Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[Oilslick941611]

With the CAD dropping and Trump threatening to nuke the economic status quo, the cap situation is murky imo. The projections may hold, or not.

Yeah, very true, but for next season at least the cap will be 97million according to Alan Walsh on his podcast today. Seemed pretty sure of it and said he had info from the league.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Murphy scores more points at 5on5 than Matheson.

Seems pretty good.

Personal preference then. I would take Matheson

 

[McDoused]

Yeah, very true, but for next season at least the cap will be 97million according to Alan Walsh on his podcast today. Seemed pretty sure of it and said he had info from the league.

That would be a pretty significant bump from the 92M that we were originally told at the start of the year.

An extra 5M next year would absolutely change what the Oilers should do at the deadline this year. It would actually allow us to go get a big name with term.

 

[foshizzle]

It's my understanding that he has not been on LTIR and that the space was just set. We put him on LTIR to set his limit and then took him off to accrue space

The accrual vs LTIR thing is not connected to a player. They are totally separate sources of cap space. If you are using LTIR then by definition you are not allowed to accrue cap at all. Accruing cap means that if you have 1 million in cap space, you can gain cap space over the season and have like 5 million by the deadline. If you use LTIR space then by definition you have zero cap space. That's the the total BS that Vegas was allowed to get away with this past summer. They were allowed to pay Lehner not to play AND not have him on LTIR and that allowed them to accrue space for the deadline. I'm actually shocked that was allowed

No. The way it works.

1) You put the player on LTIR before the season starts- you can then exceed the cap by that LTIR amount. The oilers did this last year. Essentially- say the cap is 88 mil and oilers have Kane at 5.1M. The Oilers have spent 87M and know with Kane they will be over at the beginning of the season so they put him on LTIR before rosters are due. Oilers total cap space is 87M+5.1M=92.1 m. They haven’t maximized LTIR.

No- say the Oilers are at 87M with Kane on the roster. Day one of the season, they put Kane on LTIR- now they can sign a player of equivalent value (5.1m) and they accrue the original 1M of space.

Last year- the Oilers managed to maximize LTIR before the season started but were dollar in dollar out at the deadline. This year- because they put him on LTIR after- they can backfill his spot while still accruing. That’s why timing is important. According to Oilers twitter, Kane was placed on LTIR Oct 8- a day after rosters were due. Puckpedia is saying it was before (which contradicts Oilers own twitter). This is the key distinction you’re missing

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Brandon Carlo would be nice. Boston winless in their last 6

 

[McFlash97]

None of those adds outside of Blackwood have been acquired by contenders in season and, granted, Blackwood has been great but the Oilers goaltending (if we're using smaller sample sizes) was #1 in the NHL from November 23rd until last night so it hasn't been an issue of late.

I'll give you the Fabbro one though, all Bowman had to do was throw a low pick Nashville's way and he could have had Fabbro. That was a missed opportunity, but we'll just have to wait to see what the plan is at the deadline before judging.

It definitely was against Pittsburgh. Skinner lives in his own head. Puts up a rare solid game... then immediately believes his own hype and looked like garbage the next. You can't have a goaltender with this type of ho hum mentality.

 

[Fourier]

It's my understanding that he has not been on LTIR and that the space was just set. We put him on LTIR to set his limit and then took him off to accrue space

The accrual vs LTIR thing is not connected to a player. They are totally separate sources of cap space. If you are using LTIR then by definition you are not allowed to accrue cap at all. Accruing cap means that if you have 1 million in cap space, you can gain cap space over the season and have like 5 million by the deadline. If you use LTIR space then by definition you have zero cap space. That's the the total BS that Vegas was allowed to get away with this past summer. They were allowed to pay Lehner not to play AND not have him on LTIR and that allowed them to accrue space for the deadline. I'm actually shocked that was allowed

Kane is on LTIR. They manipulated their roster to be as close to the cap as possible then put him on. The reason they did this was to maximize the space the they would get from LTIR and still allow them to accrue. When they put Kane on LTIR that set a new "ceiling" for the Oilers. If they dropped below that ceiling at any point they would start to accrue space. They have been doing so most of the year.

I think that the issue that Puckpedia is talking about has to do with adding a particular player. They are saying the Oilers cannot use accrued space and LTIR on the same player. The Oilers could use the accrued space to get one guy who is relatively cheap and then use the $5.1M for a second player or even several players with a combined cap hit of $5.1M or less. But they can't combine the two to get one player with say a $6M cap hit. (Added in Edit: For the record this was not my understanding of how things work. But it is not 100% clear to me now!)

And I do do agree that the Lehner decision was BS. Vegas obviously gets every break the League can give them. Contrast that with the League decision not to give the Oilers additional cap space from the Keith retirement or the completely irrational decision that Neal hit his goals total and it paints a picture of a two-tiered system.

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah, very true, but for next season at least the cap will be 97million according to Alan Walsh on his podcast today. Seemed pretty sure of it and said he had info from the league.

