Russia comeback to IIHF events for 2023-2024

[Garl]

No.

Then what?

 

[Fantomas]

How is there no hypocrisy?

If you truly believe citizens are responsible for the actions of their leaders, why are our players not banned?

1. As leader of committee of foreign affairs, current president Joe Biden was instrumental in the invasion of Iraq. He knew full well the WMD thing was a lie. He'd maybe be considered a war criminal if he was some 3rd world leader doing the same.
2. His policy is to currently occupy Syria, stealing all their oil.

Why are not US players held to the same standards? They're responsbile for their leaders, no?

These are all good points, but I would just like to say that what the US does all over the world is much, much worse than anything Russia has done.

For one thing, Russia doesn't have military bases propping up its imperialism on different continents.

Likewise the Israel analogy is a little off, because it's Ukraine that seeks to be the new Israel (Zelensky said so), with Donbass as the new Palestine. Unfortunately for Ukraine they're too small a fish to achieve their lofty ethnostate ambitions.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Then what?

I'm not really sure what you're having trouble understanding, sorry.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The entire global west has been profiting off the backs of exploited people in third world countries for centuries.... all of these countries have blood on their hands.

 

[ViD]

Many very good and very bad takes here, but I’m so close to being banned, I will just say let’s all be friends and leave this conversation

 

[Huusko]

Here we go with the geo-political issues. The US has been at war with the Middle East for how many years now? Should we ban them from international competition?

This comparison is just insane. The US never made threats against the sovereignty, never wanted to destroy Iraq. After Hitler, the Russian government is the first country in Europe that is willing to expand their territory at the expense of another country. If you are following Russian news, you can recognize similar threats against Moldova, Georgia and even Kazakhstan. No, although it is sad for the sport as Russia is an amazing hockey country. They shouldn`t be welcomed till they are stopping there imperialistic agenda.

 

[Fantomas]

Many very good and very bad takes here, but I’m so close to being banned, I will just say let’s all be friends and leave this conversation

Gonna be a no from me dawg on being friends with people who hate us. Wishing them many years of coping and seething as Russia becomes dollar independent and destroys the US-Ukrainian ethnostate dream.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

This comparison is just insane. The US never made threats against the sovereignty, never wanted to destroy Iraq. After Hitler, the Russian government is the first country in Europe that is willing to expand their territory at the expense of another country. If you are following Russian news, you can recognize similar threats against Moldova, Georgia and even Kazakhstan. No, although it is sad for the sport as Russia is an amazing hockey country. They shouldn`t be welcomed till they are stopping there imperialistic agenda.

First bolded is just completely untrue, unless you value a politicians words over the actions of the nations military. They destroyed their sovereignty and decimated a lot of the country, while destabilizing the whole region and creating a power vacuum that helped create ISIS.
If you are wondering why Russian citizens don't just "wake up" and stop this, look no further than the post above; it's a good example of how propaganda can help people rationalize terrible things their country is guilty of, even after the events are over and the evidence has been clear.

Second bolded I agree with but also believe about America; so another example of "rules for thee but not for me"...but I'm sure there's an excuse or rationalization for why American Imperialism is the exception and is good.

 

[Dofs]

Dofs is short for Doofus, right

You can continue to cry and pout that your Western idols don't approve your good old fashioned imperialism.

 

[Garl]

The entire global west has been profiting off the backs of exploited people in third world countries for centuries.... all of these countries have blood on their hands.

Yes, before ukrainian west people came all the World was singing kumbaya and dancing holding each others hands. Then, dumbass Yakuub created a ukrainian and they started teh opression

Give it up man, you lost, Russia is coming up, your "forever ban" position did not succeed

"Forever ban"? Wtf?

 

[MeHateHe]

For those who keep saying the IIHF should ban the US for the Iraq invasion, please:
1) Point to all the times in 2003 they protested or voiced opposition to the invasion of Iraq, and explain how Iraq is now a part of the US in the way that Russia is trying to make Ukraine a part of Russia;
2) Point to all the times they advocated for the Soviet Union to be banned from international events for their invasion of (pick one: Hungary? Czechoslovakia? Afghanistan, maybe?); AND
3) Explain how going back in time to relitigate those bad acts helps the tens of thousands Putin has killed in the last year and the millions he's forced from their homes in Ukraine, and prevents more atrocities from happening. The point of having Russia excluded from international sporting events is not about making the world more just, necessarily. It's to press them to stop bombing the hell out of a neighbouring country.

 

[Dofs]

I would say these bunch of Russians in this very thread showcase very well why the ban should stay.

