Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | With Klingberg in the Mix Who Are Our 7D After the Deadline?

[Oilhawks]

Claim this round one pick!

 

[Tarus]

Claim this round one pick!

I was surprised he even got the Pittsburgh contract.

Couldn't even hack it with a completely fresh start on a two year, league min contract before they just wanted him to just go away before the contract ended.

 

[Jumptheshark]

View attachment 974672

Wander what happened when Pizza Boy was sent to the farm. He got 3 pts in 4 games and then nothing. Did he get injured or something

 

[Mr Positive]

I'm not sure why you're using Minnesota as a team to aspire to. They tried to trade Gustavsson for peanuts in the off-season, and now he's a top-10 goalie this year. That wasn't by Bill Guerin's design.
Fleury was a sub .900 goalie in 40 games last year.
That hotshot goalie that he drafted in. the first round is floundering in the AHL with a 0.871 SV%, which is worse than their other undrafted goalie of almost the same age.

Minnesota hasn't been a better team than Edmonton at any point during Guerin's tenure.

We don't know what Gustavsson was for sale for. Also they get full credit for having him. They only looked into moving him because they drafted Wallstadt. And yes, that team has had a lot of chaos for other reasons and had struggles at times. If we would have had Fleury maybe his stats wouldn't have been great but he would have been a great veteran mentor for Skinner. He was a fantastic addition to a team with younger goalies like Gustavsson and Wallstadt. Gustavsson catching fire may have been lucky, but it was bound to happen to an org that is constantly trying new things there and investing in the position. If Gustavsson wouldn't have emerged then someone else would have.

Minnesota has been far better than Edmonton when it's come to goaltending. This is a perfect example to use. They get fantastic results and it's not even that expensive. It's just that Guerin cares about goaltending. We obsess on forward and defense at the expensive of goaltending.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

I was surprised he even got the Pittsburgh contract.

Couldn't even hack it with a completely fresh start on a two year, league min contract before they just wanted him to just go away before the contract ended.

He is a deer in the headlights. He just can't play like Yak used to. Doesn't know where to go, where to be, etc. Gets in the way. Same as he was here.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I was piggybacking on the poster's comment with cited Minnesota. There's better models off building a sustaining pipeline of quality NHL goaltenders and prospect pools. Fact remains that Minnesota has built into their strategic plan a short-term approach to improve its goaltending and a long-term one as well. They haven't settled. Goaltending is also a product of team defense. They are a team playing essentially short handed with the big cap penalty for flushing Suter and Parise yet continued to be competitive. Think there's a viable rationale for goaltender statistics based upon the bigger hard organization decisions that were made with the future in mind.

The hotshot goaltender prospect is where he needs to be. Again it's hard to separate goaltender stats from team play so I'd have to look at their farm team to gage the hotshot's actual development path. There's a coherent development plan in place. Whether he gets there is still to be written.

Conversely the Oilers approach has been to invest everywhere else and hope goaltending will hold up. Then they blew their wad on a highly questionable veteran leaving a mid-level prospect to step into the fire.

EDIT: Evaluating a first ballot HOF goaltender's impact solely on SAV% is extremely limited to the depth of leadership, mentorship, and overall consistency the guy has delivered. They've had solid goaltending from him through a retool phase and essentially another goaltender coach/mentor available to their whole team.

I think if anything it just proves how big of a crapshoot goaltending is. Minnesota is an example of prioritizing building a pipeline from drafting a goalie in the first round to drafting a HOFer mentor backup, and then you have a team like Washington or Vegas that flips cheap goalies from year to year without any great strategy. Do they achieve the same results? Seemingly so. The league is built on either drafting and hitting on the super elites that can be counted on one hand, or rolling the dice on "the rest". The rest being the Gustavssons and Talbots in the league that are bottom-10 one year, top-10 the next or somewhere in the mushy middle.

 

[Tarus]

He is a deer in the headlights. He just can't play like Yak used to. Doesn't know where to go, where to be, etc. Gets in the way. Same as he was here.

Yeah, I'm not at all surprised.

First preseason game I ever saw him play in Oiler silks right after he was drafted, my impression that he was a dullard on skates.

