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Russia comeback to IIHF events for 2023-2024

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GX said:
Apparently no one in Russia has to do anything with the invasion. Russians are, of course, terrible victims of their own actions. CSKA? Sure, Soviet Red Army team has nothing to do with the military.
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Yeah, this is what suprises me the most about this invasion. Apparantly it is only 4-5 people that has anything to do with it. Everyone else is just innocent victims.
 
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Joka12 said:
But who are they representing? Just themself or the country that is invading another?
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Did you feel this way about the US during it's invasions and decades long occupations when their athletes represented their country at all sporting events...when American military personnel (the invading force) were celebrated and even their military vehicles sometimes driven onto the ice in NHL arena's in America?

If we hold Russia to this standard, that's ok with me, but should there not be some retroactive punishment, or at the very least official acknowledgement by the IIHF (as limp wristed as that would be imo) that the USA (and perhaps some of the countries who participated) should have been banned during the years of their invasions and occupations in the Middle East?
 
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Some quick points

1.Personally athletes are not responsible, but as citizens they are. This is how society works, you may hate the government but they are still acting on your vehalf
2.Why would anyone wish to deal with the drama? They win, expect them to be standing on a central arena singing alongside actors and media stars in support of troops, they lose, expect the "West is big satan, they have killed us with their referees" etc
Not to mention all the additional security measures
3.Russia can always organize a tournament with friendly countries. Superseries with Belarus sounds fun
 
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Garl said:
Remind me please, how many provinces of Iraq did the US declare as their new territories?
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Has the IIHF banned Israel? I'm fine with banning Russia. But stop the hypocrisy and hold everybody to the same standard.

The IIHF doesn't hold everybody to the same standard because decision are predicated on self-interest. Nobody cares about innate ethics, war, human atrocities, whatever.

Why is Israel allowed to annex occupied land, but Russia isn't?
 
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Coaches Coroner said:
Did you feel this way about the US during it's invasions and decades long occupations when their athletes represented their country at all sporting events...when American military personnel (the invading force) were celebrated and even their military vehicles sometimes driven onto the ice in NHL arena's in America?

If we hold Russia to this standard, that's ok with me, but should there not be some retroactive punishment, or at the very least official acknowledgement by the IIHF (as limp wristed as that would be imo) that the USA (and perhaps some of the countries who participated) should have been banned during the years of their invasions and occupations in the Middle East?
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Is your problem the fact that it was the US and UK who invaded Iraq?
 
Hanji said:
At least as it pertains to hockey, CSKA has nothing to do with the military anymore. This is common sense. No current players in the KHL are in the military.
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Professional hockey has different contract structures and the CSKA hockey club is now run by Putin's old KGB comrade, but the military ties are still there just the same. If you go and play for the central club of the Russian military you don't get to claim you have no ties to the Russian military.
 
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Russia started the war by publicly declaring that they are essentially sticking it to the West. Then, when their venture didn't turn out as they wanted, they stared officially to cry how they are poor victims getting attacked by Nazi, satanist, gay (all three was literally mentioned at the same time, I am not joking) Westerners. So as far as I am concerned, Russia should be absolutely happy that they aren't getting to play with such disgusting decadent Russophobic enemies like Sweden, USA, Canada, Czechia, Germany, etc. IIHF is doing them a favour and I am happy for IIHF to continue to be so kind to them and proceed doing this favour to them.

Russians who couldn't care less about politics should open their eyes to what is being officially said and done in their name.
 
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Hanji said:
Has the IIHF banned Israel? I'm fine with banning Russia. But stop the hypocrisy and hold everybody to the same standard.

The IIHF doesn't hold everybody to the same standard because decision are predicated on self-interest. Nobody cares about innate ethics, war, human atrocities, whatever.

Why is Israel allowed to annex occupied land, but Russia isn't?
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There is no hypocrisy and my argument wasnt that it is the annexation that is a reason for ban

The "nobody cares" line is some edgy teen stuff How do you know that?
 
