Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[alphahelix]

That was the one player in the one role that Holloway would have taken on this roster. His cap is also strikingly similar to what Holloway is signed for. I'd argue that if Skinner had signed elsewhere and we'd left the spot open, there's a good chance that Holloway is still an Oiler today.

Holloway was an AHL tweener last year and wanted to stay home and compete for the cup. He would have likely been happy to take any guaranteed roster spot going into camp, not asking for top line duty. He didn’t get those types of assertions from STL and did not receive that type of ice time until he earned it. We had lots of spots available going into camp, with over-the-hill bums like Perry and Ryan begging to be knocked off. Holloway would have probably outperformed Arvidsson and Skinner and Kapanen and … basically every winger, too. So regardless of their presence going into camp, they wouldn’t have been a barrier to him.

 

[MessierII]

The buriable amount is somewhere around 1.1M, Perry makes 1.4 M - thats 300k in excess of a league min. Contract that could have been allocated towards Holloway - so excising Perry alone, even if we assume he was buried in the minors, would still add to our possibility of having matched on Holloway.

My point is that we have wasted money all over the place and the table scraps could have easily locked Holloway in, especially as he complained that we cut off communication with him and weren’t even willing to negotiate. Clearly was willing to come in for less than the offer sheet to stay.

Perry is 1.15 cap hit with 250 in potential bonuses. He’s already earned 150 so his cap hit is 1.3. The rest will come if we make the finals and he’s a regular. Both browns regardless of which one your talking about are 100% buriable. So the 150 grand stopped us from matching Holloway? Arviddson and skinner were the contracts that ate up our cap. Guys making less than 1.5 had nothing to do with it. Even if you sent them down you need to replace them on the roster with other players so your not even saving money there.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Holloway was an AHL tweener last year and wanted to stay home and compete for the cup. He would have likely been happy to take any guaranteed roster spot going into camp, not asking for top line duty. He didn’t get those types of assertions from STL and did not receive that type of ice time until he earned it. We had lots of spots available going into camp, with over-the-hill bums like Perry and Ryan begging to be knocked off. Holloway would have probably outperformed Arvidsson and Skinner and Kapanen and … basically every winger, too. So regardless of their presence going into camp, they wouldn’t have been a barrier to him.

Sorry, the roster was more or less for forwards on July 5th. We knew who was going to be up front to start the year and most had Holloway as out 13th forward or on the 4th line and we traded for Podz he took Holloways spot on the depth chart

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The buriable amount is somewhere around 1.1M, Perry makes 1.4 M - thats 300k in excess of a league min. Contract that could have been allocated towards Holloway - so excising Perry alone, even if we assume he was buried in the minors, would still add to our possibility of having matched on Holloway.

My point is that we have wasted money all over the place and the table scraps could have easily locked Holloway in, especially as he complained that we cut off communication with him and weren’t even willing to negotiate. Clearly was willing to come in for less than the offer sheet to stay.

The cap amount a team can bury is 1.15M, Perry’s cap hit is 1.15M and Browns is 1M.

The point your missing is that the Oilers had the ability to match the offer sheets regardless of who they had signed at that point. It wasn’t that they couldn’t afford it but rather they didn’t want to over pay for a couple of players who didn’t want to be on the team.

 

[TheNumber4]

because we easily could have afforded both podkolzin and holloway, and holloway is better than all of them. The scraps we spent on extras like perry and brown cost us a core piece.

Perry and Brown have been great value at their contracts though.

If we are looking for $2M in Cap to blame the loss on Holloway on. Skinner at $3M would be the prime candidate at this point. Or maybe the difference between Henrique and Mcleod, that’s a $1M right there plus we could have done a $1M less in Cap accrual. But then we don’t get Savoie… so probably best to blame the Skinner deal.

 

[Fourier]

He certainly has a heavy shot.

Kaliyev is a guy I was hoping would fall to the OIlers with their second. 31 goals at age 16 and 51 goals for a 17 year old is nothing to sneeze at. He is also a big kid. He dropped because he was seen as a one trick pony and did not interview well. Moreover there were rumors about his age. But goal scoring is perhaps the rarest of skills.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Vancouver bloggers and fans are the best. No wonder they are the most disliked fan base.

 

[TheNumber4]

Vancouver bloggers and fans are the best. No wonder they are the most disliked fan base.

Lol. I wouldn’t do Weresnki straight up for that overpaid wuss Pettersson, let alone throw in a young, potential star in Fantilli.

 

[McDNicks17]

Kaliyev is a guy I was hoping would fall to the OIlers with their second. 31 goals at age 16 and 51 goals for a 17 year old is nothing to sneeze at. He is also a big kid. He dropped because he was seen as a one trick pony and did not interview well. Moreover there were rumors about his age. But goal scoring is perhaps the rarest of skills.

Me too. The guy was insane in junior. He scored from anywhere and it didn't matter if he was off-balance, on the wrong foot, falling down, etc....he was going to rifle a shot through the goalie.