Suffice to say, he's never proven me wrong.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

We don't know what Gustavsson was for sale for. Also they get full credit for having him. They only looked into moving him because they drafted Wallstadt. And yes, that team has had a lot of chaos for other reasons and had struggles at times. If we would have had Fleury maybe his stats wouldn't have been great but he would have been a great veteran mentor for Skinner. He was a fantastic addition to a team with younger goalies like Gustavsson and Wallstadt. Gustavsson catching fire may have been lucky, but it was bound to happen to an org that is constantly trying new things there and investing in the position. If Gustavsson wouldn't have emerged then someone else would have.

Minnesota has been far better than Edmonton when it's come to goaltending. This is a perfect example to use. They get fantastic results and it's not even that expensive. It's just that Guerin cares about goaltending. We obsess on forward and defense at the expensive of goaltending.

Minnesota had more goals scored against them than Edmonton last year and have more against than us this year.

And Seravalli has mentioned multiple times Guerin couldn't give Gustavsson away with his contract and the season he just had.

 

[Fourier]

Except every other coach has a steady supply of talent to work with. Look at how pleased we are with Coffey coaching the defense. Our defense improved but our GMs have invested so much there. Bouchard and Nurse are top 10 picks. The Ekholm trade was done with a lot of hard work and trade capital. The team has aggressively cycled talent through the depth. This approach goes double for the forward core. Goaltending? There is every indication that management believes that goaltending is not where you spend your time and money. Just put someone cheap there and believe the rest of the team will pick up the slack.

My point isn't that I believe Schwartz is great goalie coach. My point is that it is hard to know how good is because he's had so little to work with.

When you have an issue with a position the simplest explanation is that it's a player issue.

Schwartz predates McDavid. Since then we have Eakins, Nelson, McLellan, Hitchcock, Tippet and Woodcroft all get fired. And they are now on their 4th GM. Gulutzan came in 2018 but I think you can certainly point to his successes. Since Schwartz has been the goaltending coach what evidence is their that he has been a positive difference maker. It's a results oriented league. If the results aren't there maybe try something else.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Karmin Gill probably all over X losing his shit about now..
"GET HIM STAN!!!" "What are the Oilers Doing?????, Get Him NOW!!!"

I'm Karman Gill. Get the name right.

No I dont want him

 

[belair]

Schwartz predates McDavid. Since then we have Eakins, Nelson, McLellan, Hitchcock, Tippet and Woodcroft all get fired. And they are now on their 4th GM. Gulutzan came in 2018 but I think you can certainly point to his successes. Since Schwartz has been the goaltending coach what evidence is their that he has been a positive difference maker. It's a results oriented league. If the results aren't there maybe try something else.

Our goalie issues date back even farther. I feel the last consistently solid starting goaltender in Oiler silks was Curtis Joseph. We've had a handful of guys that put up a solid stretch, but they never seem to live up to the expectations of the role or the contract.

 

[Zerotonine]

Our goalie issues date back even farther. I feel the last consistently solid starting goaltender in Oiler silks was Curtis Joseph. We've had a handful of guys that put up a solid stretch, but they never seem to live up to the expectations of the role or the contract.

Tommy salo was pretty consistent. He'll even Dwayne roloson was below average other then the 06 playoff run IMO

 

[Mr Positive]

Minnesota had more goals scored against them than Edmonton last year and have more against than us this year.

And Seravalli has mentioned multiple times Guerin couldn't give Gustavsson away with his contract and the season he just had.

I googled that and I saw Seravelli only say that Gustavsson could be for sale because they wanted to play Wallstedt. Maybe there is something I didn't see but everything Seravelli was saying was speculation, not rumor. The only firm thing I saw him say was that the Wild still saw him as an up and coming goalie. The reason he is still with Minnesota is because they valued him highly.

Regardless, my main point is that I don't see the point in scapegoating Schwartz. If he were in Minnesota, or any other team, he may have had better success.

My focus is on the players. I don't care if Schwartz is replaced or not. If the approach to player personnel doesn't change then it won't matter who replaces Schwartz

 

[belair]

Tommy salo was pretty consistent. He'll even Dwayne roloson was below average other then the 06 playoff run IMO

I'll concede that he was pretty solid early on in his tenure. And looking back, I never realized that he played as much as he did. Really solid get by the organization.

But those Olympic Games broke him. I do also remember that we ended up getting Tom Gilbert for him.

 

[Zerotonine]

I'll concede that he was pretty solid early on in his tenure. And looking back, I never realize that he played a much as he did. Really solid get by the organization.