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GX said:
Apparently no one in Russia has to do anything with the invasion. Russians are, of course, terrible victims of their own actions. CSKA? Sure, Soviet Red Army team has nothing to do with the military.
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CSKA, like its counterparts in the former Eastern Bloc countries is a private company. Hell, my country has not one but two soccer clubs named CSKA nowadays, neither of which has anything to do with the state or the army.

Now, I think national teams are basically glorified dick measuring contests and Russia shouldn't enjoy having one until it stops being an international pariah state but people need to stop thinking CSKA is the CSKA of 1983.
 
Albatros said:
Professional hockey has different contract structures and the CSKA hockey club is now run by Putin's old KGB comrade, but the military ties are still there just the same. If you go and play for the central club of the Russian military you don't get to claim you have no ties to the Russian military.
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What military ties? Do you have an example? They're funded by Rosneft.

Of course everything is connected to the Russian government, but working for an employer with connections to the gov/army is thouroughly different than actually being in the military.

I have yet to see any proof whatsoever that current Russian KHLrs, NHLrs are officially in the Russian military, let alone hold a high rank.
 
Damn this reminds me of the IIHF events the US was banned from when they killed a million people in Iraq while literally beaming with pride at shock and awe when carpet bombing the city of Baghdad. Oh wait Russia hasn't killed a million people, I guess they still have work to do before its all fine and dandy.

 
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Ovi895 said:
Damn this reminds me of the IIHF events the US was banned from when they killed a million people in Iraq while literally beaming with pride at shock and awe when carpet bombing the city of Baghdad. Oh wait Russia hasn't killed a million people yet, I guess they still have work to do before its all fine and dandy.
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Username checks out.
 
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Hanji said:
What military ties? Do you have an example? They're funded by Rosneft. .

Of course everything is connected to the Russian government, but working for an employer with 'ties' to the military is thouroughly different than being in the military.

I have yet to see any proof whatsoever, that current Russian KHLrs, NHLrs are officially in the Russian military, let alone hold a higher rank.
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And Rosneft owner Sechin is one of Russia's leading siloviki, served in the KGB and as a military advisor in various African conflicts, nowadays he may put his oil magnate hat on but in words of V.V. Putin there is no such thing as a former KGB man. Nowadays professional hockey players may not be given military ranks anymore, but they still affiliate themselves with the organization. Even more voluntarily than was the case historically.
 
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Albatros said:
And Rosneft owner Sechin is one of Russia's leading siloviki, served in the KGB and as a military advisor in various African conflicts, nowadays he may put his oil magnate hat on but in words of V.V. Putin there is no such thing as a former KGB man. Nowadays professional hockey players may not be given military ranks anymore, but they still affiliate themselves with the organization. Even more voluntarily than was the case historically.
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So after false statements claiming they were, Russian players aren't in the Russian military. I'm glad we cleared this up.
 
Icarium said:
Username checks out.
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So you think the IIHF should ban other countries when they do terrible invasions and war crimes, but don't think there should have been or should be the same kind of accountability for your countries invasions that lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths as well as war crimes in two separate countries? Rules for thee but not for me.
 
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Hanji said:
How is there no hypocrisy?

If you truly believe citizens are responsible for the actions of their leaders, why are our players not banned?

1. As leader of committee of foreign affairs, current president Joe Biden was instrumental in the invasion of Iraq. He knew full well the WMD thing was a lie. He'd maybe be considered a war criminal if he was some 3rd world leader doing the same.
2. His policy is to currently occupy Syria, stealing all their oil.

Why are not US players held to the same standards? They're responsbile for their leaders, no?
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I am curious also but nobody is answering what the difference is
 
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Garl said:
Some quick points

1.Personally athletes are not responsible, but as citizens they are. This is how society works, you may hate the government but they are still acting on your vehalf
2.Why would anyone wish to deal with the drama? They win, expect them to be standing on a central arena singing alongside actors and media stars in support of troops, they lose, expect the "West is big satan, they have killed us with their referees" etc
Not to mention all the additional security measures
3.Russia can always organize a tournament with friendly countries. Superseries with Belarus sounds fun
Click to expand...
Give it up man, you lost, Russia is coming up, your "forever ban" position did not succeed
 
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