WJC: Russia 2019 Roster Talk | Mod Note in OP

[BlitzSnipe]

Bronze after a relatively unimpressive game against Switzerland. Overall, the team was a disappointment, with some exceptions like Kochetkov, Romanov, Denisenko and Slepets. The hockey system needs to be changed, under Bragin the team doesn't play a good team game.

 

[Atas2000]

Bronze after a relatively unimpressive game against Switzerland. Overall, the team was a disappointment, with some exceptions like Kochetkov, Romanov, Denisenko and Slepets. The hockey system needs to be changed, under Bragin the team doesn't play a good team game.

Bragin is the exact opposite of what you picture him to be. I also don't see the disappointment. Kravtsov at center because of an injury, Kostin who has become a pylon with stone hands in NA like so many before him, two adequate defencemen one of which has had a bad tournament from start to end, not enough talent in the birth year and thus a bunch of underagers on the roster. They needed to be very lucky to win it.

 

[Atas2000]

Well, failed to get Gold this year once again. Unfortunately, the boys were again resorting to "rambo" tactics and not playing well as a team. Granted, we did organise some good scoring chances on passes, etc., but there luck didn't go our way. Puck control when under pressure also seems to be an issue, the boys have trouble receiving and giving accurate passes. Bragin has been around long enough already and I think it's obvious to him that Russia needs Gold, Silver or Bronze alone don't really do it. Can we actually get Gold with Bragin, or what exactly needs to occur?

You do understand that Bragin is not personally developing those players? How should he win gold with those rosters the whole system produces? No defencemen, no centers. Only goalies and even elite wingers start to get scarce.

 

[snipes]

Bragin deserves to be applauded and respected for the work he does year in and year out with the players he has to choose from.

Bragin is easily one of the best junior hockey coaches, from any country.

 

[Merci Saku]

You do understand that Bragin is not personally developing those players? How should he win gold with those rosters the whole system produces? No defencemen, no centers. Only goalies and even elite wingers start to get scarce.

For once I agree with Atlas2000,

Bronze is a great finish with a team with so many holes especially at center and they were close enough to get to the final game

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Bragin is the exact opposite of what you picture him to be. I also don't see the disappointment. Kravtsov at center because of an injury, Kostin who has become a pylon with stone hands in NA like so many before him, two adequate defencemen one of which has had a bad tournament from start to end, not enough talent in the birth year and thus a bunch of underagers on the roster. They needed to be very lucky to win it.

I wouldn't go as far as saying he's a pylon with stone hands. He could've performed better but I think he was playing centre and he's not used to that role. His antics were out of place too. I don't quite agree with lack of talent, we had Slepets, Podkolzin, Shashkov, Denisenko, i.e. guys who can definitely score, but they just weren't playing a team game as far as I see it. In terms of the Russian system itself, what I can criticize is that the skating speed and puck control, pass reception etc. are not quite on par if compared with the winning teams, plus again the lack of focus on the team game, finding passing lanes, setting up scoring chances - i.e. what was once the benchmark of Soviet hockey.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Bragin deserves to be applauded and respected for the work he does year in and year out with the players he has to choose from.

Bragin is easily one of the best junior hockey coaches, from any country.

I think it's not so much that the players are of bad quality, I think the problem lies more in their playing style. Too individual, not enough focus on playing as a cohesive unit.

 

[Atas2000]

I wouldn't go as far as saying he's a pylon with stone hands. He could've performed better but I think he was playing centre and he's not used to that role. His antics were out of place too. I don't quite agree with lack of talent, we had Slepets, Podkolzin, Shashkov, Denisenko, i.e. guys who can definitely score, but they just weren't playing a team game as far as I see it. In terms of the Russian system itself, what I can criticize is that the skating speed and puck control, pass reception etc. are not quite on par if compared with the winning teams, plus again the lack of focus on the team game, finding passing lanes, setting up scoring chances - i.e. what was once the benchmark of Soviet hockey.

