Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | With Klingberg in the Mix Who Are Our 7D After the Deadline?

[guymez]

The Oilers do have legit top 6 talent, they choose not to play them to their strengths.

The Oilers have been very successful with McDrai split up and even though the Podz-Draisaitl-Arvidsson line didn't score many goals from wing, they were still heavily a + line. After that line got split up, Podkolzin's game in particular has cratered. Shocking.
The team has hit a bit of a rough patch since McDrai was put together, not too surprisingly tbh.

Knoblauch is a great defensive coach, best of the McDrai era by a significant margin, but he's not so good at piecing together forward lines. The Skinner deployment is baffling, the reliance on Ryan for so long was confusing, his constant line juggling, the now reliance on McDrai etc. Just too much chaos with his decision making.
The Oilers have 4 legit top 6 wingers. Hyman, RNH, Skinner and Arvidsson. Arvidsson hasn't potted the goals but I think they will come and Skinner who has done everything asked of him yet gets very little top 6 opportunity, well I've said my piece on that already. There's top 6 options if they are used correctly.

We completely disagree here...IMO Podkolzin, Arvidsson et al are not legit top 6 wingers.
There is no contending team worried about the Oilers scoring depth...and for good reason.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Hey Burnt. Thanks for the reply.

I’m reluctant to continue to dwell on commenting on the forwards because the situation I was referencing has/had nothing to do with forwards.

However, to help me understand your perspective, do you believe that filling 2 forward PK spots from 12 skaters is the same as filling 2 defence PK spots from 6? Fundamentally I don’t. You usually will have more options to backfill PK spots from forward ranks simply based on numbers. Now I will agree that is also dependant on other things like roster construction etc..

Back to the defence corps and backfilling perhaps the most important PKer in Eckholm and my comment that I agreed with Strudwick and Brown that it’s a reasonable expectation to have seen Bouchard step in over Stecher when 14 was out. This was all prefaced by the fact that Stecher was unable to move net front players because he doesn’t have the skill set and size to be effective in that role.

I look at the numbers and minimal defense depth and I would have expected that Bouchard be able to step forward in the described situation at this point in his evolution. If he can’t, it just reinforces arguments that he’s mostly one dimensional. I like Evan, I’d like to see more from him, to see him buildout these aspects of his game

That’s all I was suggesting.

Cheers.

I'll say it is a fair point with regards to having more forward options to fill the PK minutes, but the underlying point I was getting at it is I consider Bouchard to be one of 3 central pillars of this team and I think the fans and media criticize him far too much for how much he contributes to the team, particularly when contrasted against McDrai (this isn't me saying he is above criticism).

I'd also agree with your point on he should pick up some PK minutes with Ekholm out if we were tied or ahead in the game, but with us trailing and needing to play catch up, you want your best offensive defensemen in a role where they can put up offense. On top of that he did deliver on the offense getting 2 points, playing 27 mins, and according to the analytic charts + eye test he was the best player in the game, but for some that was still not enough.

While I don't think this holds up over a prolonged period of time, the stats actually say Bouchard is our best PKer

(2022-25) Oilers 4v5 PK GA/60 rates: (lower is better)

Nurse= 9.75
Kulak= 8.67
Ekholm= 7.21
Emberson= 5.58 (85.6 mins in a little more than a half a season with us)
Stecher= 5.56 (only 21.4 mins, doesn't account for ARI PK mins)
Bouchard= 4.44 (only 81 mins in 3 seasons)

Also Nurse is one of our primary crease clearers and he was not only on the ice for that PK goal in question, but is generally awful in the role and I already checked Klingberg and he sucks on the PK too.

 

[CupofOil]

We completely disagree here...IMO Podkolzin, Arvidsson et al are not legit top 6 wingers.

I never said that Podkolzin was a top 6 winger but that line was definitely playing well until they got broken up.
Arvidsson is a top 6 winger, has been his whole career. The goals will come IMO.
Skinner is a top 6 winger, they have 4 of them and enough options to split McDrai. This isn't the 2018-2022 Oilers anymore, they have options with proven track records to play with the elites.

