Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | With Klingberg in the Mix Who Are Our 7D After the Deadline?

[Soundwave]

lol @ the excuses you're making

embarrassing

Injuries are legitimate unless you want to make the case here that the two of those guys were faking their injuries.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Goaltending isn't "voodoo" ... Ottawa upgraded in net, Washington upgraded in net, Colorado has upgraded in net, Toronto upgraded in net, LA is even getting a good season out of Kuemper, San Jose found a potential future starter in Askarov already, Vancouver found Lankinen for peanuts and he has better numbers than Skinner on a worse team.

"Goalies are voodoo" is a mantra for people that would have been blaming witches for droughts and disease in the 1700s. If you look at underlying numbers, it's actually pretty easy to figure out who is a good bet and who is a bad one. The folks that don't- both in our org and in the fanbase- expose themselves as luddites who shouldn't be making decisions in a billion-dollar business like the NHL.

 

[Soundwave]

"Goalies are voodoo" is a mantra for people that would have been blaming witches for droughts and disease in the 1700s. If you look at underlying numbers, it's actually pretty easy to figure out who is a good bet and who is a bad one. The folks that don't- both in our org and in the fanbase- expose themselves as luddites who shouldn't be making decisions in a billion-dollar business like the NHL.

It's used a lot here because the fanbase here probably doesn't even know what a good goalie looks like anymore and just think this is how every team operates (when it's not).

Out of the last 15 years can you think of an NHL team that has had a worse lineup of goalies than this franchise?

I don't think I can. Seattle has only been in the league for 4 years and already seems to have found a solid starter in Daccord, we're still wandering the wilds in this area 10 years after winning the McLottery.

If the fate of the planet depended on the Oilers front office being able to find a legit really good goalie, the planet would be in a lot of trouble.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Injuries are legitimate unless you want to make the case here that the two of those guys were faking their injuries.

legitimate but not the reason they sucked...sorry, don't buy that

 

[Soundwave]

legitimate but not the reason they sucked...sorry, don't buy that

So you don't think injuries impact performance? lol, ok, yeah you can make a legit point or I'm moving on with this conversation, not worth the effort.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

So you don't think injuries impact performance? lol, ok, yeah you can make a legit point or I'm moving on with this conversation, not worth the effort.

if they're that injured, they wouldn't have played. end of story

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

We need a goaltending upgrade, mostly everybody agrees with that (outside of Oilers reporters, which is very strange), and people are throwing out ideas, which is great and all, but we all have day jobs. None of us are doing this full time and with access to private advanced stats databases, professional scouting reports and insider knowledge. The question is: do the people who DO have access to those pieces of information also think that we need a goaltending upgrade?

My gut is telling me that they are perfectly fine with Skinner in net. Again, I couldn't disagree with this assessment more, but that does appear to be what the Oilers management group thinks. Stauffer never talks about getting a goalie upgrade, the big reporters never talk about getting a goalie upgrade. If the Oilers were actually discussing this internally, we would hear rumblings about it, but its crickets on this front.

I have no logically explanation for this, but its the conclusion I've come to.

I do believe they aren't doing anything about the goaltending. I think we need to shift the discussions around here as to how we can use this cap space we have and upgrade the roster. (goalie aside)

 

[Spawn]

I think you are making my case for me. Its pretty easy to list trades for goalies that turned out well in the short term. It is just as easy to list more moves that turned out badly right away or even after some short term success. Moreover even the short term successes often end up being pumpkins. That was precisely my point. Doing something for that sake alone could put you in a worse position.

Which version of Blackwood are the Avs getting for $5.25M next year? The guy who put up over .940 6 times in his first 10 games or the guy who just had 5 straight sub .900 games in a row before getting a shutout? Or maybe you just don't know! What kills the Oilers is not Skinners sv% it is his inconsistency. If he played .900-.905 hockey game in and game out the Oilers would win the Cup. And by the way how is it that Colorado was in a position to trade for Blackwood. Was it because they thought they had their guy in Georgiev until he too turned into a pumpkin. They didn't pay a lot to get him a 3rd and a 5th but they thought they had their guy when he put up a .918 sv% in his first year. Then he went back to being the goalie he always was.

