Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[Mr Positive]

I’m certainly no expert either but as far as I understand it, a contracts total value is split by the number of days on the season and every day that passes it reduces the cap hit on that contract, so in essence a 5M cap hit on day one isn’t a 5M cap hit at trade deadline day, it’s more like a 2M cap hit maybe, because 2/3 of rhe daily cap up to that point has been paid out and the cap hit attributed to the current teams cap.

Accruing cap space works kind of in a similar fashion but the opposite, every day you are under the cap you get to squirrel away that daily cap hit amount to use later, think of it like taking the change in your pocket at the end of the day and putting it in a jar and it gets added to the amount that you were under the cap to begin with.

The team has been accruing cap intermittently and when they’ve had to be in ltir they stop accruing but the space they’ve been accruing so far doesn’t go away, it’s just not growing, but when they come out of ltir they go back to accruing on the amount that was paused while they were in ltir.

Basically at the deadline when they’re out of time to accrue so it doesn’t matter anymore, they’ll take the 2M or so they have, which technically buys them a 5M player because 2/3 of his cap hit has already been paid so he’s like a 1.8M player and then if they wanted to they could spend the equivalent of another 5M contract or so equivalent to the remainder of Kane’s remaining cap hit and at that time they’ll put him on ltir until the end of the season.

I think we mostly agree. But I recall we had 1 point something cap space at the start of the season, which people said would translate to about 5 million in cap space on deadline day.

Except, it didn't go that way. When we've accrued it was with more like 100ks worth and like you say, at times nothing because we dipped into LTIR with Arvidsson, so now our deadline accrued space is like 1-2 million. So our big hope is either a 1-1 hockey trade and/or Kane LTIR going right to the playoffs. I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure

 

[CanadasTeam99]

I hope we do make some solid productive moves.

Truth be told, the LA Kings scare me this year. That series that we will probably play will be a coin flip IMO.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I think we mostly agree. But I recall we had 1 point something cap space at the start of the season, which people said would translate to about 5 million in cap space. Except, it didn't go that way. When we've accrued it was with more like 100ks worth and like you say, at times nothing because we dipped into LTIR with Arvidsson, so now our deadline accrued space is like 1-2 million. So our big hope is either a 1-1 hockey trade and/or Kane LTIR going right to the playoffs.

Except it is going that way. You’re just not grasping that the AAV of a contract decays a little bit every single day so by the time you get to the trade deadline and 2/3 of the days in the season have gone by, that contract and its AAV isn’t 5M at that point, it’s 2M which our accrued space covers.

 

[Mr Positive]

Except it is going that way. You’re just not grasping that the AAV of a contract decays a little bit every single day so by the time you get to the trade deadline and 2/3 of the days in the season have gone by, that contract and its AAV isn’t 5M at that point, it’s 2M which our accrued space covers.

Isn't that depreciation of the contract we are buying just another way of representing the growth of the accrued space?

In other words, cap space does not accrue. That is just a useful way of looking at it. It's actually more like you say, where 1 million of space buys you a 5 million aav player at the deadline because the cost of that 5 million dollar player goes down.

I'm pretty sure I'm at least right that we could only aquire a 1 million+ player aav because we only have about 230k cap space today, and we had less than that earlier

 

[Jarvi]

I hope we do make some solid productive moves.

Truth be told, the LA Kings scare me this year. That series that we will probably play will be a coin flip IMO.

They will also have Doughty back most likely, and may even pull some LTIR shenanigans of their own with his contract and bring in another big name.

Between that, and our teams proclivity to become complacent against lower comps and teams they have bullied on, I can definitely see that being a hard series.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Isn't that depreciation of the contract we are buying just another way of representing the growth of the accrued space?

In other words, cap space does not accrue. That is just a useful way of looking at it. It's actually more like you say, where 1 million of space buys you a 5 million aav player at the deadline because the cost of that 5 million dollar player goes down.

