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[Fourier]

So- a better way, sometimes an easier way, is to look at dead cap as reduced cap space. So, say in your example, you buy out Campbell and his cap penalty is 2.6M. Say the overall cap is at 90M. You are immediately handcuffing yourself because you have 87.4M to fill out your roster and your competing with teams, let’s say Florida, who have a 90M cap to work with. You’re handicapping yourself for 6 years (length of the buyout). So, through McDavid’s prime years you have been trying to win a cup with a smaller cap than many of the top contenders. What does that mean- well- 2.6M accrued to the deadline is like an 8M player. Ad in retention and you could add two very good players. For a real life example - Neal’s 1.9M accrued to the deadline and the 2 mill they had could have gotten a Tanev (if Calgary dealt to us- just using it as an example) and Guentzal.

Now add in a Nurse retention of the 2M you mentioned. That’s 86M of cap space vs other teams 90M for 4 years, plus an additional 2 years for Campbell. Again, handicapping yourself during McDavid’s prime years. There is a reason why cup winning teams don’t have dead cap- you need to maximize your dollars. Using the same example 2M Nurse retained this summer, 1.3M Campbell buyout this summer, 1.9M Neal dead cap remaining, Browns 3M bonus. Say it’s Florida and Edmonton in the finals again next year. You are asking the Edmonton Oilers to build a team on 82M than what Florida can build on 90M (again, just using 90M as an example). The quality of player you can get for 8.3M- I’ll let you decide. That 8.3M accrued to the deadline is worth substantially more.

These numbers are hypothetical and players names are hypotheticals- it was just an example to show you why dead cap is a terrible, terrible way to manage your team. Last I checked, in the modern cap era- cup winning teams don’t have dead cap.

I hope my word salad kind of explains it.

I understand the impact of dead cap space. That was never the question. The point is that if you replace a player with someone as good or better where the combination of the new contract and the required dead cap space is less than the cap hit of the player being replaced your team is ahead of the game even with the dead cap.


The bolded statement above actually supports my position rather than hurts it. Remember, the alternative to the $2.6M is having Campbell at $5M potentially as a back-up, which is the premise of the buyout. Assuming you can replace him for say $1.5M if the resulting space was all allowed to accrue this move would buy you roughly $4M more at the deadline than you would have keeping Campbell on the roster.

Now if you are suggesting that a better strategy would be to use assets to trade Campbell with no retention then there would certainly be more cap. However, the issue then is the cost of those assets which in the case of Campbell could be a 1st++ given the Oilers lack of high end tradable non-draft pick assets That first is at the same time the most valuable asset you have to acquire impact players at the deadline. So while you have more cap space to spend you have less capital to spend to get that impact player.

I have advocated looking for creative ways to try and reduce possible dead space while also managing the assets you send out. Utah for example does not have a single NHL defenseman under contract next year and they have a ton of cap space and probably will for years. The Oilers may well want to move on from one or both of Kulak and Ceci. They have more picks than they can reasonably use already so what they need is live bodies.

To Utah: Kulak, Ceci, Campbell at 50%.

To Edmonton: Future Considerations

Utah buys out Campbell for $4.5M spread out over 6 years.

In this case, the Oilers would start the year with $20.5M in cap space.

 

[5Hollywood5]

Surely Brown re-signs with us, if not just for another year so he can actually boost his value over a whole season where he's fully healthy?

 

[3IR]

Anyone heard anything on Broberg and whether he still wants to be traded?

Really hoping the playoffs are his coming out party and he steps into a top 6 full time role next season. I still hope deep down that he might be the guy to replace Ekholm when his contract is up in a couple years.

 

[cruisecity]

Surely Brown re-signs with us, if not just for another year so he can actually boost his value over a whole season where he's fully healthy?

You'd think after stealing 5 million dollars or whatever from us he'd chip in another year at league min. We'll see.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Anyone heard anything on Broberg and whether he still wants to be traded?