I always seem to have a prospect crush on those one-shot scorer types in the OHL. Tyson Foerster was another one. Oddly enough, he turned into a good two-way guy like Kaliyev did too.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Me too. The guy was insane in junior. He scored from anywhere and it didn't matter if he was off-balance, on the wrong foot, falling down, etc....he was going to rifle a shot through the goalie.

I always seem to have a prospect crush on those one-shot scorer types in the OHL. Tyson Foerster was another one. Oddly enough, he turned into a good two-way guy like Kaliyev did too.

Sort of sounds like Nail Yakupov

 

[Mr Kot]

Vancouver bloggers and fans are the best. No wonder they are the most disliked fan base.

 

[McShogun99]

Sorry, the roster was more or less for forwards on July 5th. We knew who was going to be up front to start the year and most had Holloway as out 13th forward or on the 4th line and we traded for Podz he took Holloways spot on the depth chart

Most mock lineups had him with Ryan and Perry on July 5. He wasn’t taking RNH or Skinners spot in the top 6 or breaking up the Rico line. What fools we were back then.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Most mock lineups had him with Ryan and Perry on July 5. He wasn’t taking RNH or Skinners spot in the top 6 or breaking up the Rico line. What fools we were back then.

Isnt the Ryan/Perry combo the 4th line?

 

[Oilhawks]

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Ironic coming from a guy belonging to such a fairweather fanbase. If the Cansucks had as little playoff success as the Blue Jackets, the team might be relocated already

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Is Rodrigue still waiver exempt?

He is not, but you could bring him up for a couple starts, then send him back without needing waivers

 

[alphahelix]

The cap amount a team can bury is 1.15M, Perry’s cap hit is 1.15M and Browns is 1M.

The point your missing is that the Oilers had the ability to match the offer sheets regardless of who they had signed at that point. It wasn’t that they couldn’t afford it but rather they didn’t want to over pay for a couple of players who didn’t want to be on the team.

By
NHL.com
@NHLdotcom
July 01, 2024
Corey Perry signed a one-year, $1.4 million contract to remain with the Edmonton Oilers on Monday.


Regardless, the point you’re missing is that the Oilers didn’t negotiate with Holloway, they gave him a take it or leave it 1.1M offer as if he were some sort of useless bum like Josh Brown, and then they cut off contact.

Thats obtuse, egotistical management in my books. It’s one of many dumb f*** things that led to us getting worse for no good reason.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

That was the one player in the one role that Holloway would have taken on this roster. His cap is also strikingly similar to what Holloway is signed for. I'd argue that if Skinner had signed elsewhere and we'd left the spot open, there's a good chance that Holloway is still an Oiler today.

The one comment I have to this, if they miss out on Skinner and keep Holloway, then they likely pass on trading for Podkolzin too. And although his direct offensive isn't as noticeable, I don't think it's a coincidence Drai looks amazing this season playing with a guy with superior puck distribution skills.

This is the one skill I really like about Podz, he's a wierd mix of McLeod and Holloway/Foegele, where he has zero issues getting his nose dirty (like Holloway or Foegele), but he does such a good job of finding and getting the puck to his linemate who has the most time and space to make a play (more of a McLeod trait imo).

He's not the guy that tries to chase or force an immediate checkmate, but rather sets the board for it to happen in the following turns.


On that note, it's the same with Broberg: If they get him signed to somewhere in the 1 to 1.5mil range, do they still move Ceci for Emberson? A guy, whose mobility fits this defence so much better.

 

[alphahelix]

Perry is 1.15 cap hit with 250 in potential bonuses. He’s already earned 150 so his cap hit is 1.3. The rest will come if we make the finals and he’s a regular. Both browns regardless of which one your talking about are 100% buriable. So the 150 grand stopped us from matching Holloway? Arviddson and skinner were the contracts that ate up our cap. Guys making less than 1.5 had nothing to do with it. Even if you sent them down you need to replace them on the roster with other players so your not even saving money there.

Not only is the majority of Connor Brown’s cap hit for this year not buriable, it’s not tradeable or fungible in any way. The league min contract he has is largely irrelevant, but his combined total is roughly equivalent to 1 STL Blues #1 Defenceman.

We have spent cap on all of these players this year, including Josh Brown. If he was Phil Kemp, we would have saved money that could have been allocated elsewhere. He’s useless, it’s wasted money, and it all adds up.

We have a f*** load of wasted money, even if you don’t count any of the above listed players. We’re a substantial disgrace of cumulative mismanagement of funds.

Its a credit to our top players that we remain competitive.

 

[alphahelix]

On that note, it's the same with Broberg: If they get him signed to somewhere in the 1 to 1.5mil range, do they still move Ceci for Emberson? A guy, whose mobility fits this defence so much better.

No, if these wildly hypothetical conditions were fulfilled its a virtual certainty that we would be rolling with a substantial upgrade at 2RD, say Chris Tanev, and looking at our first Presidents Trophy since 1987.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

By
NHL.com
@NHLdotcom
July 01, 2024
Corey Perry signed a one-year, $1.4 million contract to remain with the Edmonton Oilers on Monday.


