Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | With Klingberg in the Mix Who Are Our 7D After the Deadline?

[Fourier]

The Ducks backup goaltenders played on the same team as Gibson and the last year he outperformed the backups in sv% or the actual starter that took his job since he dropped the ball so much was the 2018-19 season (technically one goalie did, but only played 5 games, so we'll ignore that).

I'd somewhat look at Gibson in a similar light to Connor Murphy, except instead of waffling between good and bad with Murphy, Gibson bounced between elite and bad depending on the night. One thing I'll say in Gibson's defense is ANA had a soul crushing effect on some players especially during the Eakins years and both Lindholm and Fowler bounced back on new teams.

Despite Gibson being elite in the past and putting up an elite season in the present I don't know how you gloss over a player being mostly shit for the 5 prior seasons especially with a $6.4M cap-hit and signed for 2 more years.

IMO Gibson has to come with retention I want to say 50%, but maybe $2.9M is enough and the cost shouldn't be more than a 2nd round pick. Fowler I'd say has been better for the past half decade and went for a 2nd round pick and came with retention.

From what I've heard though is the Ducks brain trust view him as an elite goalie and have never moved from that position and want a trade that reflects their evaluation.

There has been a narrative about Gibson that he starts well and then when it is clear the team is going nowhere fast he fades. Looking at the splits he has had during his "down years" there does seem to be some truth to that. Anaheim has been soul crushingly bad for several years and if there is one position where anything less than your best in that situation is going to be fatal it is in net.

Gibson at 50% has some significant pluses for me. If he succeeds you have cheap goaltending through to the time when the cap is absolutely your friend. You get past the McDavid contract and with the Oiler's contract structure there should be plenty of money if you need to give him a raise. I've said this before but I suspect that the current version of Skinner will be looking for $5-6M when his deal is up. He has a very high opinion of himself and I doubt he will have any interest in re-signing early for anything less.

If Gibson is mediocre, it's not really a big number for a veteran backup or a 1B.

If he is bad then buying out that last year is not a big deal. Though the better move might be retaining $1.5M and moving him out.

You can make it even more palatable if you could get double retention. Anaheim with Gibson at 50% would still have almost $43M in cap space going into the next off season. After signing Dostal and Mason they would still need to spend like drunken sailors to get to within $10M of the cap ceiling. If you could get another team to eat $1.2M and get him to $2M you really cover your bases in the three scenarios above and you leave yourself with room to add this year as well. What would this cost??? I am not really sure.
One thing a rapidly rising cap does is make the cost of retention decrease. You still have to pay for the real money but the premium you pay for the extra cap space goes down significantly.

 

[Fourier]

I was curious about your post and wanted to look into goalie coach tenure within NHL organizations. Whether there was high turnover tied to coaching staff turnover or not. This list which I've not qualified suggest NHL goaltender coaches are long-term hires that outlive the highly transient reality of NHL head coaches world: Complete History of NHL Goalie Coaches | Goalie Coaches

Personally I'm not sure Gulutzan deserves credit for a PP1 that run by an all-time generational super elite and a second running mate who will also be a hall of fame player. There are some set plays for sure but Gulutzan himself credits the jazz improvisational inherent greatness of McDavid and Draisaitl for a once historic level PP. Both McDavid and Draisaitl were #1 and #3 overall draft picks and the unit includes a second #1 overall and a 10th overall pick. Hyman's the outlier. Gulutzan's challenge comes now with league wide adjustments that's pushed the Oil PP to 7th.

Schwartz has worked with a parade of veteran goaltenders which have been largely retreaded, established ones closer to aging out phase of career than entry level or early prime years. His success would be developing a 3rd round pick into an NHL back-up and then an NHL starting goalie when the organization big money bet on an external solution Jack Campbell failed almost immediately. Skinner was recognized externally as a Calder Trophy Finalist; NHL All Star; and NHL All Rookie Team. Team results with their contingency necessity goaltender includes a Game 7 Stanley Cup Final run.

Schwartz has helped several junior age prospect goaltenders develop into NHL goaltenders, Boissoit, Jarry, Hart, Skinner. Those are reasonable results given the positional challenge involved of only two per team and exceedingly low likelihood of junior hockey players moving into professional careers and lesser still to make and play at apex NHL level.

Have said I'd probably fire Schwartz for his role in the Jack Campbell signing fiasco shared with overrated Toronto based Brad Holland. But this guy hasn't worked with the elite talent Gulutzan has (to use your comparison) and "his guy" didn't wilt under pressure when Campbell failed. The Oilers organization hasn't prioritized goaltending for over a decade. They've now pushed all their eggs into the Skinner basket apparently believing in their finally developed homegrown guy. One might say he also contributed to coaching up a career AHL goaltender into a competent NHL back-up.