I actually agree that it is easy to trade for a goalie. Where I disagree is that it is easy to make an improvement if what you are trying to improve is the consistency and reliability of your goaltending. At one point people on here were talking about Jonathan Quick as a target after he started the season with 5 straight .900 or better games and two shutouts. How's he doing of late. Let's look at Lankinen's last 10 games

.773
.929
.876
.941
.792
.889
1.000
.818
.970
.923

That is exactly what you are trying to avoid. You were also waxing on how brilliant Vegas was in identifying Hill. He has now gone back to being what he was short of about a half a season.

I am not trying to make excuses for anyone. My opinion is that the Oilers need to upgrade. I just don't agree with your notion that any move is better than none.

I think your concerns about long term viability of any goalie available is legitimate.

I just don’t think that should be the concern right now. We don’t need to find a long term starting goalie. We just need to find someone who can maybe get hot for 2 months come playoff time in case Skinner can’t.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Doesn’t Gibson only have like 2 years on his deal? With the cap going up there’s not a ton of risk. I just don’t wanna pay an iffy goalie for 5 years like we did Campbell, that’s when you get burned.

Gibson with a good defense in front of him would be interesting

Agreed. He has a .913 save percentage on a garbage team. Why are people honestly saying this wouldn't be an improvement?

Why are you and so many others so dumb to expect peak Klingberg after two games?

Lol its Oiler fans. You weren't expecting this?

Defensive issues aside, since he's only played 2 games in a year and a half. I think he's been brilliant offensively. He played over 20 minutes already but he probably would've had less if Ekholm had been in. He had an assist on the tying goal as well until it got overturned

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

"Goalies are voodoo" is a mantra for people that would have been blaming witches for droughts and disease in the 1700s. If you look at underlying numbers, it's actually pretty easy to figure out who is a good bet and who is a bad one. The folks that don't- both in our org and in the fanbase- expose themselves as luddites who shouldn't be making decisions in a billion-dollar business like the NHL.

There’s a few witches in the Oilers org.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

yeah I don't lay all of our goaltending issues at Skinner's feet. He's 26 and was never actually supposed to be our starter. A good backup was I think his projection and he's exceeded that. The issue is management for the last decade has been okay with "good enough" goaltending and that's ridiculous. Hell arguably in this team's entire NHL history they've been okay with "good enough" goaltending.

 

[aspin3]

No it's really not. Even his .899 in San Jose the year they were tanking was not bad, if the Oilers are smart (they're not, but if they were) they should actually be looking at that, guys who have better than expected save percentage or GSAA on really, really bad teams. That's generally a pretty good tell of a player that could break out on a better team.

It's not that shocking that Blackwood is doing well, his game was coming together a while ago, the numbers were just trailing being on one of the worst (the worst?) team in the NHL until this year.

Goaltending isn't "voodoo" ... Ottawa upgraded in net, Washington upgraded in net, Colorado has upgraded in net, Toronto upgraded in net, LA is even getting a good season out of Kuemper, San Jose found a potential future starter in Askarov already, Vancouver found Lankinen for peanuts and he has better numbers than Skinner on a worse team.

The Oilers are just a management team full of excuses.

You do realize that Lankinen's save % is .02 better than Skinner's currently right? It reminds me of last year we had many many many on here calling to get Grubauer as our upgrade. Crickets on that. That is the issue with GM fanboys on here. You think Woll is the Big upgrade Toronto got? Or Stolarz short little run that is all of 17 games? NO ONE....no one would have picked Stolarz as the upgrade a Stanley Cup finalist should go after as their #1 during the summmer.