 

[garbageteam]

Any tournament featuring Russia right now would look like an international pariah and not be touched or covered with a 10 foot pole. Horrible idea from only the optics and marketing perspective. It will take some international agreement - after the war is over - before Russia is allowed back in.

I'd be fine if there are a couple of Russian athletes who feel strongly that they want to compete and are OK switching allegiances to get special permission from the IIHF so long as they have some connection with the country they want to represent. No swapping back to Russia of course.

Nikita Alexandrov randomly comes to mind as one example, German born player, no idea how he feels about representing Germany but I think in these exceptional circumstances IIHF should allow him to switch if he wants to. I'm not even sure if he is tied to Russia at this point only appearing at the WJCs in 2019-2020.

 

[Garl]

Gonna be a no from me dawg on being friends with people who hate us. Wishing them many years of coping and seething as Russia becomes dollar independent and destroys the US-Ukrainian ethnostate dream.

"They hate us"
"Crush Ukraine"

 

[Huusko]

People will think thats Russian propaganda. But the world's foremost Nazi hunter from the Simon Wiesenthal Center had some choice words.
His own twitter account:

You should read articles from the scientist Andreas Umland (Stockholm Centre for Eastern European Studies) about the Azov brigades. There is a lot to critisize about them in the past, but it is just not true, that there are nowadays a bunch of Nazis.

Members of the Azov brigades visiting Israel in Dec, meeting high rank politicians. The International Ausschwitz Committee constated that Putin announced lies, when saying that the Ukraine is ruled by Nazis.

 

[Hanji]

For those who keep saying the IIHF should ban the US for the Iraq invasion, please:
1) Point to all the times in 2003 they protested or voiced opposition to the invasion of Iraq, and explain how Iraq is now a part of the US in the way that Russia is trying to make Ukraine a part of Russia;
2) Point to all the times they advocated for the Soviet Union to be banned from international events for their invasion of (pick one: Hungary? Czechoslovakia? Afghanistan, maybe?); AND
3) Explain how going back in time to relitigate those bad acts helps the tens of thousands Putin has killed in the last year and the millions he's forced from their homes in Ukraine, and prevents more atrocities from happening. The point of having Russia excluded from international sporting events is not about making the world more just, necessarily. It's to press them to stop bombing the hell out of a neighbouring country.

As to point 1.
-We still have troops in Iraq.
-Our current president was instrumental in the bloody invasion. Without him it wouldnt have occured. We're talking death of a massive scale that engulfs anything occuring in Ukraine.
-Under his current leadership, we're occuyping a chunk of Syria.

 

[Fantomas]

Any tournament featuring Russia right now would look like an international pariah and not be touched or covered with a 10 foot pole. Horrible idea from only the optics and marketing perspective. It will take some international agreement - after the war is over - before Russia is allowed back in.

It would be tremendous marketing and the IIHF knows It. They're sitting down right now, with $$$ signs in their eyes, trying to figure out how they can make this happen because that Canada-Russia final would get record ratings.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

For those who keep saying the IIHF should ban the US for the Iraq invasion, please:
1) Point to all the times in 2003 they protested or voiced opposition to the invasion of Iraq, and explain how Iraq is now a part of the US in the way that Russia is trying to make Ukraine a part of Russia;
2) Point to all the times they advocated for the Soviet Union to be banned from international events for their invasion of (pick one: Hungary? Czechoslovakia? Afghanistan, maybe?); AND
3) Explain how going back in time to relitigate those bad acts helps the tens of thousands Putin has killed in the last year and the millions he's forced from their homes in Ukraine.

1) several countries protested the Invasion, including France, and Canada refused to join their partner for Iraq...who cares who protested at the time? The US government lied and had the media spread those lies which made people on board with the invasions (yellow cake uranium, WMDs, none ever found, and there is evidence the State Department delibaritly forged documents in order to get this narrative out there)

2) Well the US boycotted the Olympics with others in when it was in the USSR and the Afghanistan Soviet war was underway in 1980. Now, if you want to go back to the Soviets wars, the first two you have to go back to what the US did in Korea and Vietnam, and the illegal invasions, mass bombings and war crimes America committed in Combodia and Laos. Not to mention all of the coups the US backed and funded in South America in the 70s-80's.

3) Maybe it doesn't, but not acknowledging it doesn't help either, it just sets the standard that the IIHF (and perhaps people here) are accepting of wars of invasions and of war crimes and civilian casualities depending on where the country being invaded is, who lives there and who is invading...which paints a pretty grim picture for an International body.

 

[Frenchy]

closed , as expected it didnt stay on topic for long.