I'm pretty sure I'm at least right that we could only aquire a 1 million+ player aav because we only have about 230k cap space today, and we had less than that earlier

So then why would they call it accrual instead of depreciation and how could they calculate it for each team without knowing the value of what they’d acquire at the deadline?

Think of it in two parts. The player we want to acquires contracts cap hit is decreasing every single day of the season to the point where it counts for roughly a 1/3 come deadline day.

On the team side for the Oilers, every day they are under the caps upper limit. They take the amount they are under and it gets divided by the number of days in the season and every day they add that amount to their cap space so literally the cap space you have is growing or… ACCRUING every day throughout the year, except for the periods when you’re in ltir and then it gets paused and stays at the level it was when you entered ltir until you are out of ltir.

I can’t explain it any better than that. If you’re still confused then maybe Fourier can explain it to you

 

[McTonyBrar]

Besides powerplay and skating.

What does Matheson do better?

He wont be getting the gravy powerplay minutes here like he does

And what does Murphy do?

Matheson can make a first pass, skate, rush the puck play left and right side, skate.

 

[soothsayer]

That contract is hideous and immovable. And Lou doesn't retain.

Literally people said the same thing about Ekholm. Pulock is a legitimate defenseman.

 

[McDoused]

The way that bowman was talking, it sounds like we have been accruing cap all year. It also sounds like when Kane comes back it will have a major impact on how much money we have available. He even said that we have been running a short bench to maximize our cap. I have a hard time believing puckpedia is correct. As long as we aren't using the LTIR, we should be accruing cap space.

 

[McDoused]

Literally people said the same thing about Ekholm. Pulock is a legitimate defenseman.

Hes also locked in for 5 more years. Not sure how we make room for him.

 

[alphahelix]

And what does Murphy do?

Matheson can make a first pass, skate, rush the puck play left and right side, skate.

What does Murphy do?

Defend the net and play physical, I guess?

And I mean, we’re going to spank the San Jose Sharks either way, what does it matter if Matheson is here to score an extra couple points against them? Can he shut down Nathan MacKinnon - Mikko Rantanen - Valeri Nichuskin - Cale Makar pushing for a goal late in the 3rd? Can he outplay the VGK top unit? Thats what we need now, isn’t it?

I dunno

I have to admit I kinda like Matheson but its based on limited viewings and I dont know how he does against elites

 

[soothsayer]

Hes also locked in for 5 more years. Not sure how we make room for him.

He's a 22 minute/night defenseman who scores 30+ points per year. With the cap going up and salaries following suit, I think they can make room. I would also add, Ekholm had 4 years left on his deal when the Oilers acquired him and was older than Pulock.

 

[alphahelix]

He's a 22 minute/night defenseman who scores 30+ points per year. With the cap going up and salaries following suit, I think they can make room. I would also add, Ekholm had 4 years left on his deal when the Oilers acquired him and was older than Pulock.

With the CAD dropping and Trump threatening to nuke the economic status quo, the cap situation is murky imo. The projections may hold, or not.

 

[Mr Positive]

So then why would they call it accrual instead of depreciation and how could they calculate it for each team without knowing the value of what they’d acquire at the deadline?

Think of it in two parts. The player we want to acquires contracts cap hit is decreasing every single day of the season to the point where it counts for roughly a 1/3 come deadline day.

On the team side for the Oilers, every day they are under the caps upper limit. They take the amount they are under and it gets divided by the number of days in the season and every day they add that amount to their cap space so literally the cap space you have is growing or… ACCRUING every day throughout the year, except for the periods when you’re in ltir and then it gets paused and stays at the level it was when you entered ltir until you are out of ltir.

I can’t explain it any better than that. If you’re still confused then maybe Fourier can explain it to you

There are many experts who understand the result of the rules but the exact formulation of how it comes is not clear in all its subtleties

You were saying that our accrual could net us a player who would have a 5 million AAV player on paper. I believe that is not the case. Whatever the calculated accrual is relates directly to the listed AAV of the player we buy. So, we have 280k in cap space and can grow it to 1+ million in space in accrual, and then we can only buy a player that expensive. The benefit we get is measured in our accrual and NOT in an additional calculation of the depreciation of the cap hit of the player we are getting.