 

[guymez]

I never said that Podkolzin was a top 6 winger but that line was definitely playing well until they got broken up.
Arvidsson is a top 6 winger, has been his whole career. The goals will come IMO.
Skinner is a top 6 winger, they have 4 of them and enough options to split McDrai. This isn't the 2018-2022 Oilers anymore, they have options with proven track records to play with the elites.

Podkolzin has played well for his entire tenure as an Oiler. You wont get an argument from me on that.
He just cant score. He was playing over 13 minutes a game (the vast majority of that with Draisaitl) and he has 6 goals to show for it. Arvidsson is playing almost 15 minutes a game at 5x5 (much of that with Draisailtl) and he has 6 goals...not nearly good enough. He has even played on the PP a little as well.
Skinner was bought out by Buffalo for a reason and that reason isnt because he is a legit top 6 winger at this point in his career.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I never said that Podkolzin was a top 6 winger but that line was definitely playing well until they got broken up.
Arvidsson is a top 6 winger, has been his whole career. The goals will come IMO.
Skinner is a top 6 winger, they have 4 of them and enough options to split McDrai. This isn't the 2018-2022 Oilers anymore, they have options with proven track records to play with the elites.

and yet most of the wingers sans Hyman have rather disappointing numbers. And even Hyman is nowhere near last year's pace. Not that he was ever going to score 50 again but still.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Podkolzin has played well for his entire tenure as an Oiler. You wont get an argument from me on that.
He just cant score. Neither can Arvidsson.
Skinner was bought out by Buffalo for a reason and that reason isnt because he is a legit top 6 winger at this point in his career.

Skinner was bought out because he wasn’t worth 9m.

He had 24 goals and was clearly a legit top 6 winger last year

 

[Soundwave]

The Oilers do have legit top 6 talent, they choose not to play them to their strengths.

The Oilers have been very successful with McDrai split up and even though the Podz-Draisaitl-Arvidsson line didn't score many goals from wing, they were still heavily a + line. After that line got split up, Podkolzin's game in particular has cratered. Shocking.
The team has hit a bit of a rough patch since McDrai was put together, not too surprisingly tbh.

Knoblauch is a great defensive coach, best of the McDrai era by a significant margin, but he's not so good at piecing together forward lines. The Skinner deployment is baffling, the reliance on Ryan for so long was confusing, his constant line juggling, the now reliance on McDrai etc. Just too much chaos with his decision making.
The Oilers have 4 legit top 6 wingers. Hyman, RNH, Skinner and Arvidsson. Arvidsson hasn't potted the goals but I think they will come and Skinner who has done everything asked of him yet gets very little top 6 opportunity, well I've said my piece on that already. There's top 6 options if they are used correctly.

Knob (or Coffey, not sure who is most responsible) is massive upgrade on Woodcroft defensively, but a downgrade on him offensively it looks like.

It's still a pretty good offensive team but largely because all the offense is driven through about 3 players (McDavid, Drai, Hyman) who score quite a bit and a PP that still has some teeth to it.

Under Woodcroft, we had the highest scoring version of the Oilers in the McDavid era, but guy couldn't coach defensive structure to save his life (well, job anyway).

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Knob (or Coffey, not sure who is most responsible) is massive upgrade on Woodcroft defensively, but a downgrade on him offensively it looks like.

It's still a pretty good offensive team but largely because all the offense is driven through about 3 players (McDavid, Drai, Hyman) who score quite a bit and a PP that still has some teeth to it.

Under Woodcroft, we had the highest scoring version of the Oilers in the McDavid era, but guy couldn't coach defensive structure to save his life (well, job anyway).

You would think they wouldn’t be scoring at 2.5 g/60 with mcdrai off the ice if he was such a bad offensive coach.

 

[CupofOil]

Podkolzin has played well for his entire tenure as an Oiler. You wont get an argument from me on that.
He just cant score. Neither can Arvidsson.
Skinner was bought out by Buffalo for a reason and that reason isnt because he is a legit top 6 winger at this point in his career.