Kravtsov was playing center. Kostin was on his usual LW.

Slepets was a welcome positive, Podkolzin is 17, he was not supposed to carry the team, he will be in the future(that's what I am talking about - lack of talent in this age group), Denisenko and Kratvtsov are not enough to win it all. Shashkov I do not put in that talent category.

As far as team play goes they were limited by the opposition. It did work fine against weaker teams. Lack of talent won't allow them to do that against the US team.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Kravtsov was playing center. Kostin was on his usual LW.

Slepets was a welcome positive, Podkolzin is 17, he was not supposed to carry the team, he will be in the future(that's what I am talking about - lack of talent in this age group), Denisenko and Kratvtsov are not enough to win it all. Shashkov I do not put in that talent category.

As far as team play goes they were limited by the opposition. It did work fine against weaker teams. Lack of talent won't allow them to do that against the US team.

Well, teams are not all about just the individual players, also about how they play together. The Swiss, other than Kurashev, didn't have too many very talented players but they were capable of battling hard against top contenders. I think one of the main problems is the playing style of Russian teams, which needs to be modified.

 

[Atas2000]

Well, teams are not all about just the individual players, also about how they play together. The Swiss, other than Kurashev, didn't have too many very talented players but they were capable of battling hard against top contenders. I think one of the main problems is the playing style of Russian teams, which needs to be modified.

I think we need to develop better players, especially centers.

 

[LDF]

Question on the Russian WJC squad, how many players, who are not already drafted, established themselves for the upcoming draft ??

 

[Yakushev72]

Bragin is the exact opposite of what you picture him to be. I also don't see the disappointment. Kravtsov at center because of an injury, Kostin who has become a pylon with stone hands in NA like so many before him, two adequate defencemen one of which has had a bad tournament from start to end, not enough talent in the birth year and thus a bunch of underagers on the roster. They needed to be very lucky to win it.

Winning comes about through a combination of players and coaches. Players have to do their part, and coaches have to do their part.

Bragin has no control over the quality of players he can choose from, that is true. Having to balance North American players with Russia-based players has the same harmful effect at the junior level as it does at the senior level, that is true. I didn't expect the team to do better than Bronze this year, but after the Canada win, they clearly had a chance to make it to the Gold Medal game. But to get to Gold or Silver, you have to survive the Semi-final round by beating a powerful team.

The loss to the USA was devastating in many ways, and closed off any "good news" from a Bronze finish. Immediately after the game, my impression was that the cause of the loss was the superior skating and stickhandling of the American team. Some of these Americans were from tropical beach towns in Florida and California, and they are skating rings around kids from Siberia. How could this happen?

After some time passed, I came to a different conclusion. For the first 10 minutes of the game, you could say that Russia outplayed the USA, and almost seemed in control. Then the goal is disallowed (wrongly) and the Americans score shortly afterward. Russia immediately seemed to go into a form of collapse, and the US swarmed over them for the rest of the game. The score doesn't adequately reflect the dominance of the American performance. Kochetkov kept it close.

Maybe, though, the Americans weren't actually better skaters and stickhandlers than Russians. I think that you look faster and better when you know where you are going and what you are expected to do when you get there, and, conversely, you look slower and more inept when you are just reacting to negative events as they are happening. Teaching your kids to know where to go and what to do is the coach's job, and Bragin didn't do it this year. He hasn't done it in the last 3 years. So why would you expect that he would do it next year? So often, Russian players, talented as they may be, just took off skating end-to-end to try to stickhandle through an entire team Using your teammates effectively seemed to be optional, and some (Denisenko, Podkolzin) decided not to do it. Coaches cannot tolerate that and obtain a good result befitting a great hockey nation like Russia.

There are some good young coaches at the junior level who are just waiting for their chance to show what they can do. Maybe it is time!

 

[EdJovanovski]

Madman

 

[Irishguy42]

Question on the Russian WJC squad, how many players, who are not already drafted, established themselves for the upcoming draft ??

