Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[Fourier]

That appears to be what Puckpedia is claiming and I’m not aware of any past examples which would contradict that view.

That is surprising.

 

[TheNumber4]

Savoie is going to get better and better down in the A. He needs to be there until mid Feb at min. Until he starts potting 1.5-2 ppg week game , let him perculate. He has the ability to learn and adjust to the pro game.

I say let him OVER ripen as much as you can. We don’t want to “yo-yo” him in his development. Or give him some rinky dink 5 minute a night trial in the NHL. We have enough forward depth as it is. If he comes up I want him to stay up.

 

[herestohoping]

Savoie is going to get better and better down in the A. He needs to be there until mid Feb at min. Until he starts potting 1.5-2 ppg week game , let him perculate. He has the ability to learn and adjust to the pro game.

His last 9 games he has 14 points. 1,55 ppg since December 18. So over multiple weeks. By your own metrics he should be called up?

I’m not saying he should be called up right now, just thought perhaps you’re meaning 1.5-2ppg for 1-2months? but makes sense to get a good look at him before playoffs and perhaps a look before the trade deadline in case he surprises.

 

[FlameChampion]

Jackson and Bowman are just kind of baffling.

The way the offer sheets were treated and the rhetoric was that they wanted to be flexible and accrue cap space. It felt like they didn’t want to make any moves because they expected Kane back and would need the cap space to put him back on the roster.

But this whole knee injury feels so calculated that he won’t be back for the playoffs. And now kinda seems like we don’t get the cap space accrual.

And Bowman is super vague whenever he talks. I get that he needs to be careful with his words because the NHL would love to screw us but it feels like management is clueless and doesn’t know what they’re doing.

Guess we will see what happens.

 

[BarDownBobo]

I say let him OVER ripen as much as you can. We don’t want to “yo-yo” him in his development. Or give him some rinky dink 5 minute a night trial in the NHL. We have enough forward depth as it is. If he comes up I want him to stay up.

Letting Savoie get comfortable in one environment was the best thing the team could do for his development this year. He played for 4 teams across 3 leagues last year, plus the World Juniors. Was a whirlwind season that he probably never fully got set at any point.

 

[herestohoping]

Jackson and Bowman are just kind of baffling.

The way the offer sheets were treated and the rhetoric was that they wanted to be flexible and accrue cap space. It felt like they didn’t want to make any moves because they expected Kane back and would need the cap space to put him back on the roster.

But this whole knee injury feels so calculated that he won’t be back for the playoffs. And now kinda seems like we don’t get the cap space accrual.

And Bowman is super vague whenever he talks. I get that he needs to be careful with his words because the NHL would love to screw us but it feels like management is clueless and doesn’t know what they’re doing.

Guess we will see what happens.

Isn’t it an order of operations thing? Accrue cap space, make a move to be up against the cap, activate LTIR, make another move to fill LTIR space?

 

[FlameChampion]

Isn’t it an order of operations thing? Accrue cap space, make a move to be up against the cap, activate LTIR, make another move to fill LTIR space?

It could be but I wonder why guys like Ryan and JBrown are up if they want to accrue space.

 

[TheNumber4]

Letting Savoie get comfortable in one environment was the best thing the team could do for his development this year. He played for 4 teams across 3 leagues last year, plus the World Juniors. Was a whirlwind season that he probably never fully got set at any point.

That’s a very good point. Give him a stable environment and really let him get comfortable and hit his peak, whatever that peak is. Let’s atleast find out his absolute top end in the AHL before we start throwing more assignments his way.

 

[TheNumber4]

Isn’t it an order of operations thing? Accrue cap space, make a move to be up against the cap, activate LTIR, make another move to fill LTIR space?

That’s how Puckpedia previously reported it would work. Two transactions. One to use up accrued cap space. And a seperate one to use Kane’s LTIR space. But they have since recently walked back that statement, saying they mispoke, and are saying we can only use Kane’s LTIR in the event Kane is out until the playoffs.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Ryan is done and has been since last year's playoffs. Good guy, great teammate, but father time is undefeated.

Yeah. He can be around for the playoffs. Great guy. But I am also a great guy and no one wants me in the lineup.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

The Oilers hired that Dominik Zrim guy who’s the co-founder of CapFriendly, so I would hope they had some idea what they were doing.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The Kane injury situation and cap ramifications is fascinating given the nuance trying to interpret the CBA (as we see on this thread). Spector, who is terrible at detail, seems to suggest it will be an 'either or' situation, LTIR money or Accrual, not LTIR money AND Accrual).