Arvidsson had 60 points just two years ago and 15 in 18 last year on Kings teams that couldn't score and didn't have Leon Draisaitl, he's a top 6 player. Make it work
Skinner got bought out because he made $9m/yr, Skinner has historically been a 30 goal scorer top 6 forward, he has played very well since his demotion and deserves a top 6 chance. Make it work, give him a chance.
These have been top 6 forwards their entire career and now they're not all of a sudden just like THAT?

Sorry but I don't buy that Knoblauch has all these garbage wingers so he's forced to put McDrai together, they aren't littered with a bunch of Puljujarvis, Yamamotos, Ratties and Reiders anymore. There are 4 wingers who have been top 6 players their entire careers and aren't like 40 years old. Make it work, stop with the McDrai nonsense outside of special situations when they're down a goal late. The team is better when the two elites are running their own line.

 

[Soundwave]

You would think they wouldn’t be scoring at 2.5 g/60 with mcdrai off the ice if he was such a bad offensive coach.

We've definitely gone back in terms of goal scoring some. 22-23 Oilers under Woody blew the doors off the league and were no.1 in scoring to the tune of 3.96 goals per game.

This year we're still decent in that regard, but at 3.28 goals per game is a notable decline from that high point.

But obviously I would still rather have Knob/Coffey because the GA is so much better but yeah Knob has to look at bit at himself as to how he handles the forwards here IMO.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Arvidsson had 60 points just two years ago and 15 in 18 last year, he's a top 6 player. Make it work
Skinner got bought out because he made $9m/yr, Skinner has historically been a 30 goal scorer top 6 forward, he has played very well since his demotion and deserves a top 6 chance.
These have been top 6 forwards their entire career and now they're not all of a sudden just like THAT?

Sorry but I don't buy that Knoblauch has all these garbage wingers so he's forced to put McDrai together. There are 4 wingers who have been top 6 players their entire careers and aren't like 40 years old. Make it work, stop with the McDrai nonsense outside of special situations when they're down a goal late. The team is better when the two elites are running their own line.

You're not going to get any argument from me about splitting McDrai up but man the Tobias Reider curse is real.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Arvidsson had 60 points just two years ago and 15 in 18 last year on Kings teams that couldn't score and didn't have Leon Draisaitl, he's a top 6 player. Make it work
Skinner got bought out because he made $9m/yr, Skinner has historically been a 30 goal scorer top 6 forward, he has played very well since his demotion and deserves a top 6 chance. Make it work, give him a chance.
These have been top 6 forwards their entire career and now they're not all of a sudden just like THAT?

Sorry but I don't buy that Knoblauch has all these garbage wingers so he's forced to put McDrai together, they aren't littered with a bunch of Puljujarvis, Yamamotos, Ratties and Reiders anymore. There are 4 wingers who have been top 6 players their entire careers and aren't like 40 years old. Make it work, stop with the McDrai nonsense outside of special situations when they're down a goal late. The team is better when the two elites are running their own line.

I think he puts them together when one of them is sick/injured.

 

[guymez]

Arvidsson had 60 points just two years ago and 15 in 18 last year on Kings teams that couldn't score and didn't have Leon Draisaitl, he's a top 6 player. Make it work
Skinner got bought out because he made $9m/yr, Skinner has historically been a 30 goal scorer top 6 forward, he has played very well since his demotion and deserves a top 6 chance. Make it work, give him a chance.
These have been top 6 forwards their entire career and now they're not all of a sudden just like THAT?

Sorry but I don't buy that Knoblauch has all these garbage wingers so he's forced to put McDrai together. There are 4 wingers who have been top 6 players their entire careers and aren't like 40 years old. Make it work, stop with the McDrai nonsense outside of special situations when they're down a goal late. The team is better when the two elites are running their own line.

The experiment has gone on long enough IMO. They are playing game 54 tonight.
This current mix of players isnt working. Hoping for a sudden change at this point in time (with less than 30 games remaining) is a fools game.

Also...Knoblauch isnt an idiot. He is a very smart coach.
He is putting McDrai together for a reason (as I stated in an earlier post) and its not because he doesnt know any better.

