Olympics: Russia Roster Discussion (Roster in post 1)

[Atas2000]

Znaroks is an utterly useless piece of garbage. But so is Tretiak and his cronies. They could learn from the fencing team as what to do to improve standards. Shameful performance, appalling discipline, lack of team work and laziness. You don't win games on paper. He is so useless a coach he knew he couldn't rely on a superstar to bail him out or indeed meld together a team of individuals. Is there a system in place within Russian hockey to train coaches ? The whole sports infrastructure within Russia needs looking at. From provision of facilities to everyone, to talent identification, to top level coaching for the best juniors and so and so forth. There was a reason why the Soviet Union was so dominant in many sports and also innovative as well. It's pathetic to see the decline. And Putin can take a hike too. All words and no action. What is emblematic in the leadership occurs across all fields.

Very emotional and thus way overboard. Especially the Putin part. Can someone explain to me how and why the president should be involved in this at all? People bringing it up can't be honest IMO.

The whole system needs a shakeup. The hockey system, so hold your breath. Obviously a lot of people don't want this team to win or don't care. That is a remarkable achievement by FHR, Tretiak and Znarok.

They can win this tournament or not. I do not care much, because there is no Team Russia playing, just some strange Znark-Team from C-SKA.

There is btw only one problem to solve. Responsibility. You lose,you walk. Up to the FHR.

People who are running that thing now talk a lot about old soviet days when the was the "basic team" for the NT and stuff. They do "forget" to mention how responsibility was implemented back then. The great Tikhonovs and Tarasovs could run the show as long as they were winning(and sometimes got the boot in spite of winning for hockey or non-hockey reasons), but no way in hell could any greatest coach or official of all times keep his position after performances we see now. Znarok would be coaching a team in Mongolia and Tretiak would be kicked to a retirement home by now.

You want to copy an old and probably not up to date system? Fine. Do it properly at least.

 

[Atas2000]

Wtf?

Why would they do that?

Like, it's their best chance to win it all in years, they can pick from all the goddamn KHL and choose to pick from only two teams?
Wow.

Because people who call the shots made it their thing to build around two rich teams that amass most of the talent. The idea is stupid and a lot of fans in Russia(and that's being modest) don't care about this team or even don't wish it to win.

To look at it as an utter opportunist this idea would only work if the talent pool in Russia would be that dominant and deep that they could win easily with a third or fourth selection. But it just ain't so.

 

[migi]

Is Sorokin starting tomorrow or Shestyorkin? Which one is the #1 goalie or is Vasily still the #1?

 

[MaxV]

It'll still be Koshechkin.

 

[Yakushev72]

Other countries' rosters are definitely not on par with Team Russia roster. That's a fact. In spite of Znarok's failing master plan, scroll through the rosters and you will not see a single team that, names-wise, matches our roster.



Of course all what you said is true, but after one game it's a bit early to jump to conclusions. I guess the game was lost because they jumped to conclusions after being up by two goals after a few minutes.

My point from the beginning was that when you look at the roster, after you get past Datsyuk, Kovalchuk and Mozyakin, the star power of the names clearly thins out! The rest of the "names" are basically just guys who weren't good enough to land a decent contract in the NHL, and never really distinguished themselves in the WJC or WC. They are a collection of 3rd- and 4th-liners who have never demonstrated the ability to lead their teams to great accomplishments.

This means that the fate of the team rests almost solely on the shoulders of guys who are far past the prime of their careers. As great as they were, Datsyuk, one of the best greatest Russian players ever, is pushing 40, along with Mozyakin; and Kovalchuk is nearing 36. The notion spread by journalists that this is a star-fueled behemoth inevitably destined for the Gold Medal is vastly overblown crap! The elderly stars didn't produce in the opening game, so that left it to the no-names to stand up tall! None did. They may win a Gold Medal, but they are going to have to start showing things that were invisible against Slovakia.

 

[Fantomas]

The money for Sochi and this World Cup (billions) should have gone into grass roots sports development and rejuvenating facilities across Russia from small towns to the biggest cities

Which is what the commies would do because their actions were not defined by personal enrichment.

 

[Yakushev72]

If the competitive and developmental infrastructure is lacking, then you have to take shortcuts if you insist on showing results.

 

[LetsGoFlyers12]

My point from the beginning was that when you look at the roster, after you get past Datsyuk, Kovalchuk and Mozyakin, the star power of the names clearly thins out! The rest of the "names" are basically just guys who weren't good enough to land a decent contract in the NHL, and never really distinguished themselves in the WJC or WC. They are a collection of 3rd- and 4th-liners who have never demonstrated the ability to lead their teams to great accomplishments.