 

[Soundwave]

yeah I don't lay all of our goaltending issues at Skinner's feet. He's 26 and was never actually supposed to be our starter. A good backup was I think his projection and he's exceeded that. The issue is management for the last decade has been okay with "good enough" goaltending and that's ridiculous. Hell arguably in this team's entire NHL history they've been okay with "good enough" goaltending.

Since about 1998 or so ... definitely. Under Sather the Oilers had good goaltending, after that it's gone from not the greatest under Lowe to downright the "worst lineup of goalies in the last 10-15 years" levels of bad post-Lowe.

The only time they've really gone out of their way to spend on goaltending in modern history was Dwayne Roloson in 2006 and that move took a 8th seed hockey team to a Stanley Cup Finals.

 

[Soundwave]

You do realize that Lankinen's save % is .02 better than Skinner's currently right? It reminds me of last year we had many many many on here calling to get Grubauer as our upgrade. Crickets on that. That is the issue with GM fanboys on here. You think Woll is the Big upgrade Toronto got? Or Stolarz short little run that is all of 17 games? NO ONE....no one would have picked Stolarz as the upgrade a Stanley Cup finalist should go after as their #1 during the summmer.

Actually he had very good numbers in Florida. Stolarz would've been a good add.

That's the other problem is this whole idea of "if it's not literally DOMINIK HASEK 2.0 we can't do ANYTHNIG!"

That's holding the entire franchise hostage.

 

[Mr Positive]

Actually he had very good numbers in Florida. Stolarz would've been a good add.

That's the other problem is this whole idea of "if it's not literally DOMINIK HASEK 2.0 we can't do ANYTHNIG!"

That's holding the entire franchise hostage.

There's also a lot of people saying that Skinner is "good enough" or "not that bad". I actually agree that our goaltending is good enough to win a cup. That's not how it works though. Winning is about odds. It's not about what is good enough. It's about maximizing the odds.

Maybe management doesn't like the idea of adding a goalie because there is a chance they don't even play.

I'd be down for adding an interesting add like Lyon or Vejmelka just as injury insurance. The possibility that they steal the net with great play under Knoblauch's system is only half the value.

 

[K1984]

There's also a lot of people saying that Skinner is "good enough" or "not that bad". I actually agree that our goaltending is good enough to win a cup. That's not how it works though. Winning is about odds. It's not about what is good enough. It's about maximizing the odds.

Maybe management doesn't like the idea of adding a goalie because there is a chance they don't even play.

I'd be down for adding an interesting add like Lyon or Vejmelka just as injury insurance. The possibility that they steal the net with great play under Knoblauch's system is only half the value.

I think this is what it probably comes down to.

We have extremely limited resources to acquire multiple impactful pieces. A player like Vejmelka might cost us a good chunk of the resources we have to trade, and it's possible we see him very little or not at all in the playoffs.

The playoffs are short, and the decisions are fleeting. For Skinner to get taken out, he's either going to have to be really bad, or Vejmelka would have to be really good. I don't think it's likely that either occurs such that it makes it a no brainer to supplant the starter. So we would have to be in the playoffs and Skinner would have to get to the point of being about to throw away the series to get taken out, just like last year. Then Pickard came in, played great, and then still got taken back out. There is a lot of talk about Skinner's performance in Game 7 of the Final, but if all things are equal he's starting that game anyways even if we had Vejmelka. Getting a better backup isn't going to change that Skinner is the starter, and things like "he sucked in Game 7" can only really be rectified in hindsight.

If we managed a blip with Pickard last year and it worked, why dump a bunch of assets on solving something that wasn't practically needed last year in the exact scenario everyone fears (Skinner tubes a series). I'm not saying I agree (and I don't), but the opinion of "we shouldn't spank a ton of assets on a backup goalie" isn't out of left field.

 

[Soundwave]

I think this is what it probably comes down to.