Slepets and Podkolzin

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Ouch, played through a torn tricep???? That sounds incredibly painful but he was still one of Russians better players.

 

[Fantomas]

Ouch, played through a torn tricep???? That sounds incredibly painful but he was still one of Russians better players.

Remember when some American troll punks here accused Kravtsov of faking when he was decked by a goon and then skated hunched over? I was so happy to see their team lose.

 

[theVladiator]

I do not get the Bragin hate. Over the years I have come to think that the teams represent their country mostly with their conduct on the ice - level of effort, respect for themselves (no diving) and for the opponents (no dirty play). Medals are nice, but so much depends on luck. Under Bragin I think Russia has been represented extremely well. Most importantly kids play as a team, for each other, not to be a hero and show off individual skill.

After watching the games, I do not agree there was a lack of talent for team Russia. Alexeyev+Romanov pairing was behind perhaps only Vaakanainen+Jokiharju, in my opinion. Kravtsov, Kostin, Kovalenko, Denisenko, Slepets, Galimov, Podkolzin, Shen were among the best forwards in the tourney. I think the tourney could have ended with the podium of Finland/USA/Russia/Canada in any order.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

I do not get the Bragin hate. Over the years I have come to think that the teams represent their country mostly with their conduct on the ice - level of effort, respect for themselves (no diving) and for the opponents (no dirty play). Medals are nice, but so much depends on luck. Under Bragin I think Russia has been represented extremely well. Most importantly kids play as a team, for each other, not to be a hero and show off individual skill.

After watching the games, I do not agree there was a lack of talent for team Russia. Alexeyev+Romanov pairing was behind perhaps only Vaakanainen+Jokiharju, in my opinion. Kravtsov, Kostin, Kovalenko, Denisenko, Slepets, Galimov, Podkolzin, Shen were among the best forwards in the tourney. I think the tourney could have ended with the podium of Finland/USA/Russia/Canada in any order.

No one's saying they're not talented. It's just that when one player constantly tries to go through the opposing team's defence, things often don't work out. The kids have to be taught the good old USSR form of hockey, passing, seeing spaces, creating chances, confusing opponent players, getting into correct position. Too much individual play can't win Gold in these tournaments.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Winning comes about through a combination of players and coaches. Players have to do their part, and coaches have to do their part.

Bragin has no control over the quality of players he can choose from, that is true. Having to balance North American players with Russia-based players has the same harmful effect at the junior level as it does at the senior level, that is true. I didn't expect the team to do better than Bronze this year, but after the Canada win, they clearly had a chance to make it to the Gold Medal game. But to get to Gold or Silver, you have to survive the Semi-final round by beating a powerful team.

The loss to the USA was devastating in many ways, and closed off any "good news" from a Bronze finish. Immediately after the game, my impression was that the cause of the loss was the superior skating and stickhandling of the American team. Some of these Americans were from tropical beach towns in Florida and California, and they are skating rings around kids from Siberia. How could this happen?

After some time passed, I came to a different conclusion. For the first 10 minutes of the game, you could say that Russia outplayed the USA, and almost seemed in control. Then the goal is disallowed (wrongly) and the Americans score shortly afterward. Russia immediately seemed to go into a form of collapse, and the US swarmed over them for the rest of the game. The score doesn't adequately reflect the dominance of the American performance. Kochetkov kept it close.

Maybe, though, the Americans weren't actually better skaters and stickhandlers than Russians. I think that you look faster and better when you know where you are going and what you are expected to do when you get there, and, conversely, you look slower and more inept when you are just reacting to negative events as they are happening. Teaching your kids to know where to go and what to do is the coach's job, and Bragin didn't do it this year. He hasn't done it in the last 3 years. So why would you expect that he would do it next year? So often, Russian players, talented as they may be, just took off skating end-to-end to try to stickhandle through an entire team Using your teammates effectively seemed to be optional, and some (Denisenko, Podkolzin) decided not to do it. Coaches cannot tolerate that and obtain a good result befitting a great hockey nation like Russia.