This means that the fate of the team rests almost solely on the shoulders of guys who are far past the prime of their careers. As great as they were, Datsyuk, one of the best greatest Russian players ever, is pushing 40, along with Mozyakin; and Kovalchuk is nearing 36. The notion spread by journalists that this is a star-fueled behemoth inevitably destined for the Gold Medal is vastly overblown crap! The elderly stars didn't produce in the opening game, so that left it to the no-names to stand up tall! None did. They may win a Gold Medal, but they are going to have to start showing things that were invisible against Slovakia.

You make a good point that is being overlooked. Kovachuk, and especially Datsyuk, are not in their prime. While they are still excellent players who can make a significant impact, the media has overhyped their prowess are guys who will single handedly toy with the competition.

I disagree with your point that there is no supporting offensive talent. Gusev, Shipachyov and Kaprizov may prove to be the best line in the tournament and all of these players are terrific. I will agree that ouside of their top 6 this team is underwhelming in terms of firepower. (I will not go into the defesne and goaltending because that has been discussed to death and I agree with just about all of it).

***Having both Tkachyovs on this team as well of Khokhlachev would have made their 3rd line very skilled and dangerous to say the least

 

[NyQuil]

Which teams in this tournament have firepower outside of their top 6?

I'm genuinely curious.

 

[migi]

Sorokin starting tomorrow? Is he #1 now?

You who know Russian language know about this and if Znarok/they gave interview after todays practise.

 

[Zine]

You make a good point that is being overlooked. Kovachuk, and especially Datsyuk, are not in their prime. While they are still excellent players who can make a significant impact, the media has overhyped their prowess are guys who will single handedly toy with the competition.

I disagree with your point that there is no supporting offensive talent. Gusev, Shipachyov and Kaprizov may prove to be the best line in the tournament and all of these players are terrific. I will agree that ouside of their top 6 this team is underwhelming in terms of firepower. (I will not go into the defesne and goaltending because that has been discussed to death and I agree with just about all of it).

***Having both Tkachyovs on this team as well of Khokhlachev would have made their 3rd line very skilled and dangerous to say the least

Welcome to Znarok’s world, a world where talent is routinely ommitted in favour of a plethora of role players.

 

[LetsGoFlyers12]

Which teams in this tournament have firepower outside of their top 6?

I'm genuinely curious.

I am looking internally. The point was that Russia could have had that 3rd scoring line if the right players were picked; which would have given them an unreal advantage over the other strong teams.

 

[Zine]

Sorokin starting tomorrow? Is he #1 now?

You who know Russian language know about this and if Znarok/they gave interview after todays practise.

Coaching staff said Koshechkin will be starting against Slovenia.

 

[migi]

Coaching staff said Koshechkin will be starting against Slovenia.

Thank you! Can you tell if they consider him still as a starter or will Sorokin play against USA? I think the goalie who plays against U.S will play in the quarterfinals.

 

[Kshahdoo]

As much as I wish this team to lose, it's pretty early to be happy. They still can win it all. I doubt, they will, but they still can.

 

[Zine]

I am looking internally. The point was that Russia could have had that 3rd scoring line if the right players were picked; which would have given them an unreal advantage over the other strong teams.

Despite some ridiculous ommissions, this team still has the most talent in this tourney...plenty enough to win gold.
If we lose it won’t be because of roster selection; that’s just one symptom of the bigger problem. We will lose due to a complete lack of leadership, poise, direction, adaptability, coherence, and from our federation being stuck in the stone age. Unfortunately such a scenario is becoming par for the course.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

My point from the beginning was that when you look at the roster, after you get past Datsyuk, Kovalchuk and Mozyakin, the star power of the names clearly thins out! The rest of the "names" are basically just guys who weren't good enough to land a decent contract in the NHL, and never really distinguished themselves in the WJC or WC. They are a collection of 3rd- and 4th-liners who have never demonstrated the ability to lead their teams to great accomplishments.

This means that the fate of the team rests almost solely on the shoulders of guys who are far past the prime of their careers. As great as they were, Datsyuk, one of the best greatest Russian players ever, is pushing 40, along with Mozyakin; and Kovalchuk is nearing 36. The notion spread by journalists that this is a star-fueled behemoth inevitably destined for the Gold Medal is vastly overblown crap! The elderly stars didn't produce in the opening game, so that left it to the no-names to stand up tall! None did. They may win a Gold Medal, but they are going to have to start showing things that were invisible against Slovakia.