Personally I'd trade for a 1A as stated many times.

You make some very valid points. I suppose that there just aren't that many recognized goalie coaches out there to choose from in comparison with bench coaches.

My biggest concern would be if Schwartz was the guy driving the assessment of goalies for the team.

 

[MoontoScott]

There has been a narrative about Gibson that he starts well and then when it is clear the team is going nowhere fast he fades. Looking at the splits he has had during his "down years" there does seem to be some truth to that. Anaheim has been soul crushingly bad for several years and if there is one position where anything less than your best in that situation is going to be fatal it is in net.

Gibson at 50% has some significant pluses for me. If he succeeds you have cheap goaltending through to the time when the cap is absolutely your friend. You get past the McDavid contract and with the Oiler's contract structure there should be plenty of money if you need to give him a raise. I've said this before but I suspect that the current version of Skinner will be looking for $5-6M when his deal is up. He has a very high opinion of himself and I doubt he will have any interest in re-signing early for anything less.

If Gibson is mediocre, it's not really a big number for a veteran backup or a 1B.

If he is bad then buying out that last year is not a big deal. Though the better move might be retaining $1.5M and moving him out.

You can make it even more palatable if you could get double retention. Anaheim with Gibson at 50% would still have almost $43M in cap space going into the next off season. After signing Dostal and Mason they would still need to spend like drunken sailors to get to within $10M of the cap ceiling. If you could get another team to eat $1.2M and get him to $2M you really cover your bases in the three scenarios above and you leave yourself with room to add this year as well. What would this cost??? I am not really sure.
One thing a rapidly rising cap does is make the cost of retention decrease. You still have to pay for the real money but the premium you pay for the extra cap space goes down significantly.

Interesting points.

Retention does get easier with a significantly rising cap and that means the Oilers have a better shot at some veteran talent.

As for Mr. Skinner, I think its 50/50 that they re-sign him and if they do it won't be for 6M dollars.

 

[Stud Muffin]

I have no idea what Gibson would even cost. At the start of the season Anaheim couldn’t even give him away. I do want to just get the deal done though, Keep Skinner as a back up and run that as our tandem for the next two runs.

 

[Fourier]

Interesting points.

Retention does get easier with a significantly rising cap and that means the Oilers have a better shot at some veteran talent.

As for Mr. Skinner, I think its 50/50 that they re-sign him and if they do it won't be for 6M dollars.

Blackwood just got $5.25M for three years before the announcement of the huge jump in the cap. Suppose Skinner remains the team's #1 guy. Why would he ask for anything less especially since the cap will be $104M? You may be right that the Oilers won't pay that, but then if they are at the mercy of the UFA market for a goalie. That has never proved to be a good option.

 

[MoontoScott]

Blackwood just got $5.25M for three years before the announcement of the huge jump in the cap. Suppose Skinner remains the team's #1 guy. Why would he ask for anything less especially since the cap will be $104M? You may be right that the Oilers won't pay that, but then if they are at the mercy of the UFA market for a goalie. That has never proved to be a good option.

But if Skinner is simply deemed as inadequate (for #1 goalie) then does the team have much of a choice?

 

[jlockhart89]

Ristolainen hurt enough to withdraw from the 4-Nations, mixed feelings about this. We were reportedly interested in him and I’m not a huge fan so this should in theory have us exploring other options (ante-ing up for Byrem/Pulock/Dobson etc. and upgrading goaltending). But it could certainly up the market rate for defensemen.

 

[Oilslick941611]

And as I heavily sold for the year and a half prior, keeping Broberg happy was a risky proposition that started with us moving on from Brett Kulak. The rope-a-dope usage with him over the years wore out the relationship with the organization.

McLeod turned up roses for the franchise. He was a highly productive 2nd round pick that played solid NHL minutes and was traded for a borderline blue chip prospect winger.

Holland's process of slow-cooking prospects is solid in theory. But it isn't realistic for guys with big draft pedigree. That's millions of dollars in potential earnings that Broberg is foregoing because the team trusts a veteran more to play a tertiary role.

Broberg also gave management no choice in that role a dope usage. He played bad during his call ups for 3 years and made no impact at all until last year, and even then the underlying numbers weren’t kind to him.

 

[McDrai]

The gameplan for the Oilers should be clear. Address issues from the net out.

1. Acquire a goalie at the deadline who can supplant Skinner
2. Acquire another top 4 dman. Byram is really intriguing. If no available deals then circle back in the summer.
3. Top 6 forward who can replace one of Arvidsson/Skinner. There should be plenty of mid six forwards available. I would only pursue this if #1 is addressed at the least (we won’t outscore our problems in net no matter who we have as forwards).