There are some good young coaches at the junior level who are just waiting for their chance to show what they can do. Maybe it is time!

Skating speed and puck control definitely need to be improved, and just the general team game. I personally think that Bragin will probably not be able to bring better results than Bronze anymore, since he doesn't seem to motivate his players to play a team game. A new coach is needed, who knows the ins and outs and how to beat the strongest teams.

 

[theVladiator]

No one's saying they're not talented. It's just that when one player constantly tries to go through the opposing team's defence, things often don't work out. The kids have to be taught the good old USSR form of hockey, passing, seeing spaces, creating chances, confusing opponent players, getting into correct position. Too much individual play can't win Gold in these tournaments.

You only mentioned being impressed by 3 skaters and a goalie. That's pretty small fraction of the team, so I assumed you weren't impressed with the talent of the players you did not mention.

I did not see much of one man army heroics from Bragin's teams. In fact playing structured selfless team game is one of the more obvious changes Bragin brought to the national junior team in my opinion. I guess we just have to agree to disagree on that point.

 

[ViD]

I think overall this tournament was a success, first time in forever we won our group beating Canada in the process. We lost to the US, but we were not outclasses, and moreover, we looked better, didn't get some bounces our way and that was it, but in general ,we had a good tourney

 

[Zine]

Our biggest problem isnt Bragin, or defense, or the lack of teamplay; it’s the absence of a quality center. It’s a blackhole year after year after year. Seriously, this year we had to convert a winger who barely played center before.

Who was our last legitimate #1 WJC level center? Do we need to go back to Grigorenko?
How many times have we come within millimeters of the finals with a roster containing crap down the middle? It happens every year. This is a testiment that things aren't all that bad; at least in other areas. Is there room for improvement? Sure, but there’s no need to blow everything up.

 

[greasysnapper]

Slepets and Podkolzin

Throw in Shashkov

 

[wings5]

Skating speed and puck control definitely need to be improved, and just the general team game. I personally think that Bragin will probably not be able to bring better results than Bronze anymore, since he doesn't seem to motivate his players to play a team game. A new coach is needed, who knows the ins and outs and how to beat the strongest teams.

Russia brings some individually fast skaters but team overall speed is usually pretty good same with Sweden, these two teams are usually among the fastest of the top 5 nations. USA makes their selections based on speed and they usually have rosters with insanely fast skaters. They also utilize their speed to forcheck hard which is something Russian teams don't usually do, preferring a trapping style instead. Even Kazackstan this year had a good skating team probably faster than Canada.

Our biggest problem isnt Bragin, or defense, or the lack of teamplay; it’s the absence of a quality center. It’s a blackhole year after year after year. Seriously, this year we had to convert a winger who barely played center before.

Who was our last legitimate #1 WJC level center? Do we need to go back to Grigorenko?
How many times have we come within millimeters of the finals with a roster containing crap down the middle? It happens every year. This is a testiment that things aren't all that bad; at least in other areas. Is there room for improvement? Sure, but there’s no need to blow everything up.

This is true, there was Khovanov but I fear he may have been too physically weak to make an impact this year. Koltygin is pretty good on draws but provides no offence. Other than this there is not much at all which says alot about the countries center depth.

 

[Yakushev72]

I agree with Blitz Snipe. It seems that the USA, Finland and Sweden have an advantage in playing a team game that it is becoming increasingly difficult for Russia to overcome. They are loaded with talent, but Canada is somewhat in the same boat as Russia in lacking that "national team development" structure (in the USA, it was developed in the late 1980's to, ironically, counter the Soviet advantage in structured team play). Canadians play junior hockey under varying coaching systems, and don't neatly fit into a fixed structure either. I would love to see a return to the Soviet-style national team concept because it was so beautiful to watch. We were on the right track with a U18 national team a couple of years ago, and then abandoned it for unexplained reasons (other than the silly heart pill crisis). The RHF must recognize emerging trends and be flexible enough to counter them.