You're saying what I am saying myself: if we'll lose it's (definitely) not up to the roster.
Our roster is good. Our problem is another. Many other KHL teams will play with second roster (ok exaggeration, but still) when SKA plays against them because it's pointless to play against them.
The logic of the "base for the national team" club is flawed.
With that being said, I am just saying that the panic of "let's bring them all to red square and have them executed!" after one game is much overblown.
Let's see what happens in the game against the Americans.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

It'll still be Koshechkin.

Am I just a stupid American, or is that a really dumb decision?

 

[Yakushev72]

You make a good point that is being overlooked. Kovachuk, and especially Datsyuk, are not in their prime. While they are still excellent players who can make a significant impact, the media has overhyped their prowess are guys who will single handedly toy with the competition.

I disagree with your point that there is no supporting offensive talent. Gusev, Shipachyov and Kaprizov may prove to be the best line in the tournament and all of these players are terrific. I will agree that ouside of their top 6 this team is underwhelming in terms of firepower. (I will not go into the defesne and goaltending because that has been discussed to death and I agree with just about all of it).

***Having both Tkachyovs on this team as well of Khokhlachev would have made their 3rd line very skilled and dangerous to say the least

I realize that individual selections are debatable, but I was really disappointed that Tkachyov was left off the team. He was so dangerous on every shift in the WC, and he is strong enough and fearless enough to play well in the slot, where they need more presence than they had against the Slovaks.

 

[LetsGoFlyers12]

I realize that individual selections are debatable, but I was really disappointed that Tkachyov was left off the team. He was so dangerous on every shift in the WC, and he is strong enough and fearless enough to play well in the slot, where they need more presence than they had against the Slovaks.

I agree. Tkachyov was a bad omission and his skill and toughness could be used on this team for sure. On a different note Datsyuk looked incredible playing with Gusev and Kaprizov. They are the team's 3 best puck possessors and their chemistry was instintanious.

 

[Northerner]

Russia PUNKED Slovenia so bad you have to wonder how sketchy USA is.

THE BIG RED MACHINE.

The hockey is so different in some of these Olympic games. It's like watching a soccer game the way that Russia would just hold the puck in the o-zone with Slovenia in like a "box" defense.


It's very interesting.

 

[Yakushev72]

I agree. Tkachyov was a bad omission and his skill and toughness could be used on this team for sure. On a different note Datsyuk looked incredible playing with Gusev and Kaprizov. They are the team's 3 best puck possessors and their chemistry was instintanious.

Kaprizov was on fire against SLO, and Gusev dished up a lot of scoring opportunities. I saw the 3rd period of USA-SVK, and the USA was pretty big and fast. The next match could be very interesting.

 

[Wayfarer]

Any word on whether Shipachyov is playing? Or the goalie?

 

[Atas2000]

Any word on whether Shipachyov is playing? Or the goalie?

Shipachyov out. Marchenko out. No word yet on the starter decision.

 

[mikeyp24]

Nesterov is a good player. I think he has really improved. Saying that Gavrikov etc, well, Markov is an offensive defenseman, Gavrikov is not. At this point I can see coaches getting Gavrikov over Markov, of course at the peak of his career Markov would be worth 10 Gavrikovs (no offense), but he's old. That said, I would have of course called him. I think 99% of the earth inhabitants would.

Looked at this thread for.the first time just wanting to see what Russian fans thought of my favorite Russian player and I was sad to see that before it was known about the ban and NHL players not going that people didn't have Gavrikov in. He's only not in the NHL now because he wasn't guaranteed a starting spot in the NHL although he was promised a spot in the NHL just not starting. GMJK wanted him with the jackets so bad he set up a meeting to tour the city and recruit him personally. Gavrikov said he had parts of his game he wanted to improve and thought he wasn't top 4 ready yet and wanted a chance to represent his country in the Olympics so he opted to stay in the KHL 1 more contract before coming over. He is a D... his job is stop teams from scoring. He did that better then anyone at the WJC as a captain and even though scoring 0 points and not winning the tourney earned the honors of best D. Captained other international teams and playing for bigger KHL teams he has only improved his game and his offense has slowly increased but scoring is not part of his job description. People worry too much about him on the PP or just scoring... that's what your forward group is there for. There is not a better overall defender in the entire Olympics then Vlad hands down and I'm ashamed this poster I quoted said Markov would be worth 10 Gavrikovs... I'm assuming it's a non Russian fan or a Habs fam that misses him or just a fan that's never seen Gav play. The kid will be the most underrated defenseman in the NHL 2 years from today for just these same reasons. People will talk about his scoring all the while he will shut down opposing teams best scorers shift after shift with 0 praise while PK Subban will continue to get walked on and receive Norris talk. It's a legit shame.


Can we get some Gavrikov discussion going on about his play you guys have seem so far these Olympics. He had a great goal and assist I haven't seen mentioned.