We have extremely limited resources to acquire multiple impactful pieces. A player like Vejmelka might cost us a good chunk of the resources we have to trade, and it's possible we see him very little or not at all in the playoffs.

The playoffs are short, and the decisions are fleeting. For Skinner to get taken out, he's either going to have to be really bad, or Vejmelka would have to be really good. I don't think it's likely that either occurs such that it makes it a no brainer to supplant the starter. So we would have to be in the playoffs and Skinner would have to get to the point of being about to throw away the series to get taken out, just like last year. Then Pickard came in, played great, and then still got taken back out. There is a lot of talk about Skinner's performance in Game 7 of the Final, but if all things are equal he's starting that game anyways even if we had Vejmelka. Getting a better backup isn't going to change that Skinner is the starter, and things like "he sucked in Game 7" can only really be rectified in hindsight.

If we managed a blip with Pickard last year and it worked, why dump a bunch of assets on solving something that wasn't practically needed last year in the exact scenario everyone fears (Skinner tubes a series). I'm not saying I agree (and I don't), but the opinion of "we shouldn't spank a ton of assets on a backup goalie" isn't out of left field.

The problem is with incompetent management.

2.5 million on say Stolarz I think anyone can agree now would've yielded the team likely far better results than spending 4 million on Arvidsson, 3 million on Skinner, 3 million on Henrique.

They spent 10 million to get 3 guys producing at a Kailer Yamamoto in a bad year level.

So now they may have to spend even MORE to fix that f*** up, but this is why as a franchise it's hard to get ahead.

Imagine you have a roommate and you both pool together $500 for groceries for the month, and they spent already $350 the first week and didn't buy anything that was actually needed. You ought to slap your roommate upside the head for being a dumb ass.

This team needs to be a lot better in how it operates. It's hard enough already without shooting yourself in the foot multiple times.

 

[K1984]

The problem is with incompetent management.

2.5 million on say Stolarz I think anyone can agree now would've yielded the team likely far better results than spending 4 million on Arvidsson, 3 million on Skinner, 3 million on Henrique.

They spent 10 million to get 3 guys producing at a Kailer Yamamoto in a bad year level.

So now they may have to spend even MORE to fix that f*** up, but this is why as a franchise it's hard to get ahead.

Imagine you have a roommate and you both pool together $500 for groceries for the month, and they spent already $350 the first week and didn't buy anything that was actually needed. You ought to slap your roommate upside the head for being a dumb ass.

This team needs to be a lot better in how it operates.

I don't waste my time obsessing about the things that "should have" been done with the benefit of hindsight exclusively.

Pretty much none of what you said is relevant to the question of what should be done about the goalies at the deadline.

 

[VeteranPresence]

I don't waste my time obsessing about the things that "should have" been done with the benefit of hindsight exclusively.

This is a really great way to avoid ever having to criticize anyone over anything.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't waste my time obsessing about the things that "should have" been done with the benefit of hindsight exclusively.

Pretty much none of what you said is relevant to the question of what should be done about the goalies at the deadline.

I mean they have a shit ton of salary right now tied up in forwards that are underperforming or not liekly wise to keep on the payroll for one.

They could move some of that out, who helps you win a Cup more at this stage? John Gibson or the shell of Evander Kane after 50 surgeries and no game time in a year at an age where many power forwards fall of a cliff anyway? I'm not opposed to shipping Arvidsson's ass out either, who wants this salary back for 4 million next year?

If they're too lazy to do anything, at bare f***ing minimum, show at least you're capable of coming to work with your pants on as a front office and acquire a James Reimer at least. We need a third goalie in case there is an injury, Reimer wouldn't surprise me at all if he takes Skinner's job. He has been an actual NHL starter in his career, not a career AHL guy like Pickard, it won't be so easy for Skinner to stay above even a Reimer tier goalie.

 

[K1984]

I mean they have a shit ton of salary right now tied up in forwards that are underperforming or not liekly wise to keep on the payroll for one.