 

[Soundwave]

Knob has some blame for sure. Skinner has been a plus player for the last 12 games (+4) while scoring a few goals in that span too and still can't get into the top 6.

Arvidsson played 1 game with McDavid, immediately scored and had a primary assist to go with it that game and then was promptly removed from that line the very next game and never tried there again.

Like these are just baffling decisions.

 

[CupofOil]

The experiment has gone on long enough IMO. They are playing game 54 tonight.
This current mix of players isnt working.

Also...Knoblauch isnt an idiot.
He is putting McDrai together for a reason (as I stated in an earlier post) and its not because he doesnt know any better.

He's not an idiot, very good coach, but he hasn't handled the forwards correctly IMO.
The team has played worse in general since McDrai was put together. Apparently there's a flu bug going around but the forward lines are just too imbalanced when they're paired together and the team gets leakier defensively because the non-McDrai lines are just thrown together and blended and McDrai can be porous defensively, they tend to focus more on two way hockey when they're running their own line.

My general point is that they have the personnel to keep the centers split.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

the reason why we are constantly on the lookout for second line talent is because we either bring in players that are over the hill (Arvidsson), rejects from other teams (Skinner, Kane) or try to elevate traditionally bottom-6 players (Podkolzin, Foegele).

For once I’d like us to target a 20-something year old who is at the beginning of their career trajectory and has actual top 6 talent.

Could’ve been Holloway but oh well

 

[K1984]

He's not an idiot, very good coach, but he hasn't handled the forwards correctly IMO.
The team has played worse in general since McDrai was put together. Apparently there's a flu bug going around but the forward lines are just too imbalanced when they're paired together and the team gets leakier defensively because the non-McDrai lines are just thrown together and blended and McDrai can be porous defensively, they tend to focus more on two way hockey when they're running their own line.

My general point is that they have the personnel to keep the centers split.

I agree in general, but when the team is sluggish and is having trouble scoring going to 97+29 is the right thing to do IMO.

When the team isn't feeling it they don't produce anything apart, and the top line usually gets caved defensively when they're in that "mode" anyways. There have been a few games this year where the team was bad and generating nothing with them apart, only to get a spark when they got put together.

Hate it as a long term tactic unless we add another stud top 6 player for the second line, but 100% agree with it when things aren't going right offensively.

 

[brentashton]

I'll say it is a fair point with regards to having more forward options to fill the PK minutes, but the underlying point I was getting at it is I consider Bouchard to be one of 3 central pillars of this team and I think the fans and media criticize him far too much for how much he contributes to the team, particularly when contrasted against McDrai (this isn't me saying he is above criticism).

I'd also agree with your point on he should pick up some PK minutes with Ekholm out if we were tied or ahead in the game, but with us trailing and needing to play catch up, you want your best offensive defensemen in a role where they can put up offense. On top of that he did deliver on the offense getting 2 points, playing 27 mins, and according to the analytic charts + eye test he was the best player in the game, but for some that was still not enough.

While I don't think this holds up over a prolonged period of time, the stats actually say Bouchard is our best PKer

(2022-25) Oilers 4v5 PK GA/60 rates: (lower is better)

Nurse= 9.75
Kulak= 8.67
Ekholm= 7.21
Emberson= 5.58 (85.6 mins in a little more than a half a season with us)
Stecher= 5.56 (only 21.4 mins, doesn't account for ARI PK mins)
Bouchard= 4.44 (only 81 mins in 3 seasons)

Also Nurse is one of our primary crease clearers and he was not only on the ice for that PK goal in question, but is generally awful in the role and I already checked Klingberg and he sucks on the PK too.

BB, all fair points that you raise. I appreciate the thoughtful and reasonable dialogue. (Sometimes that isn’t easily found around here, and I’m not blameless in that). Thanks for the back and forth.

I certainly agree that, as you say, perhaps this was a case of KK timing his use of Bouchard with it being a one goal game. I hadn’t thought of that angle.