But those Olympic Games broke him. I do also remember that we ended up getting Tom Gilbert for him.

Yeah that goal from the red line off the nugget and in destroyed him lol I know i shouldn't laugh but fk that puck was going over-the-net lolol

 

[Shanahanigans]

Really need a player like Holloway in the top 6 in the worst way possible. A top 5 defenseman who can skate and defend, a top 6 forward who can skate and score. A goaltender who isnt constantly letting the team down and for ffs fire Schwartz. Bowman should be canned if teams like the Canucks, Knights, Flames come away improving more than the Oilers after the deadline.

This guy has been trying to fix his mistakes through the waiver wire all season. Unacceptable.

It’s crazy how all of this team’s problems except goaltending would be fixed by just having kept Holloway, Broberg and Foegele lmao. Such a self own by this management.

 

[BIeucheeseWithWings]

He is a deer in the headlights. He just can't play like Yak used to. Doesn't know where to go, where to be, etc. Gets in the way. Same as he was here.

I think he may be on the spectrum.

 

[Soundwave]

It’s crazy how all of this team’s problems except goaltending would be fixed by just having kept Holloway, Broberg and Foegele lmao. Such a self own by this management.

Jackson blew it in the summer, there's no doubt now unfortunately.

 

[McShogun99]

I was piggybacking on the poster's comment with cited Minnesota. There's better models off building a sustaining pipeline of quality NHL goaltenders and prospect pools. Fact remains that Minnesota has built into their strategic plan a short-term approach to improve its goaltending and a long-term one as well. They haven't settled. Goaltending is also a product of team defense. They are a team playing essentially short handed with the big cap penalty for flushing Suter and Parise yet continued to be competitive. Think there's a viable rationale for goaltender statistics based upon the bigger hard organization decisions that were made with the future in mind.

The hotshot goaltender prospect is where he needs to be. Again it's hard to separate goaltender stats from team play so I'd have to look at their farm team to gage the hotshot's actual development path. There's a coherent development plan in place. Whether he gets there is still to be written.

Conversely the Oilers approach has been to invest everywhere else and hope goaltending will hold up. Then they blew their wad on a highly questionable veteran leaving a mid-level prospect to step into the fire.

EDIT: Evaluating a first ballot HOF goaltender's impact solely on SAV% is extremely limited to the depth of leadership, mentorship, and overall consistency the guy has delivered. They've had solid goaltending from him through a retool phase and essentially another goaltender coach/mentor available to their whole team.

The Oilers have never taken goaltending seriously. There's been so many opportunities over the last 35 years to get proven goaltenders and outside of Cujo the team always takes the cheap approach.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The Oilers have never taken goaltending seriously. There's been so many opportunities over the last 35 years to get proven goaltenders and outside of Cujo the team always takes the cheap approach.

Scouting has been an issue at all levels for decades. Just think if this team didn’t win the McDavid lottery. We would be Buffalo.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think if anything it just proves how big of a crapshoot goaltending is. Minnesota is an example of prioritizing building a pipeline from drafting a goalie in the first round to drafting a HOFer mentor backup, and then you have a team like Washington or Vegas that flips cheap goalies from year to year without any great strategy. Do they achieve the same results? Seemingly so. The league is built on either drafting and hitting on the super elites that can be counted on one hand, or rolling the dice on "the rest". The rest being the Gustavssons and Talbots in the league that are bottom-10 one year, top-10 the next or somewhere in the mushy middle.

Hotshot's numbers aren't that bad when one looks into the Iowa team's results. He has North American development samples of seasons that include 38 gp, 2.68 gaa, .908 sv%; 45 gp, 2.70 gaa, .910 sv%; and of course your cited 16 game sample of 3.88 gaa, .871 sv%. All results reflect playing behind a team that has regressed every year from a .549 winning percentage to .431 and this years .360 which is notably third worst in the AHL.

Hotshot also had positive markers when drafted in the first round that included being a Euro teenager playing in elite professional league (which projects in forecasting NHL future goaltenders). National team selections. He was drafted in a first round range in which NHL success broadly drops significantly regardless of position. The guy Edmonton dropped down for is already on his second NHL organization.