Really hoping the playoffs are his coming out party and he steps into a top 6 full time role next season. I still hope deep down that he might be the guy to replace Ekholm when his contract is up in a couple years.

I'd have to think his demand was purely based on wanting to play. He must be having the time of his life right now. He's bonding with the team. I'm sure he will stay as long as he knows a spot his to lose next year.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I understand the impact of dead cap space. That was never the question. The point is that if you replace a player with someone as good or better where the combination of the new contract and the required dead cap space is less than the cap hit of the player being replaced your team is ahead of the game even with the dead cap.


The bolded statement above actually supports my position rather than hurts it. Remember, the alternative to the $2.6M is having Campbell at $5M potentially as a back-up, which is the premise of the buyout. Assuming you can replace him for say $1.5M if the resulting space was all allowed to accrue this move would buy you roughly $4M more at the deadline than you would have keeping Campbell on the roster.

Now if you are suggesting that a better strategy would be to use assets to trade Campbell with no retention then there would certainly be more cap. However, the issue then is the cost of those assets which in the case of Campbell could be a 1st++ given the Oilers lack of high end tradable non-draft pick assets That first is at the same time the most valuable asset you have to acquire impact players at the deadline. So while you have more cap space to spend you have less capital to spend to get that impact player.

I have advocated looking for creative ways to try and reduce possible dead space while also managing the assets you send out. Utah for example does not have a single NHL defenseman under contract next year and they have a ton of cap space and probably will for years. The Oilers may well want to move on from one or both of Kulak and Ceci. They have more picks than they can reasonably use already so what they need is live bodies.

To Utah: Kulak, Ceci, Campbell at 50%.

To Edmonton: Future Considerations

Utah buys out Campbell for $4.5M spread out over 6 years.

In this case, the Oilers would start the year with $20.5M in cap space.

I know we are all used to dumping bad contracts in Arizona but it's been widely reported that Utah will not be continuing this tradition going forward.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5525337/2024/05/29/utah-nhl-offseason-plan/

The Utah hockey club has more than $40 million in salary cap space come July 1, easily the most of any NHL club.

“Pretty good, huh?,” chuckled Armstrong, who was obviously forced to do things for financial reasons under the previous regime in Arizona.

The cap space comes in large part from dead-money contracts of Jakub Voracek ($8.25 million cap hit) and Bryan Little ($5.3 million) coming off the books.

No more of that. Time to stock the roster with active players. Time to supplement the rebuild that’s now heading into Year 4. Although just because they have all this cap space, that doesn’t mean they’ll spend like drunken sailors.

 

[Fourier]

I know we are all used to dumping bad contracts in Arizona but it's been widely reported that Utah will not be continuing this tradition going forward.

LeBrun: What's next for NHL Utah, armed with over $40 million in cap space? Catching up with Bill Armstrong

I don't expect them to be taking large LTIR deals to avoid spending money. But if they are not going to take advantage of their cap space they are foolish. Neither Ceci or Kulak have bad deals. They will easily pay that for UFA's of similar caliber. Both players are better than a guy like Kesselring who is currently their second pairing RHD. As of right now their expected top 4 is

Moser Durzi
Valimaki Kesselring

They have $40M in cap space plus almost $8M more in potential LTIR space. It is unlikely that they will be a Vegas-lite in term of attracting UFA's so there is no way they come close to the ceiling over the next few years.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'd have to think his demand was purely based on wanting to play. He must be having the time of his life right now. He's bonding with the team. I'm sure he will stay as long as he knows a spot his to lose next year.

To his credit he went down and worked hard so that when the opportunity arose he would be ready for it.

 

[TheNumber4]

Anyone heard anything on Broberg and whether he still wants to be traded?

Really hoping the playoffs are his coming out party and he steps into a top 6 full time role next season. I still hope deep down that he might be the guy to replace Ekholm when his contract is up in a couple years.