We shall see how serious Oilers Management is about winning this season. If goaltending is not addressed at the deadline then you can kiss this season goodbye.

 

[McFlash97]

Time and time again, narcissists tend to bend the masses into beleiving what they do is correct simply because of they are given a position of power. When you look at this Oilers management, its full of guys like this. All they had to do was re-up 2 of the 4 wingers in the offseason. Holloway and one of Foegle or Mcleod. Forward problems wouldnt even exist. They cant get out of thier own way. They would very much like the 22 Avs. Running through the league at will. Instead goofs wanted to look important and pretend they improved a finished product.

 

[Fourier]

But if Skinner is simply deemed as inadequate (for #1 goalie) then does the team have much of a choice?

I am not entirely sure what your are saying. My point is that one might be able to argue that at his current cap hit you could live with Skinner. (I am not saying this, just that it is a point to consider), but that Skinner's days of being cheap are limited. Despite what people think if Skinner simply maintains his current play he will be looking to get paid. I think this means that you have to deal with the goaltending situation now or in the offseason unless you are prepared to run with a $5-6M Skinner as your guy or unless you are prepared to take your chances in the FA market again when you are a bit desperate. Neither of these is an attractive option. I'd rather they be proactive but also want someone who will actually be better. I am coming around to Gibson as a possible low risk upgade target. But I would also like to see them swing higher if they could manage it.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

If we get Ryan Donato, it’s a win!

I like Ryan Donato a lot as a player, but the fact we seem so interested in him and in O'Connor means it doesn't seem likely we will be upgrading the team much.

Why are we so focused on adding a bottom 6 player in which we have riches of?? If we get out of this deadline with just Klingberg and Donato while our competition adds big fish, that will be pretty lame.

Instead of a win I give it a big fat L

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I have no idea what Gibson would even cost. At the start of the season Anaheim couldn’t even give him away. I do want to just get the deal done though, Keep Skinner as a back up and run that as our tandem for the next two runs.

See if we get a goalie (doubt it) I'd rather keep Picard as the backup because:

He is more liked in the room and has experience as the back up. If Skinner was the back up I'm pretty sure his confidence would be completely shot.
Keeping Picard also gives us more cap space.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Verbeek would have seen lots of Savoie. If he is the ask for Gibson 50% retained you need to pull the trigger.

 

[Mr Positive]

I like Ryan Donato a lot as a player, but the fact we seem so interested in him and in O'Connor means it doesn't seem likely we will be upgrading the team much.

Why are we so focused on adding a bottom 6 player in which we have riches of?? If we get out of this deadline with just Klingberg and Donato that will be pretty lame.

Instead of a win I give it a big fat L

We are a top team and also deep. We also don't have much for trade assets, especially since we have long term plans for our top prospects. We don't have spare parts there.

We can and will make additions but it's going to be in the margins where we can. It's not going to be someone like Dobson or Rantanen. I even doubt it could be Gibson if there is a lot added to the cost because of retention

 

[jlockhart89]

I like Ryan Donato a lot as a player, but the fact we seem so interested in him and in O'Connor means it doesn't seem likely we will be upgrading the team much.

Why are we so focused on adding a bottom 6 player in which we have riches of?? If we get out of this deadline with just Klingberg and Donato while our competition adds big fish, that will be pretty lame.

Instead of a win I give it a big fat L

You do understand we can make more than one trade correct? Adding Donato allows us to keep Ryan/Philp out of the lineup and manage Corey Perry’s usage. Perry’s had a fantastic game but looked bagged the last back to back. We don’t need to burn that candle out before the games he can be the most effective for us

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

We are a top team and also deep. We also don't have much for trade assets, especially since we have long term plans for our top prospects. We don't have spare parts there.

We can and will make additions but it's going to be in the margins where we can. It's not going to be someone like Dobson or Rantanen. I even doubt it could be Gibson if there is a lot added to the cost because of retention

We have assets. Look it how Vegas operates. You trade Sam O' Reilly, you trade Savoie, trade a 1st round pick. Everyone overrates prospects anyways.

Our window is right now. We have multiple holes on this team.

Do you guys not get that in the Stanley cup playoffs 2027 (3 years) Hyman will be 35, Nuge 34, Ekholm 37, Drai 31.

Forget about Mcdavid winning *multiple cups* get aggressive and start with one.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

You do understand we can make more than one trade correct? Adding Donato allows us to keep Ryan/Philp out of the lineup and manage Corey Perry’s usage. Perry’s had a fantastic game but looked bagged the last back to back. We don’t need to burn that candle out before the games he can be the most effective for us

Yes, I'm fine with Donato if we add something else. Let's use some logic though. With Kane coming back and us adding a player like Donato it's doubtful we get another forward. With Klingberg taking the top 4 spot (per Coffee's comments) it's doubtful we get another starting D. They seem unlikely to get a goalie (maybe this narrative has changed)

I'll admit I should wait until after the deadline to comment, but at the same time I have to let my opinion out. After last years big fat strike out, this does not seem to be going well.