I'd hold the franchise model for rebuild/build success is Tampa Bay which used first round pedigree picks to draft an elite forward, defenseman, and goaltender. The model is being emulated in San Jose who traded for their prospective first round pedigree goaltender who looks good. Guerin is building a strong team from the back out with a very, very good young d-corp; skilled young forwards; and a first round pedigree goaltender percolating with the reality of non-linear development ups and downs expected in about 90% of players not named McDavid, Crosby, Makar.

There's lots of ways teams can build. The Washington team you cite won a Cup with a homegrown draft-development group headlined by Holby (who I saw play a ton in junior and believed he would be an NHL starting goaltender). The Capitals also turned a first round drafted tender Varlamov into a first round trade pick that became Filip Forsberg. Grubauer in a post Cup cap dump for a second round pick. They took a first. They used a late first round pick on Sampsonov that didn't work for them but the guy has remained an NHL goaltender.

Gregor did a great Business of Hockey segment with a former NHL assistant GM now consultant who's done a deep dive on the NHL draft over the past two decades. One of his key findings is that NHL teams tended to give up too early on high drafted prospect goaltenders who then find their game one or two organizations later. Devin Dubnyk would be an example.

Goaltender scouting is becoming increasingly more sophisticated. Goaltending as voodoo is a lazy construct.

EDIT: Just to add Vegas, modelled akin to the St. Louis Blues Cup Championship team, has built one of the strongest, deepest, diverse and plus sized d-corps in the league. That's the strength of their team with a team system that protects the scoring areas of the ice with heavy, area defending with strong forward support. It's how they've sustained success and won a Cup despite never having their starting goaltender play a game that year and resiliency to play and succeed with using something like 4 or 5 different goaltenders throughout that season.

The Oilers rotating management groups have in the meantime tried to retread old castaway goaltenders and fumble through building a blueline capable of both winning a Cup but also protecting its vulnerable chronic goaltending issue.

 

[Fourier]

Our goalie issues date back even farther. I feel the last consistently solid starting goaltender in Oiler silks was Curtis Joseph. We've had a handful of guys that put up a solid stretch, but they never seem to live up to the expectations of the role or the contract.

Part of this is that there are not enough good goalies to go around. But we have also been told that Schwartz has significant influence in picking the guys they go get. Still the goalie coaches job is to make the goalies they have as successful as possible. Is there any evidence of him doing that on anything like a consistent basis. Perhaps the most consistent goaltending we have seen in 5 years was Smith after he got his own coach.

I feel a bit awkward arguing this point because I know nothing about the technical aspects of the position. But in the end it is about results. If they aren't there who should be responsible.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Ugly game by Vejmelka today and even though he’s been stellar all year, that’s a sour taste to leave your management team with going into a long break while in the final year of your contract.

Utah is looking ever more outside at the ploffs, and will have to make a choice by the end of the month: extend him and let Ingram/Stauber compete for the backup job next year, or recoup a couple assets and kick that can down the road another season.

This is why I think Skinner might have value to a very small group of teams- if Utah isn’t sure Vejmelka is the guy, or if he doesn’t want to re-sign, flipping him for a package of Stu and a couple of other pieces gives them a safety net of sorts heading into 2025-26.

As it happens Shane Lachance is also a player I see Bill Armstrong coveting since he fits the type of club he is trying to build, so Skinner + Lachance + a later pick is a move I can see Utah entertaining over other pure futures deals if it comes to that.

 

[belair]

Jackson blew it in the summer, there's no doubt now unfortunately.

Paying $6m for Broberg and Holloway wasn't really a favorable option either. I'm sure we can imagine how those contracts would've been judged by yourself at any sign of struggle by either player.

 

[belair]

Part of this is that there are not enough good goalies to go around. But we have also been told that Schwartz has significant influence in picking the guys they go get. Still the goalie coaches job is to make the goalies they have as successful as possible. Is there any evidence of him doing that on anything like a consistent basis. Perhaps the most consistent goaltending we have seen in 5 years was Smith after he got his own coach.

I feel a bit awkward arguing this point because I know nothing about the technical aspects of the position. But in the end it is about results. If they aren't there who should be responsible.

It's a strange position to discuss, because there are so many examples of guys going hot and cold. For years I've always been in favor of the $4m goalie and running tandems. There might be six guys in this league who fill that surefire elite starter role. And Jeremy Swayman is showing you this year how unforgiving the role is.

And when the playoffs roll around some of those elites don't necessarily carry the torch historically.