I also use the term accrual and only stayed from that way of looking at it based on how you were describing it. So either you can look at it as our cap space growing or our trade target's cap hit shrinking, but not both

 

[McShogun99]

Meh, f*** Ratmouse. I don’t think I could cheer for him unless he scored the Cup winning goal in Oilers silks

“I hate you as much as you hate my team”

Can’t blame him. The Flames have been the Oilers bitch his entire career.

 

[McShogun99]

I hope we do make some solid productive moves.

Truth be told, the LA Kings scare me this year. That series that we will probably play will be a coin flip IMO.

LA management has been building a team for years that could hopefully beat the Oilers. They’re big, fast, tough and finally have reliable goaltending. It will be a tough series against them unless age catches up to Kopitar and Doighty come playoff time.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

There are many experts who understand the result of the rules but the exact formulation of how it comes is not clear in all its subtleties

You were saying that our accrual could net us a player who would have a 5 million AAV player on paper. I believe that is not the case. Whatever the calculated accrual is relates directly to the listed AAV of the player we buy. So, we have 280k in cap space and can grow it to 1+ million in space in accrual, and then we can only buy a player that expensive. The benefit we get is measured in our accrual and NOT in an additional calculation of the depreciation of the cap hit of the player we are getting.

I also use the term accrual and only stayed from that way of looking at it based on how you were describing it. So either you can look at it as our cap space growing or our trade target's cap hit shrinking, but not both

It is both. The teams accrued cap space is growing little by little daily, that’s why teams do things like paper transactions during extended breaks so they can milk every accrued dollar possible. At the same time the player contract AAV you are going to acquire is getting cheaper day by day.

I’m sorry that you don’t understand but what you are saying is wrong.

 

[soothsayer]

LA management has been building a team for years that could hopefully beat the Oilers. They’re big, fast, tough and finally have reliable goaltending. It will be a tough series against them unless age catches up to Kopitar and Doighty come playoff time.

People said the same thing last year, to be fair. When the Oilers get rolling by the end of the season, the difference between the teams will be clear again. The Kings are the same team they've been the last two years. Their chance was 2022 and they blew it.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

And what does Murphy do?

Matheson can make a first pass, skate, rush the puck play left and right side, skate.

Murphy scores more points at 5on5 than Matheson.

Seems pretty good.

 

[Mr Positive]

It is both. The teams accrued cap space is growing little by little daily, that’s why teams do things like paper transactions during extended breaks so they can milk every accrued dollar possible. At the same time the player contract AAV you are going to acquire is getting cheaper day by day.

I’m sorry that you don’t understand but what you are saying is wrong.

I am totally willing to take the L in this debate as I am no expert, but even now I search this up and I see no sites describing it like you are. They all talk about how you can accrue space so that your 2 million in space can let you spend nearly 4 million at the deadline, but they never add onto that that the cost to get a player also goes down. I don't see evidence for this double savings. I'd love to see evidence of this, and of course I'd love even more for the Oilers to benefit from this

 

[TheNumber4]

LA management has been building a team for years that could hopefully beat the Oilers. They’re big, fast, tough and finally have reliable goaltending. It will be a tough series against them unless age catches up to Kopitar and Doighty come playoff time.

This is true. And every year they’ve tried, they’ve gotten worse at their attempt. They’ve also invested into a known Playoff Plug in Foegele to help them this year. Meh, every year there can be things you can point out about the Kings that can be scary, but every year our core talent wins out over theirs. And nothing about our core talents has changed.

 

[North]

Can’t blame him. The Flames have been the Oilers bitch his entire career.

He started the trend by being Nurse’s bitch in the prospects game.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Literally people said the same thing about Ekholm. Pulock is a legitimate defenseman.

So you think we can afford
Ek(6m)-Bouch(8-10m)
Nurse(9.25m)-Pulock(6.4m)

I don't see it