“I don't know if it changes as much as people think it changes,” said Oilers GM Stan Bowman, addressing the cap situation under those two scenarios. “It's not that dramatically different.”

So, let’s begin by addressing something we can give you an answer to, shall we?
If Bowman uses the long-term injury reserve option, meaning Kane doesn’t play until playoffs, he’ll be able to acquire just over $5 million in AAV at the deadline. It’s pure AAV — not trimmed down by the fact three-quarters of the season has been played, and three-quarters of the salary has been paid.
If Kane comes back to play regular season games, depending on how many other injuries Edmonton gets between now and then, the Oilers will have room for around $3 million in AAV. But, a $4 million player only carries $1 in AAV on deadline day.

And remember, under either scenario, Bowman can get teams to retain salaries in trades. But that will cost draft picks.

Latest Evander Kane surgery offers Oilers more questions than answers

Wherever you look, the Evander Kane situation ends in a question mark. Mark Spector takes a look at the different paths the Oilers can take following the forward's latest injury news.

www.sportsnet.ca

Spector's very weak with details and technical aspects of the game and its business operations. Think he's referenced speaking with Hart Levine in the past and in this case directly with Bowman. Hope we get definitive clarification soon.

 

[Oilhawks]

Pretty sure some are more worried than they should be RE the Kane LTIR and cap situation.

They knew what they were doing.

I have and will criticize the org for failings, but with the cap and analytics hires, and Bowman at the head...again, they knew what they were doing here.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

It could be but I wonder why guys like Ryan and JBrown are up if they want to accrue space.

Probably because its a real long road trip? Unless you want to play games with less than 6 D potentially.

Pretty sure some are more worried than they should be RE the Kane LTIR and cap situation.

They knew what they were doing.

I have and will criticize the org for failings, but with the cap and analytics hires, and Bowman at the head...again, they knew what they were doing here.

They hired one of the guys from capfriendly.

I think we should see how it plays out before we all over react, thats not how some posters operate though.

 

[McShogun99]

Pretty sure some are more worried than they should be RE the Kane LTIR and cap situation.

They knew what they were doing.

I have and will criticize the org for failings, but with the cap and analytics hires, and Bowman at the head...again, they knew what they were doing here.

They should have just matched the offer sheets then trade both players this August for a haul. I have a bigger feeling they didn't match out of spite instead of over cap space, especially for Holloway.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Pretty sure some are more worried than they should be RE the Kane LTIR and cap situation.

They knew what they were doing.

I have and will criticize the org for failings, but with the cap and analytics hires, and Bowman at the head...again, they knew what they were doing here.

There were similar concerns in late November after Kapanen was claimed. "Sure he's had a few good games, but keeping him on the roster not is worth losing 4mil at the deadline."

Turns out it was Demott who eventually got waived, as the Oil decided to play some IR shenanigans by claiming Regula. But I think that shows the Oilers' MO over this period. Yes, accuring cap space is the main goal, but they're willing to sacrifice a week or two if they want to evaluate someone (or injuries force their hand).

Brown's up because they have a b**ch of a road trip where they needed a spare on standby and were willing to give one of their summer vet signings a 2nd chance after he shat the bed in preseason. (otherwise, it would have been Kemp/Carrick/Dineen up, someone making league min). It's the same with Ryan, if cap space maximization was the only concern, then he'd be waived and it'd be Cags or Pederson eating popcorn in the PB.

 

[Oilhawks]

They should have just matched the offer sheets then trade both players this August for a haul. I have a bigger feeling they didn't match out of spite instead of over cap space, especially for Holloway.

I still have concerns long term for Holloway’s wrist, but would have liked them to match and still grab Podz. I liked Broberg but his underlying stats continue to be mediocre in spite of his production and he’s slowed down a bit after a hot start.

I don’t think they can be traded for a year after being matched though, or something like that. Also think Broberg was worth more to the Blues at his cap hit than anyone else, so not sure what his return would have been afterwards

 

[McShogun99]

I still have concerns long term for Holloway’s wrist, but would have liked them to match and still grab Podz. I liked Broberg but his underlying stats continue to be mediocre in spite of his production and he’s slowed down a bit after a hot start.