You have to admit a deadline of Donado, Klingberg and a depth LHD is a C- deadline again. I knew when we decided to "try" out Klingberg it wasn't a good sign.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

We have assets. Look it how Vegas operates. You trade Sam O' Reilly, you trade Savoie, trade a 1st round pick. Everyone overrates prospects anyways.

Our window is right now. We have multiple holes on this team.

Do you guys not get that in the Stanley cup playoffs 2027 (3 years) Hyman will be 35, Nuge 34, Ekholm 37, Drai 31.

Forget about Mcdavid winning *multiple cups* get aggressive and start with one.

I accept this logix for prospects like O'Rielly and Akey. Savoie to me is untouchable. He should bring a lot in the next 2 years at basically league min.

 

[McFlash97]

We have assets. Look it how Vegas operates. You trade Sam O' Reilly, you trade Savoie, trade a 1st round pick. Everyone overrates prospects anyways.

Our window is right now. We have multiple holes on this team.

Do you guys not get that in the Stanley cup playoffs 2027 (3 years) Hyman will be 35, Nuge 34, Ekholm 37, Drai 31.

Forget about Mcdavid winning *multiple cups* get aggressive and start with one.

In 3 years Hyman wont be in the top 6, Ekholm probably retires, Draisaitl and McDavid still a good age to push for a cup. Nuge along with Hyman plays on our third line. Savoie whos faster than Nuge and much more gifted offensively will be dynamite on the top 6. Our wingers depth hopefully will be younger and better than what it is now. Bouchard will be more seasoned, ans will hopefully have another stud with him on the backend. Wishful thinking but hopeful.

 

[McDoused]

I think Ryan Donato would be pretty good as a winger or centre and he’d be good wirh Leon or McD. He has very good IQ based on my highlights of him lol.

I bet he’d re-sign with Edmonton too

Just from your gut? Or why?

The Ducks backup goaltenders played on the same team as Gibson and the last year he outperformed the backups in sv% or the actual starter that took his job since he dropped the ball so much was the 2018-19 season (technically one goalie did, but only played 5 games, so we'll ignore that).

I'd somewhat look at Gibson in a similar light to Connor Murphy, except instead of waffling between good and bad with Murphy, Gibson bounced between elite and bad depending on the night. One thing I'll say in Gibson's defense is ANA had a soul crushing effect on some players especially during the Eakins years and both Lindholm and Fowler bounced back on new teams.

Despite Gibson being elite in the past and putting up an elite season in the present I don't know how you gloss over a player being mostly shit for the 5 prior seasons especially with a $6.4M cap-hit and signed for 2 more years.

IMO Gibson has to come with retention I want to say 50%, but maybe $2.9M is enough and the cost shouldn't be more than a 2nd round pick. Fowler I'd say has been better for the past half decade and went for a 2nd round pick and came with retention.

From what I've heard though is the Ducks brain trust view him as an elite goalie and have never moved from that position and want a trade that reflects their evaluation.

Don't underestimate how much Eakins being head coach from 2019 to 2023 messed up that whole organization.

 

[McFlash97]

Verbeek would have seen lots of Savoie. If he is the ask for Gibson 50% retained you need to pull the trigger.

Your kidding me right ? Tell me your joking ?

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

In 3 years Hyman wont be in the top 6, Ekholm probably retires, Draisaitl and McDavid still a good age to push for a cup. Nuge along with Hyman plays on our third line. Savoie whos faster than Nuge and much more gifted offensively will be dynamite on the top 6. Our wingers depth hopefully will be younger and better than what it is now. Bouchard will be more seasoned, ans will hopefully have another stud with him on the backend. Wishful thinking but hopeful.

You are proving my point. I think we go with the more realistic thinking of we won't have a better shot at it than this year.

So much has to go right for us to stay competitive and history suggests we probably won't win a cup when Mcdavid and Drai get to around age 31/32

Mcdavid and Drai are dragging this team on their backs right now. They will regress slightly and the rest of our roster will be weaker.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Your kidding me right ? Tell me your joking ?

Do we know what Savoie will be?

Some contender in need of goaltending would see Gibson retained worthy of a first. And that's what Savoie is.

 

[Zerotonine]

Every one drooling about the possibility of Gibson myself included and I'm sure given are past we ain't doing anything in net. No matter how obvious the hole is....