Rumor: Rumors & Trade Proposals Thread | Post Mortem '23-24 Season: Who Should Stay, Who Should Go & Who Should We Bring In?

[CycloneSweep]

Do.
Not.
Sign.
Depth.
Players.
To.
Term.

Unless.
They.
Make.
Low.
Enough.
To.
Bury.

 

[La Bamba]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806328578302480680

thanks Kenny

He'll be back in Detroit in some capacity imo

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Unless.
They.
Make.
Low.
Enough.
To.
Bury.

No. Don't do it, period. If burying is even in the discussion then they're not worth it.

 

[oXo Cube]

Max 2x1.5 for Desharnais or we find someone else to fill the easiest role on the roster.

If someone else wants to beat that they're welcome to him.

 

[Zerotonine]

He'll be back in Detroit in some capacity imo

I imagine he was offended by the Jackson hiring tbh

 

[McDoused]

No. Don't do it, period. If burying is even in the discussion then they're not worth it.

Why would you care if you can bury it?

Like Derek Ryan was cheaper because of the extra year and it costs us nothing to put him in the minors. You either don't understand how this works or just being stubborn.

 

[Thomas Tatar]

He'll be back in Detroit in some capacity imo

I still think Columbus.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Why would you care if you can bury it?

Like Derek Ryan was cheaper because of the extra year and it costs us nothing to put him in the minors. You either don't understand how this works or just being stubborn.

There's a distinct difference between one extra year and five for a guy who was effectively supplanted during the playoff run. A couple of years is the way to go for a guy with an extremely limited skillset.

 

[FlameChampion]

I imagine he was offended by the Jackson hiring tbh

Yeah probably. And then Jackson firing Wright etc.

 

[Little Fury]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806328578302480680

thanks Kenny

Good riddance.

 

[McJadeddog]

I think one of Nurse or Kane will be gone

They both have NMC, so they will be here next year (and in the case of Nurse, will be here for at least a few more years). Kane's NMC changes to modified (16 team list) next March, so could see a trade after that, likely in the off-season next year I would think. Kane's money would go a long way to help with Bouch/Drai contracts if they are still on team.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

based on Stauffer's hints...I'm guessing McLeod is out the door this summer

which I'm ok with...too soft for playoff hockey

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

No. Don't do it, period. If burying is even in the discussion then they're not worth it.

Wrong. A buried player doesn’t hurt the team and it can get teams strapped for cap depth players for a playoff run cheaper.

8 years is crazy though.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

He has failed as a 3c in back to back years. As a 4c sure he is fine.

He hasn’t failed. Contending teams always look to improve their depth at the deadline. Bringing in guys like Henrique and Bjugstad isn’t the indictment of McLeod you think it is. If you actually notice they target guys who like McLeod can play all three fwd positions so that they have the versatility to move guys around the lineup and put together different line combinations. Of course there’s areas of Mcleods game that need improvement, like some more consistency in his ability to provide secondary scoring and he could be a little more engaged physically but as pointed out, he’s improved goal and scoring totals in each season so he’s constantly making progress but he’s also already shown that his skating and defensive ability are assets at C, especially in matchup situations where you hope your 3rd line can prevent against an opponents top 6 line.


Continuing to develop McLeod at 3C while also having options to move him around the lineup when needed is how you get the most out of a player, not by putting them in a box and saying he’s not X and he’ll never be. Your shortsightedness is what makes you so awful at evaluating talent and so constantly wrong on players. Player development is a complex and constantly shifting process that doesn’t just end when a guy is 21-22, players are continually developing throughout their careers. You seem to always place some arbitrary development points and timeline on players and if they don’t meet your often unrealistic expectations then you’re ready to box that player in or label them a bust. Thats how you stunt player development and limit player growth. Teams that are patient with players and support them when needed while giving them time and opportunity to grow are the ones who eventually get rewarded. With all that said if McLeod can be used to upgrade on a Ceci or as a piece to get a more impactful player Im all for it, but if he’s on the roster I don’t see a point in boxing him in by not continuing to work with him at 3C.

Broberg is another prime example, you were quick to label the kid a bust and if you were in charge he would have been shipped out for 2nd round pick value already, instead of playing 17-18 minutes a night in the Cup finals.

 

[Little Fury]

If Jeff Jackson can pull of a Nurse trade I'll drive up to Edmonton and kiss his goddamn feet.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Wrong. A buried player doesn’t hurt the team and it can get teams strapped for cap depth players for a playoff run cheaper.

8 years is crazy though.

If he's buried it means he's not cracking the current lineup and ergo not very good. Why would we want him for a playoff run? I get that injuries are certainly a thing but that would put him pretty far down the depth chart.

 

[timekeep]

Unless.
They.
Make.
Low.
Enough.
To.
Bury.

Why sign them long term then??

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Why sign them long term then??

Right? Isn't that just defeating the purpose? People vastly underestimate how long even four years is.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

If he's buried it means he's not cracking the current lineup and ergo not very good. Why would we want him for a playoff run? I get that injuries are certainly a thing but that would put him pretty far down the depth chart.