He sounded positive about the AHL demotion and being brought back for the playoffs. Pretty sure his trade request is dead in the water. Him and his agent should realize that this slow burn, develop in the AHL path he’s on was the best thing that could happen to him.

 

[foshizzle]

Anyone heard anything on Broberg and whether he still wants to be traded?

Really hoping the playoffs are his coming out party and he steps into a top 6 full time role next season. I still hope deep down that he might be the guy to replace Ekholm when his contract is up in a couple years.

I think the issue with him was Woodcroft. Stauffer had mentioned many times since Broberg’s been in the lineup, that if Broberg would make an error- he’d sit or be pulled. It just destroys a young players confidence. Coffey, on the other hand, pats them on the shoulder, give some encouraging words, and throws him right back out.

 

[McSuper]

The Oilers should trade Campbell for Price. Saves Montreal money. Saves Edmonton on the buy out and lets them go over the cap by 10.5 million. Hurts some at the trade deadline but maybe put Kane on LTIR to get another 5 million. and save some for the trade deadline. Like them to move Nurse as well < Just don't see it happening.

 

[Fourier]

The Oilers should trade Campbell for Price. Saves Montreal money. Saves Edmonton on the buy out and lets them go over the cap by 10.5 million. Hurts some at the trade deadline but maybe put Kane on LTIR to get another 5 million. and save some for the trade deadline. Like them to move Nurse as well < Just don't see it happening.

It is very likely that Price's contract is insured. In that case the Canadiens would be on the hook for about $3M in actual money over the next two years. Campbell would cost them $9M if they bought him out and $13.5M otherwise. This trade would cost the Oilers a lot.

I think the issue with him was Woodcroft. Stauffer had mentioned many times since Broberg’s been in the lineup, that if Broberg would make an error- he’d sit or be pulled. It just destroys a young players confidence. Coffey, on the other hand, pats them on the shoulder, give some encouraging words, and throws him right back out.

This surprised me with Woodcroft. Having coached in BAK I would have thought he would have had a longer leash for players coming up.

 

[foshizzle]

It is very likely that Price's contract is insured. In that case the Canadiens would be on the hook for about $3M in actual money over the next two years. Campbell would cost them $9M if they bought him out and $13.5M otherwise. This trade would cost the Oilers a lot.


This surprised me with Woodcroft. Having coached in BAK I would have thought he would have had a longer leash for players coming up.

I agree. For some reason he went the McLelland route and relied on 97/29 and had limited patience for young players coming up.

 

[McSuper]

It is very likely that Price's contract is insured. In that case the Canadiens would be on the hook for about $3M in actual money over the next two years. Campbell would cost them $9M if they bought him out and $13.5M otherwise. This trade would cost the Oilers a lot.


This surprised me with Woodcroft. Having coached in BAK I would have thought he would have had a longer leash for players coming up.

As far as I know it is not insured. It why the Canadians are looking to move him. Hearing Vegas is in on him. They know how to get around the cap. We need to pull their tricks.

Just did a quick search and it seems most of it is insured but not all.

RUMOUR: Canadiens Shopping Carey Price

The Canadiens have been busy this offseason, pushing out salaries that they don't think will serve them in the long term. Rumours are emerging Price could be next.

www.markerzone.com

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

The Oilers should trade Campbell for Price. Saves Montreal money. Saves Edmonton on the buy out and lets them go over the cap by 10.5 million. Hurts some at the trade deadline but maybe put Kane on LTIR to get another 5 million. and save some for the trade deadline. Like them to move Nurse as well < Just don't see it happening.

Ok now this is an interesting idea

 

[Fourier]

As far as I know it is not insured. It why the Canadians are looking to move him. Hearing Vegas is in on him. They know how to get around the cap. We need to pull their tricks.

Just did a quick search and it seems most of it is insured but not all.

