Draft: 33 WHL players selected, including seven in the first round
2016 NHL Draft: 34 WHL players selected, including four in the first round
2015 NHL Draft: 35 WHL players selected, including five in the first round
2014 NHL Draft: 37 WHL players selected, including nine in the first round
2013 NHL Draft: 33 WHL players selected, including eight in the first round
2012 NHL Draft: 32 WHL players selected, including six in the first round
2011 NHL Draft: 33 WHL players selected, including five in the first round
2010 NHL Draft: 43 WHL players selected, including seven in the first round
2009 NHL Draft: 31 WHL players selected, including five in the first round
2008 NHL Draft: 37 WHL players selected, including nine in the first round

Are you really trying to argue to me that goal scoring ability doesn't develop over the years 18-21? That players merely get stronger at physical contests on the boards while their goal scoring ability doesn't change? They get stronger which helps their shooting, they get smarter which helps their scoring, and they improve their technique as well.

Yes. If the Gold medal was on the line and it was a shootout I would go with the top 20 WHL scorers than the top 20 scorers in the NCAA Hockey East... no question. WHL talent is way better than Hockey East talent. Its a rare occasion that a star comes out of Hockey East.... former WHL players who are/were stars are a dime a dozen.

 

[Rubi]

I think you're reaching a bit where the goaltending is concerned. Knight is the presumed #1 and has the pedigree but I don't think for an instant that they won't turn the crease over to Wolf if he's the better option.

Based on performance in the two games played, Wolf is the better option... yet I still think Team USA will give Knight yet another chance to redeem himself.

 

[Lambo]

Its a very regular occurrence for TSN or any sports highlight show for that matter, to leave out empty net goals.

Judging by your complete shock and rage at your new discovery of this absolute tragedy to the game, you are really going to blow your top when one day you also notice that they actually leave out goals scored on goalies at times as well.

Maybe! I don t look very often Tsn. Normally in Europe and NHL Broatcast i see empty net goals in coverage.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Maybe! I don t look very often Tsn. Normally in Europe and NHL Broatcast i see empty net goals in coverage.

The TSN highlight package on the website does have the empty net goal in it by the way.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Based on performance in the two games played, Wolf is the better option... yet I still think Team USA will give Knight yet another chance to redeem himself.

As they should. Knight is their guy. If he falters again then the reigns should be given to Wolf. I get you want to see Wolf play as a Calgary fan, but Knight is the guy for now.

 

[Tube Skates]

He's actually a pretty good puck handler. I've always liked his puck-handling more than Askarov's, but bad games happen.

Think Askarov has gotten more aggressive since playing along side Mikhail Berdin

 

[Roadhouse]

Not that it matters, but I agree with you. These people saying you have a grudge against Caufield are mad that you aren’t praising their team’s pick.

Caufield had a good shift or two, along with an assist, but he really gave nothing in the way of puck support, winning battles, cycling, helping on tie ups, getting to the net. Those were general problems with the whole forward group.

And that’s not necessarily his game, so I’m not saying Caufield needs to become a different player, but he does need to at least do a little better in those areas. Unless you are a Kane level winger talent, you gotta play a little more well rounded. Habs fans are only looking at the scoresheet and a few nice shifts. Caufield generally struggled in this game.

"Had a good shift or two" is completely laughable. You go through about 28 mental hoops to justify Turcotte's ineffectiveness against a tight checking team, then say Caufield "gave no puck support"?? This is rich. Like Bezos rich. Even when Caufield played with Turcotte he ensured he would give him a target to hit for a pass. Caufield's skating, defensive reads and poise on the puck are all major improvements from last year. What has Turcotte improved? Was he not supposed to be the prototype center to dismantle Russia's team D?

Lol, I mean I get you made some bold comments in the past and want to defend your stance... but saying this is about "praising a pick"?? What is this, elementary school?

 

[snowkiddin]

If anything, this game showed that neither Knight nor Askarov appear to be the second-coming of Ken Dryden like TSN would have you believe. Just one game but both guys looked poor.

 

[HanSolo]

Lol. Would be nice if these threads could have prospect analysis more based in objective observation rather than comparative dick measuring. Turcotte was fine, could've been better but was still useful to the US team. Guys like Knight and Askarov have bad nights in these tournaments (if you believed what happened in John Gibson's first WJC appearance you'd be led to believe that he was a bust of a goalie that could never hold Jack Campbell's jock strap). All the big talents on this roster had a less than ideal night against a tight checking Russian team. I don't think this game is indicative of anything and all this "X prospect was ass, my team's prospect was good because of Y and Z moments" is pointless.

 

[ORRFForever]

If anything, this game showed that neither Knight nor Askarov appear to be the second-coming of Ken Dryden like TSN would have you believe. Just one game but both guys looked poor.

Like someone else posted...

It be funny if someone else ended up winning the best goalie award... like Levi.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Think Askarov has gotten more aggressive since playing along side Mikhail Berdin

I never regarded Askarov as a good puck-handler. Maybe I just missed it, but his puck-handling has surprised me. I usually don't feel like I miss important parts of a player's game I've seen play a lot of times, but I never saw any of this from Askarov prior to this tournament. I haven't seen any of his games this season prior to this, so maybe its also been a feature this season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

"Had a good shift or two" is completely laughable. You go through about 28 mental hoops to justify Turcotte's ineffectiveness against a tight checking team, then say Caufield "gave no puck support"?? This is rich. Like Bezos rich. Even when Caufield played with Turcotte he ensured he would give him a target to hit for a pass. Caufield's skating, defensive reads and poise on the puck are all major improvements from last year. What has Turcotte improved? Was he not supposed to be the prototype center to dismantle Russia's team D?

Lol, I mean I get you made some bold comments in the past and want to defend your stance... but saying this is about "praising a pick"?? What is this, elementary school?

Yet another who turns hostile when I have a different opinion than them about their team's player. Take a number.

At least make a decent argument. A Habs fan claims I'm biased when it comes to Caufield. Very rich. Why isn't it a Blues fan or Jets fan arguing for the game Caufield played and instead a Habs fan? I don't like how these discussions always become so team-oriented where fans always feel the need to defend their team's players or criticize players of rival teams or players who they consider rival picks to their team's picks. How about we all try to give our honest opinions for all players with all team affiliations?

I'm American and will give my opinion on these players and our team. We didn't win this game. I thought Caufield was one of the weaker players among the big names. Doesn't mean I hate him or I don't think he'll have a good tournament. I didn't single him out. I defended someone who was getting hate from, you guessed it, Habs fans. I explained my reasoning why I thought he was a little weaker. Maybe you have other reasoning to think he played well. How about you explain that instead of your conspiracy theory?

 

[Passionis]

I disagree with the theme that US players had a bad night.

I think it was a display of truth not living up to the local hype. They are just good prospects and not some amazingly talented superstars vastly superior to the Russian team.

A recurring theme every year, by the way.

 

[ole ole]

Carrying them where, exactly?

One player isn't gonna carry this team. Caufield needs others to also step up.