That would be a good cap number for us.

 

[TheNumber4]

Kane is on LTIR. They manipulated their roster to be as close to the cap as possible then put him on. The reason they did this was to maximize the space the they would get from LTIR and still allow them to accrue. When they put Kane on LTIR that set a new "ceiling" for the Oilers. If they dropped below that ceiling at any point they would start to accrue space. They have been doing so most of the year.

I think that the issue that Puckpedia is talking about has to do with adding a particular player. They are saying the Oilers cannot use accrued space and LTIR on the same player. The Oilers could use the accrued space to get one guy who is relatively cheap and then use the $5.1M for a second player or even several players with a combined cap hit of $5.1M or less. But they can't combine the two to get one player with say a $6M cap hit.

And I do do agree that the Lehner decision was BS. Vegas obviously gets every break the League can give them. Contrast that with the League decision not to give the Oilers additional cap space from the Keith retirement or the completely irrational decision that Neal hit his goals total and it paints a picture of a two-tiered system.

Puckpedia originally said you can use cap accrual on one transaction, then use Kane Ltir on 2nd. But then they said they mispoke, making it confusing now.

 

[Fourier]

Puckpedia originally said you can use cap accrual on one transaction, then use Kane Ltir on 2nd. But then they said they mispoke, making it confusing now.

I agree it is confusing. To be honest I am not 100% sure what they are trying to get at.

To be honest I did not think that there interpretation was correct, but it has been a while since I dipped into the most subtle nuisances of the CBA so I am not 100% sure how this plays out. But I suspect the Oilers do know.

 

[TheNumber4]

I agree it is confusing. To be honest I am not 100% sure what they are trying to get at.

I heard Bobs underling (forgot his name) then repeat it, quoting Puckpedia on radio today too . Saying “according to Puckpedia”. So it’s like even the Oilers media guys don’t know and are just going off of Puckpedia’s word. Yes, all very confusing.

 

[Fourier]

I heard Bobs underling (forgot his name) then repeat it, quoting Puckpedia on radio today too . Saying “according to Puckpedia”. So it’s like even the Oilers media guys don’t know and are just going off of Puckpedia’s word. Yes, all very confusing.

Lets just send out the Bat Signal. @mouser Perhaps you can weigh in on how accrued space meshes with LTIR with a deadline acquisition. Puckpedia has created some confusion.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

In a perfect world the team trades for a RD Ekholm like player. I have no idea who that player is and its likely they aren’t available.

Chatgpt indicates Brando Carlo

Carlo, Andersson, Pulock? Not much out there

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

It's interesting, but there's nothing that surprising (He focuses on a single thing for the most part), but I found this entry delightful and funny.

St. Louis Blues
Top Objective: Hope and pray
Scoop: GM Doug Armstrong has already done a lot of surgery this season. Coaching change. Addition of Cam Fowler. On top of the adding Dylan Holloway and Philip Broberg late in the summer. It hasn’t changed much? By points percentage, the Blues are 11th in the West. Could they sneak in? Sure. Would anyone believe they could do damage? Not really.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Kane is on LTIR. They manipulated their roster to be as close to the cap as possible then put him on. The reason they did this was to maximize the space the they would get from LTIR and still allow them to accrue. When they put Kane on LTIR that set a new "ceiling" for the Oilers. If they dropped below that ceiling at any point they would start to accrue space. They have been doing so most of the year.

I think that the issue that Puckpedia is talking about has to do with adding a particular player. They are saying the Oilers cannot use accrued space and LTIR on the same player. The Oilers could use the accrued space to get one guy who is relatively cheap and then use the $5.1M for a second player or even several players with a combined cap hit of $5.1M or less. But they can't combine the two to get one player with say a $6M cap hit. (Added in Edit: For the record this was not my understanding of how things work. But it is not 100% clear to me now!)

And I do do agree that the Lehner decision was BS. Vegas obviously gets every break the League can give them. Contrast that with the League decision not to give the Oilers additional cap space from the Keith retirement or the completely irrational decision that Neal hit his goals total and it paints a picture of a two-tiered system.

I believe they are suggesting that if Kane is out all year, they can only either:

A) use the cap space they’ve accrued through the year

B) dip into LTIR and use up ~ Kane’s cap hit (in this scenario we’d be money in-money out)

Previously it was suggested we could complete a transaction to eat up all our accrued cap space, then flip Kane to LTIR and use his 5.1M as well. But since Kane was put on LTIR at the beginning of the season and not after making a transaction, we can’t do both A and B anymore. We have to decide between the two.

I suspect we go with option A if we’re still not 100% sure when Kane is back, or option B if we know he isn’t returning before the playoffs.