I don’t think they can be traded for a year after being matched though, or something like that. Also think Broberg was worth more to the Blues at his cap hit than anyone else, so not sure what his return would have been afterwards

Every time I watch the Blues it seems like Broberg is getting caved but seems to have a lot of luck going his way. We would have had to wait until August to trade both but there would be a market for both of them that would have been a greater return then what we got. Broberg is currently playing around his contract and Holloway is easily exceeding his right now but let’s see how they do as teams tighten up and more is at stake later in the season.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The Kane injury situation and cap ramifications is fascinating given the nuance trying to interpret the CBA (as we see on this thread). Spector, who is terrible at detail, seems to suggest it will be an 'either or' situation, LTIR money or Accrual, not LTIR money AND Accrual).

“I don't know if it changes as much as people think it changes,” said Oilers GM Stan Bowman, addressing the cap situation under those two scenarios. “It's not that dramatically different.”

So, let’s begin by addressing something we can give you an answer to, shall we?
If Bowman uses the long-term injury reserve option, meaning Kane doesn’t play until playoffs, he’ll be able to acquire just over $5 million in AAV at the deadline. It’s pure AAV — not trimmed down by the fact three-quarters of the season has been played, and three-quarters of the salary has been paid.
If Kane comes back to play regular season games, depending on how many other injuries Edmonton gets between now and then, the Oilers will have room for around $3 million in AAV. But, a $4 million player only carries $1 in AAV on deadline day.

And remember, under either scenario, Bowman can get teams to retain salaries in trades. But that will cost draft picks.

Latest Evander Kane surgery offers Oilers more questions than answers

Wherever you look, the Evander Kane situation ends in a question mark. Mark Spector takes a look at the different paths the Oilers can take following the forward's latest injury news.

www.sportsnet.ca

Spector's very weak with details and technical aspects of the game and its business operations. Think he's referenced speaking with Hart Levine in the past and in this case directly with Bowman. Hope we get definitive clarification soon.

I’m guessing they would have had a pretty good understanding when they were formulating their cap strategy for the year. That said this seems like one of those ambiguous situations where the wording may be unclear or open to interpretation which is exactly how the league likes it so they can administer it as the choose.

 

[TheNumber4]

The timing of Kane's surgeries points to a plan that was always going to use Kane's LTIR Money.

IF that makes the cap accrual irrelevant, then you have to take that out of the equation on the decision not to match Holloway. Without accrual we very well could see a lineup of Holloway AND Podkolzin right now and still retaining all of the 'Summer of JJ' moves (JSkinner, Arvie, Henrique).

 

[mouser]

Isn’t it an order of operations thing? Accrue cap space, make a move to be up against the cap, activate LTIR, make another move to fill LTIR space?

Yes, that would be the optimal sequencing. However Kane is already on LTIR, so they can’t do that now.

 

[mouser]

If Kane comes back to play regular season games, depending on how many other injuries Edmonton gets between now and then, the Oilers will have room for around $3 million in AAV. But, a $4 million player only carries $1 in AAV on deadline day.

Important detail: that $3m trade deadline cap space estimate is already pro-rated.

 

[TheNumber4]

Important detail: that $3m trade deadline cap space estimate is already pro-rated.

So for the purposes of Arm-chair GMing. If you are looking for an addition at the TDL, you identify a $3M Cap Hit per year player and that fits the $3M trade deadline cap space?

 

[Rafters]

So for the purposes of Arm-chair GMing. If you are looking for an addition at the TDL, you identify a $3M Cap Hit per year player and that fits the $3M trade deadline cap space?

Or 6 mill with 50% retention

 

[mouser]

So for the purposes of Arm-chair GMing. If you are looking for an addition at the TDL, you identify a $3M Cap Hit per year player and that fits the $3M trade deadline cap space?

Yes, if the Oilers have access to that accrued space. As discussed earlier in the thread, Puckpedia is claiming the Oilers can’t use that accrued space if Kane is still on LTIR at the trade deadline. Could only use whatever’s remaining of Kane’s $5.1m in LTIR relief.

Should be added it’s not realistic for the Oilers to accumulate that much space by the trade deadline. They can’t run a 20 man roster for the next 6-8 weeks, there will be short term injuries and road trips.