They could move some of that out, who helps you win a Cup more at this stage? John Gibson or the shell of Evander Kane after 50 surgeries and no game time in a year at an age where many power forwards fall of a cliff anyway? I'm not opposed to shipping Arvidsson's ass out either, who wants this salary back for 4 million next year?

If they're too lazy to do anything, at bare f***ing minimum, show at least you're capable of coming to work with your pants on as a front office and acquire a James Reimer at least. We need a third goalie in case there is an injury, Reimer wouldn't surprise me at all if he takes Skinner's job. He has been an actual NHL starter in his career, not a career AHL guy like Pickard, it won't be so easy for Skinner to stay above even a Reimer tier goalie.

James Reimer probably doesn't supplant Pickard at this point.

Part of the problem is some people perspective of the goaltending relative to the rest of the league is so out to lunch that statements like "Jame Reimer could supplant Skinner!" are genuinely believed.

 

[Soundwave]

James Reimer probably doesn't supplant Pickard at this point.

Part of the problem is some people perspective of the goaltending relative to the rest of the league is so out to lunch that statements like "Jame Reimer could supplant Skinner!" are genuinely believed.

A) I think he would actually supplant both Pickard and Skinner, .905 in Buffalo, I doubt Skinner or Pickard would have that number there. Reimer behind a good defence has a very good oppurtunity here to kick the tandem here in the nuts and take their job, he has been a starter in this league before.

B) We need a 3rd goalie anyway, if there is an injury to Pickard or Skinner we are stuck in a situation where Rodrigue or Delia might have to be called on the play in the playoffs which is unacceptable. Rodrigue has 0 NHL experience and Delia is terribad.

At 1 million dollars you can probably get Reimer for a bag of popcorn (4th or 5th round pick) if this team can't even do THAT much for goaltending they are plainly the worst run org in the NHL.

 

[foshizzle]

I was being sarcastic at people calling that nice lateral. Like he wouldn't have helped us.

Just crying over spilled milk now, but I really wanted Blackwood.

Levels better than what we have.

No guarantees in life, but he was prime for the taking.

Oh…lol….my bad!

 

[GhostfaceWu]

You do realize that Lankinen's save % is .02 better than Skinner's currently right? It reminds me of last year we had many many many on here calling to get Grubauer as our upgrade. Crickets on that. That is the issue with GM fanboys on here. You think Woll is the Big upgrade Toronto got? Or Stolarz short little run that is all of 17 games? NO ONE....no one would have picked Stolarz as the upgrade a Stanley Cup finalist should go after as their #1 during the summmer.

Would love to see receipts on anyone wanting grubauer.

 

[Soundwave]

Agreed. He has a .913 save percentage on a garbage team. Why are people honestly saying this wouldn't be an improvement?


Lol its Oiler fans. You weren't expecting this?

Defensive issues aside, since he's only played 2 games in a year and a half. I think he's been brilliant offensively. He played over 20 minutes already but he probably would've had less if Ekholm had been in. He had an assist on the tying goal as well until it got overturned

Gibson would go Roloson 2006 on this team IMO. I think there's a very good chance.

Going from that dumpster fire of never contending to actually having a legit chance not just at playoffs but a Cup would probably motivate him something fierce on top of the fact that he is having a great season.

5th best in the NHL for goals saved above expected I believe. Behind Coffey/Knob's top end defensive structure that could be a lot like the jolt the 06 team got with Roloson.

Athletically it's a monstrous upgrade too, Gibson is still probably one of the 5-6 most athletic goalies in the league and still only 31 (young for a goalie), lateral movement in net and ability to make "impossible" saves is outstanding.

The psychological effect on our opponents would be something too, it's bad enough to have to chase McDavid and Draisaitl around all game, if the Oilers have a goalie that frustrates opponents with highlight reel saves it can devastate an opponent's belief that they can beat you. Pittsburgh basically rode that exact formula to 3 Cups.