 

[Fourier]

I believe they are suggesting that if Kane is out all year, they can only either:

A) use the cap space they’ve accrued through the year

B) dip into LTIR and use up ~ Kane’s cap hit (in this scenario we’d be money in-money out)

Previously it was suggested we could complete a transaction to eat up all our accrued cap space, then flip Kane to LTIR and use his 5.1M as well. But since Kane was put on LTIR at the beginning of the season and not after making a transaction, we can’t do both A and B anymore. We have to decide between the two.

I suspect we go with option A if we’re still not 100% sure when Kane is back, or option B if we know he isn’t returning before the playoffs.

I don't see how the bolded could be correct. If it was the implication would be that if they made a transaction using their accrued space that fit under the current ceiling, then they would lose the option to use LTIR. There is no way that is the case.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Lets get Mike Kesselring back

 

[Fourier]

No. The way it works.

1) You put the player on LTIR before the season starts- you can then exceed the cap by that LTIR amount. The oilers did this last year. Essentially- say the cap is 88 mil and oilers have Kane at 5.1M. The Oilers have spent 87M and know with Kane they will be over at the beginning of the season so they put him on LTIR before rosters are due. Oilers total cap space is 87M+5.1M=92.1 m. They haven’t maximized LTIR.

No- say the Oilers are at 87M with Kane on the roster. Day one of the season, they put Kane on LTIR- now they can sign a player of equivalent value (5.1m) and they accrue the original 1M of space.

Last year- the Oilers managed to maximize LTIR before the season started but were dollar in dollar out at the deadline. This year- because they put him on LTIR after- they can backfill his spot while still accruing. That’s why timing is important. According to Oilers twitter, Kane was placed on LTIR Oct 8- a day after rosters were due. Puckpedia is saying it was before (which contradicts Oilers own twitter). This is the key distinction you’re missing

The bolded is not actually the way it works. If the Oilers put a player on LTIR during the season the cap that they are at at that point becomes the new ceiling. So it they were at $87M when they put Kane on LTIR that would be their new ceiling. TO accrue space they would have to be under $87M.

At the beginning of the this season the Oilers manipulated their cap so that they were almost exactly at the ceiling. Then they put Kane on LTIR setting their new ceiling at just a hair below the $88.5M number. Then the sent down players so that they were under this new ceiling and hence were accruing space.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Lets get Mike Kesselring back

Seems like a deal at the draft thing. I don't think his game has come along enough to play 2RD on a deep playoff run.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I believe they are suggesting that if Kane is out all year, they can only either:

A) use the cap space they’ve accrued through the year

B) dip into LTIR and use up ~ Kane’s cap hit (in this scenario we’d be money in-money out)

Previously it was suggested we could complete a transaction to eat up all our accrued cap space, then flip Kane to LTIR and use his 5.1M as well. But since Kane was put on LTIR at the beginning of the season and not after making a transaction, we can’t do both A and B anymore. We have to decide between the two.

I suspect we go with option A if we’re still not 100% sure when Kane is back, or option B if we know he isn’t returning before the playoffs.

I’m not entirely sure how things work but I think Fourier kind of touched on it earlier that technically they wouldn’t be able to use both on one transaction.

As far as I understand the team can have Kane on IR with his cap hit counted under the 88M upper limit so they are accruing cap space but it means they don’t have enough space to run a full 23 man roster. But at times because of short term injuries or wanting to run a full roster they’ve put him on ltir to do so but during those times they stop accruing because they’re into their ltir pool (which they maximized at the start of the year by getting as close to the upper limit as possible before putting him on ltir). But when healthy and comfortable running a 21-22 man roster they can put Kane back on IR and be out of ltir and go back to accruing as much cap as possible.

In the lead up to the deadline, they can have Kane on IR, acquire a player with their accrued cap space and then after that when accruing doesn’t matter anymore they can send Kane back to ltir and use basically his entire cap hit (because they maximized that ltir pool with their move at the start of the year) of course as long as they are sure that Kane won’t be returning before the end of the regular season, which seems likely at this point.

Not exactly sure if this is entirely correct but it seems like that’s how they’ve been operating.

 

[McShogun99]

This is true. And every year they’ve tried, they’ve gotten worse at their attempt. They’ve also invested into a known Playoff Plug in Foegele to help them this year. Meh, every year there can be things you can point out about the Kings that can be scary, but every year our core talent wins out over theirs. And nothing about our core talents has changed.

Foegele might be looking good for LA now but he's horribly defensively 5x5 and folds under pressure. He essentialy cost us game 7 by taking a horrible penalty which led to the 1st goal once the Florida PP expired and cost us the 2nd goal by missing his man which led to the events of Reinhart scoring. He also was riding the bench during the playoffs at the end of close games. If anything he will cost LA a game or more in the series.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Except it is going that way. You’re just not grasping that the AAV of a contract decays a little bit every single day so by the time you get to the trade deadline and 2/3 of the days in the season have gone by, that contract and its AAV isn’t 5M at that point, it’s 2M which our accrued space covers.

Its not going that way.

If nothing changes we can add an annual cap hit of 1m.