Regardless, the point you’re missing is that the Oilers didn’t negotiate with Holloway, they gave him a take it or leave it 1.1M offer as if he were some sort of useless bum like Josh Brown, and then they cut off contact.

Thats obtuse, egotistical management in my books. It’s one of many dumb f*** things that led to us getting worse for no good reason.

It’s ok, just say you don’t understand how contract value vs cap hit works lol.

Nothing obtuse or egotistical about it. The team didn’t want people who put themselves above the team or who didn’t want to play on the team. The second they signed an offer sheet they’re saying they don’t want to play for the Oilers. The team showed they could create the cap space to match but chose not to because it’s not the type of teammate you want on a contending team. When we played them it was pretty clear what our leaders thought of those two, Mcdavid and Draisaitl spent the game going after Broberg, embarrassing him and McDavid collared Holloway and speed bagged him. They didn’t want those guys here after they signed offer sheets.

Anyway they have nothing to do with Oilers rumours or trade proposals, if you wanna keep whining about them, take it to the dedicated crying thread.

 

[TheNumber4]

It’s ok, just say you don’t understand how contract value vs cap hit works lol.

Nothing obtuse or egotistical about it. The team didn’t want people who put themselves above the team or who didn’t want to play on the team. The second they signed an offer sheet they’re saying they don’t want to play for the Oilers. The team showed they could create the cap space to match but chose not to because it’s not the type of teammate you want on a contending team. When we played them it was pretty clear what our leaders thought of those two, Mcdavid and Draisaitl spent the game going after Broberg, embarrassing him and McDavid collared Holloway and speed bagged him. They didn’t want those guys here after they signed offer sheets.

Anyway they have nothing to do with Oilers rumours or trade proposals, if you wanna keep whining about them, take it to the dedicated crying thread.

That’s an interesting read of the Blues-Oil game, could be something to that.

Heck, the Red Wings won’t retire Fedorovs number cause he signed an offer sheet. There’s definitely bad blood that gets created when an offersheet is signed, even though it’s not always justifiable. Like you can’t blame players for taking more money, but the result remains that they at some level rejected our team.

 

[alphahelix]

Guys don’t want a player who puts their wallet ahead the groups cup chances.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t even know how contract value vs AAV works, a pretty simple concept. It’s ok little casual.

You apparently don’t understand that bonuses matter in cap calculations in a variety of different circumstances which functionally decreases roster flexibility for an LTIR team coming out of camp, and for the team next year, and for the team this year. Even if a bonus later goes unearned, it can still impact roster flexibility at the beginning of the season. The Oilers are actually paying Corey Perry more than 1.4 million this season because they were apparently as dumb as you last season when mismanaging their bonuses, thinking it for some reason didn’t matter.

The Oilers actually have the most bonus overages against their cap this year of any team in the NHL, and those bonuses were easily enough to pay Holloway’s entire salary. So saying bonuses don’t matter, is essentially the dumbest f***ing thing anyone has ever said on this board. We’re all dumber for having listened to it.

As far as the business of hockey goes, there is certainly NOT a single player in the Oilers locker room who wouldn’t have wanted more than 1M dollars this year, especially if they were a 1st round pick who led the team in hits in the playoffs,but I digress.

No Oilers player would have done any differently than Holloway, and so No Oilers player would treat him any differently. They are not redneck hicks who think that a player agent attempting to negotiate a better contract is some sort of excommunicable offence. Literally you will never find a quote from any player suggesting otherwise.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

What's going on with Dobson this year? On pace for 40 points after scoring 70 last year and 50 the prior two.

Wondering if a Dobson for Pettersson deal makes sense.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

He is not, but you could bring him up for a couple starts, then send him back without needing waivers

How would that work ?

 

[SupremeTeam16]

That’s an interesting read of the Blues-Oil game, could be something to that.

Heck, the Red Wings won’t retire Fedorovs number cause he signed an offer sheet. There’s definitely bad blood that gets created when an offersheet is signed, even though it’s not always justifiable. Like you can’t blame players for taking more money, but the result remains that they at some level rejected our team.

Two things can be true at once, it’s possible to respect someone and dislike them as well. I’ll always respect someone for getting the most money they can, but I can also dislike them for putting a dent in my chances at a championship and that would make most not want to have them around.

The Oilers weren’t drastically low balling Holloway, their reported offer of 1.1M is right in line with what similar rfa’s with similar production were getting. This is a case of a non competitive team, with weak depth willing to over pay a player by roughly 100% because A) they were using him to amp up pressure on the Oilers to let go of the real prize in Broberg, and B) they were in a position to mitigate that overpay risk because of their weak depth which would mean opportunities up roster for Holloway and on the PP.

Either way the Oilers did a good job of mitigating the situation, coming out with some suitable fillers in Pod and Emberson, creating valuable cap space and getting asset currency for upgrading in season. Team is humming along, they’re deep, they’ve got the ability to upgrade and they’ve got another young prospect in Savoie who’s playing well and they could inject if desired.