RUMOUR: Canadiens Shopping Carey Price

The Canadiens have been busy this offseason, pushing out salaries that they don't think will serve them in the long term. Rumours are emerging Price could be next.

www.markerzone.com

Typically NHL teams insure their biggest contracts. In that case insurance generally covers 80% of the contract which is why I said that the Habs were probably on the hook for about $3M in real money. This makes you trade a tough one.

Now there is a player on the Habs that I could see involved in a deal for Campbell. That is Anderson. Anderson has $15.5M left on his deal compared with $13.5M for Campbell. His buyout costs the Habs $1.3M more than the buyout for Campbell would. After a brutal start he cam on a bit down the stretch but the Habs might be willing to move on from him. Now would it be wise for the Oilers to try and convert Campbell into Anderson rather than opening up space? That is not clear, nor is how such a deal might go down.

 

[McDoused]

This guy asked a pretty good question on oilersnation everday:

1. Signing Janmark is high on the Oilers priority list
2. Oilers are working on signing Draisaitl first and already in contract talks.
3. Thinks Brown likes it in Edmonton and if that was him, he feels like he owes them another year.
4. Janmark will want some security, could see him taking less for term.
5. Desharnais will look to get paid as a late bloomed. might be gone with the play of Broberg
6. Henrique wants an opportunity to win and by all accounts likes Edmonton.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Brobergs development has made about three players disposable imo Ceci (obviously) kulak and vd. At this point vd will prob get overpaid in the Ufa market and he definitely isn't better than kulak.

 

[Canovin]

Ceci is gone for sure. Vinny most likely as well. Kemp knocking on doors.

Ekholm-Bouchard
Nurse-Kulak
Broberg-Kemp
Stecher

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Ceci is gone for sure. Vinny most likely as well. Kemp knocking on doors.

Ekholm-Bouchard
Nurse-Kulak
Broberg-Kemp
Stecher

I think Broberg is going to get pencilled in the top 4.

 

[foshizzle]

Ceci is gone for sure. Vinny most likely as well. Kemp knocking on doors.

Ekholm-Bouchard
Nurse-Kulak
Broberg-Kemp
Stecher

Do you think we will need to add an asset to move Ceci? I think Ceci will interest some GMs based on going to the finals, but all teams (except the Oilers) use analytics and will see Ceci sucks. I hope we can just dump him for a 7th rounder

 

[Little Fury]

I know we are all used to dumping bad contracts in Arizona but it's been widely reported that Utah will not be continuing this tradition going forward.

LeBrun: What's next for NHL Utah, armed with over $40 million in cap space? Catching up with Bill Armstrong

Darnell Nurse is an active player...

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Do you think we will need to add an asset to move Ceci? I think Ceci will interest some GMs based on going to the finals, but all teams (except the Oilers) use analytics and will see Ceci sucks. I hope we can just dump him for a 7th rounder

I think we can dump him for a late round pick. Especially if we win the cup. He has 1 year and isn’t overly expensive. Not the worst stop gap to have on a rebuilding team.

 

[Fourier]

Do you think we will need to add an asset to move Ceci? I think Ceci will interest some GMs based on going to the finals, but all teams (except the Oilers) use analytics and will see Ceci sucks. I hope we can just dump him for a 7th rounder

Utah does not have a single NHL defenseman under contract. Their top 4 is

Moser Durzi
Valimaki Kesselring

You might not get much for Ceci but he would easily be one of their top defensemen. Factor in that Jalen Chaterfield just signed for 3x$3M and it seems clear that Utah won't get someone at Ceci's level for less than $3.25M as a UFA.

 

[Canovin]

Do you think we will need to add an asset to move Ceci? I think Ceci will interest some GMs based on going to the finals, but all teams (except the Oilers) use analytics and will see Ceci sucks. I hope we can just dump him for a 7th rounder

I personally think there will be teams that will take him for free. If he's still playing in the finals it means he can play on any team