In the end I think we both agree we want Bouchard to excel and continue to achieve his best, as a player.

Looking forward to tonight’s game.

 

[guymez]

He's not an idiot, very good coach, but he hasn't handled the forwards correctly IMO.
The team has played worse in general since McDrai was put together. Apparently there's a flu bug going around but the forward lines are just too imbalanced when they're paired together and the team gets leakier defensively because the non-McDrai lines are just thrown together and blended and McDrai can be porous defensively, they tend to focus more on two way hockey when they're running their own line.

My general point is that they have the personnel to keep the centers split.

Its possible that the illness issue (fatigue) is big influence on what we are seeing defenisvley the last few weeks.
They have not been good at all in that regard. So fatigue could be a genuine concern.

Thankfully 98% of the team will be getting a much needed rest during the 4 Nations stuff but the most important player on this team wont be resting at all.

I am not at all a fan of that reality.

The scoring depth has been very poor since the season started. If Draisaitl and McDavid dont score this team doesnt win very much.

Here we are in game 54 and that hasnt changed. I think that Bowman needs to be taking a serious look at that.

 

[CupofOil]

I agree in general, but when the team is sluggish and is having trouble scoring going to 97+29 is the right thing to do IMO.

When the team isn't feeling it they don't produce anything apart, and the top line usually gets caved defensively when they're in that "mode" anyways. There have been a few games this year where the team was bad and generating nothing with them apart, only to get a spark when they got put together.

Hate it as a long term tactic unless we add another stud top 6 player for the second line, but 100% agree with it when things aren't going right offensively.

Agreed, I said that in a previous post. It's a great nuclear option to have like down 1 late against the Blues last night but not as a go to option for complete games and many games in a row like as of late. They can win that way of course but over the long haul and for a playoff run, they have to split them up IMO and they have the personnel finally to do it.

What frustrates me is that they do have top 6 options, they're just not using one key guy who has earned a promotion and has many 30+ goal seasons.

 

[Soundwave]

Its possible that the illness issue (fatigue) is big influence on what we are seeing defenisvley the last few weeks.
They have not been good at all in that regard. So fatigue could be a genuine concern.

That being said the scoring depth has been very poor since the season started. If Draisaitl and McDavid dont score this team doesnt win very much.

Here we are in game 54 and that hasnt changed. I think that Bowman needs to be taking a serious look at that.

I mean that hasn't changed in like 9 years, lol. We really have never had a reliable 2nd line combination scoring at 5 on 5.

We've had spurts here and there of a line combo taking off (Foegele + Drai + McLeod played ok for about two weeks last season in late December I think and then petered off and were broke up) but nothing that ever sticks.

 

[guymez]

Agreed, I said that in a previous post. It's a great nuclear option to have like down 1 late against the Blues last night but not as a go to option for complete games and many games in a row like as of late. They can win that way of course but over the long haul and for a playoff run, they have to split them up IMO and they have the personnel finally to do it.

I completely agree that splitting up McDrai is the way to go...especially in the playoffs.
The problem is that they dont have the personnel to do it though.
If they did then it would have happened by now with almost 3/4 of the season in the books.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I wonder which AHL/NHL tweener center/forward the Oilers will trade for with Lane Pedersen going down for the rest of the year.

Maybe Austin Watson (from Detroit) for Phil Kemp?

Plus Watson could be called up for toughness down the stretch

 

[McDNicks17]

I wonder which AHL/NHL tweener center/forward the Oilers will trade for with Lane Pedersen going down for the rest of the year.

Maybe Austin Watson (from Detroit) for Phil Kemp?

Plus Watson could be called up for toughness down the stretch

It sucks since Pederson and Savoie had great chemistry, but they're still pretty deep down there. I don't think they'll add anyone to replace him. Derek Ryan is kind of already that too.

 

[foshizzle]

and yet most of the wingers sans Hyman have rather disappointing numbers. And even Hyman is nowhere near last year's pace. Not that he was ever going to score 50 again but still.

Skinner has the second most goals/60. He is doing what he can given linemates and opportunities. It’s on the coaching staff to optimize this player