I think you are missing what I’m saying. (My post was kind of confusing)

Let’s just say hypothetically we are signing Janmark. He asks for 1.8x2 but agrees to sign for 1.2 if we give him an extra year.

Do you not see how something like that can help a cap strapped team? Worst case by the 3rd year he’s useless (Ryan) and you bury him at no cost to the team. Best case you get a good 4th liner at league min for 3 years.

(Yes I’m aware Janmark will probably get more. )

Right? Isn't that just defeating the purpose? People vastly underestimate how long even four years is.

You wouldn’t even know he was on the team if he was buried so why do you care? Are you paying him?

 

[Fourier]

No. Don't do it, period. If burying is even in the discussion then they're not worth it.

Term can save you AAV. It can also get you a player that might otherwise go elsewhere. Each case should be evaluated on its merits.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think you are missing what I’m saying. (My post was kind of confusing)

Let’s just say hypothetically we are signing Janmark. He asks for 1.8x2 but agrees to sign for 1.2 if we give him an extra year.

Do you not see how something like that can help a cap strapped team? Worst case by the 3rd year he’s useless (Ryan) and you bury him at no cost to the team. Best case you get a good 4th liner at league min for 3 years.

(Yes I’m aware Janmark will probably get more. )

The point is you shouldn't plan on signing players with the intention of burying them. Because that's assuming they will remain buried or even get buried in the first place.

You don't get full relief unless the cap hit is extremely minor. In your scenario Janmark would still carry a $50k cap hit assuming the minimum contract floor doesn't go up. If he signs for a bigger contract... well, you can do the math.

2024-25: $775,000 + $375,000 = $1,150,000

2025-26: $775,000 + $375,000 = $1,150,000

I'd rather just not have a cap hit of any kind.

 

[WaitingForUser]

based on Stauffer's hints...I'm guessing McLeod is out the door this summer

which I'm ok with...too soft for playoff hockey

I think all of Nurse Ceci and McLeod might be gone

 

[CycloneSweep]

He hasn’t failed. Contending teams always look to improve their depth at the deadline. Bringing in guys like Henrique and Bjugstad isn’t the indictment of McLeod you think it is. If you actually notice they target guys who like McLeod can play all three fwd positions so that they have the versatility to move guys around the lineup and put together different line combinations. Of course there’s areas of Mcleods game that need improvement, like some more consistency in his ability to provide secondary scoring and he could be a little more engaged physically but as pointed out, he’s improved goal and scoring totals in each season so he’s constantly making progress but he’s also already shown that his skating and defensive ability are assets at C, especially in matchup situations where you hope your 3rd line can prevent against an opponents top 6 line.


Continuing to develop McLeod at 3C while also having options to move him around the lineup when needed is how you get the most out of a player, not by putting them in a box and saying he’s not X and he’ll never be. Your shortsightedness is what makes you so awful at evaluating talent and so constantly wrong on players. Player development is a complex and constantly shifting process that doesn’t just end when a guy is 21-22, players are continually developing throughout their careers. You seem to always place some arbitrary development points and timeline on players and if they don’t meet your often unrealistic expectations then you’re ready to box that player in or label them a bust. Thats how you stunt player development and limit player growth. Teams that are patient with players and support them when needed while giving them time and opportunity to grow are the ones who eventually get rewarded. With all that said if McLeod can be used to upgrade on a Ceci or as a piece to get a more impactful player Im all for it, but if he’s on the roster I don’t see a point in boxing him in by not continuing to work with him at 3C.

Broberg is another prime example, you were quick to label the kid a bust and if you were in charge he would have been shipped out for 2nd round pick value already, instead of playing 17-18 minutes a night in the Cup finals.

If we want to keep McLeod that’s fine but this is the second year in a row we HAD to upgrade on him and by the end of the playoffs he was either healthy scratched or our 4th line LW.
I’m not saying he needs to be traded, but I’m saying that right now he has shown he is NOT a 3c and clearly gifting him the spot isn’t developing him into that role. Have him as the 4c to start the year and if he is good enough to push his way up then he can.

You aren’t boxing him by not doing that, you are just not gifting him a spot he has shown he can’t handle yet. That and instead of hoping to find a 3c to again replace him with at the deadline we can use those assets to get something else needed.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Term can save you AAV. It can also get you a player that might otherwise go elsewhere. Each case should be evaluated on its merits.

Janmark played great in the playoffs but at the end of the day he's still a fourth liner that was just alright during the regular season. A deep playoff run drives up prices and you need to be very careful.

Term can save us AAV... But then you're just adding cap hits for further down the road.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Why sign them long term then??

To keep their cap hit down. Depth guys, especially guys after 30 or close to look for the total amount they can earn before retiring. So to get them to stay you offer them term that will give them a bit more or the same they would get doing a couple 1 year deals. The overall cap hit today is lower than it would be on a one year deal and if they can’t keep their end of the bargain in a year or two, you have them be one of the AHL vets. The literal only downside is it wastes a billionaires money. So actually no downside.