Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[oilers4life5]

When Stolarz is back, Toronto is going to have to send Matt Murray down again no?

I say we claim him, I'd rather have him than Colin Delia as our "AHL goalie with NHL experience" in case we ever have an injury and it's zero cost.

At least this guy has played NHL playoff games and the biggest ones at that. If Skinner were to ever get hurt, I'd rather have a tandem of like Pickard/Murray than Pickard/Rodrigue with 0 NHL games experience or Pickard/Delia.

Obviously I'm not saying he's *the* answer but if it's a no-cost thing between him and Delia, I'd rather have him.

Delia is .900 in the AHL, Murray is .931 they're both the same age.

If you claim him he has to stay in the NHL.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

And I get Murray was awful tonight against the Caps too, but at least that's against NHL comp, not AHL.

I would claim him, don't think the Leafs wouldn't even protest much. Murray is probably cooked, but he's still a better AHL goalie than Delia, and there may be a 5-10% chance that he's actually not cooked. Why not take it, Delia is a never was, never will be.

Also man oh man, should we have signed Logan Thompson.

They have Mahoney on the Capitals. Very good player evaluator.
But yes It would have been wise to get a guy with a history of .915 a chance especially to rub it into Vegas' face.

 

[Soundwave]

If you claim him he has to stay in the NHL.

For what period of time?

They have Mahoney on the Capitals. Very good player evaluator.
But yes It would have been wise to get a guy with a history of .915 a chance especially to rub it into Vegas' face.

I mean we probably could have had any one of Askarov, Thompson, or Blackwood in the off-season if we really wanted it, but this team is always asleep at the wheel and doesn't care. They signed Pickard and called it a day.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

For what period of time?



I mean we probably could have had any one of Askarov, Thompson, or Blackwood in the off-season if we really wanted it, but this team is always asleep at the wheel and doesn't care. They signed Pickard and called it a day.

Vegas got 2 thirds from the Capitals. If they would trade with us i guess the price would have been more though. The price to acquire Askarov was substantial though and who knows if were in the mix probably even higher.
My point being we don;t have that quality of talent evaluation in our management right now nor the appetite to fix our goaltending. For example its quite obvious that we should be figuring out the Bakersfield goaltending (calling up Rodrigue for 4-5 games to see what we have if anything there and replacing Delia now) but you know that might take a bit of work by Oilers management.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Our D core has played well all year too, longer than Skinner has been decent, so should we expect no move there either?

I don't get why Skinner's salary should matter. Yes, he is a bargain. The cap goes away in the playoffs. Besides, cap management is a totally different issue than making sure the team has the right skill in the right positions.

Our D core is not good enough and no it hasn’t played well all year. Nurse and Kulak have been great standouts with Emberson being decent. Bouchard and Ekholm have not been up to their usual level yet

 

[oilers4life5]

For what period of time?



I mean we probably could have had any one of Askarov, Thompson, or Blackwood in the off-season if we really wanted it, but this team is always asleep at the wheel and doesn't care. They signed Pickard and called it a day.

He has to stay up the whole time. If you want him to play in the AHL he has to go through waivers again and could be claimed.

 

[Soundwave]

He has to stay up the whole time. If you want him to play in the AHL he has to go through waivers again and could be claimed.

So let him go through waivers again.

 

[Fourier]

And I get Murray was awful tonight against the Caps too, but at least that's against NHL comp, not AHL.

I would claim him, don't think the Leafs wouldn't even protest much. Murray is probably cooked, but he's still a better AHL goalie than Delia, and there may be a 5-10% chance that he's actually not cooked. Why not take it, Delia is a never was, never will be.

Also man oh man, should we have signed Logan Thompson.

If you want him in the AHL it probably has to be by trade once Stolarz comes back. If they waive him and you claim him you have to run with three goalies on the roster since the Leafs would likely claim whom ever the Oilers waive.

I can't see the Oilers making a move like this. Skinner plays too many games to run three guys and Pickard has actually been one of the better backups in the league this year. His QS% is .727 which is excellent. Of course he plays against lower end teams but what you want is your back-up not costing you games. For me the issue with goaltending is Skinner's inconsistency full stop. Unfortunately, I think if you want to actually fix this it is probably go big or go home. Spend the assets to get a guy like Saros out of Nashville or maybe Sorokin.

Nashville is a complete train wreck. They went for it this year signing Stamkos and Marchessault but it blew up on them. Now what they are left with is a bunch of expensive aging vets. Trotz seems like he realizes this and is quietly dismantling the team for a tank. Either that or he is totally out to lunch. Cap space and picks/prospects will allow him to speed up the rebuild.

Maybe Tortz thinks they need to go for a guy like McKenna to turn things around. His new deal is for 7 years and it is very front loaded. The last thing Nashville needs is to be paying big money for Saros to screw up the tank. Saros has no trade protection right now which actually hurts the Oilers since it probably ups the price but something like.

S. Skinner, J.Skinner ++

for

Saros

I have no idea what the ++ might be but I suspect it would be a decent investment. Long term it may not even be bad on the cap. This version of Skinner probably will be looking at $6M+ when his deal is up if the Oilers continue to go deep in the playoffs the next couple of years.

Now I have no idea how realistic Saros is, and to be honest I don't see the Oilers doing something like this unless Skinner has a very bad stretch or if he lays an egg in the playoffs.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I’d really like to see Bowman/Jackson do something about this forward core.

I STRONGLY believe we need another good forward. I very much doubt it happens.

The question is will Evander Kane contribute in a positive way or be another "Over the Hill" player for us.

 

[Mr Positive]

Our D core is not good enough and no it hasn’t played well all year. Nurse and Kulak have been great standouts with Emberson being decent. Bouchard and Ekholm have not been up to their usual level yet

It's my understanding that the fancy stats have our overall D performance as top tier. Now, that includes things other than defensemen, such as our system and of course forwards doing good D plays.

We can still look at it and see spots that can be better, and might not hold up in the playoffs, even if it has worked good enough to this point. The biggest spot is 2nd pair RD, letting Kulak anchor the 3rd pair. The next need is for a goalie to challenge Skinner

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Our D core is not good enough and no it hasn’t played well all year. Nurse and Kulak have been great standouts with Emberson being decent. Bouchard and Ekholm have not been up to their usual level yet

Our D isn't perfect (need a better RHD to play top 4 and push Stecher out of lineup) and Ekholm/Bouchard aren't playing as well as they were last year, but we're still one of the best defensive teams in the league overall. It's just that Skinner decides to pull Jack Campbell cosplays for half the games.

 

[FlameChampion]

I STRONGLY believe we need another good forward. I very much doubt it happens.

The question is will Evander Kane contribute in a positive way or be another "Over the Hill" player for us.

I think the Team needs the type of player Kane can be. I think he helps them get engaged more in games.

I am just not sure at this point what kind of player we will be getting. We don’t know when he will actually play. And we don’t know at what level he will be once hes back and how long it will take before hes upto speed. I just see so many posters thinking he will be playing his game right away and I’m not sure if that’s realistic.

 

[soothsayer]

If you want him in the AHL it probably has to be by trade once Stolarz comes back. If they waive him and you claim him you have to run with three goalies on the roster since the Leafs would likely claim whom ever the Oilers waive.

I can't see the Oilers making a move like this. Skinner plays too many games to run three guys and Pickard has actually been one of the better backups in the league this year. His QS% is .727 which is excellent. Of course he plays against lower end teams but what you want is your back-up not costing you games. For me the issue with goaltending is Skinner's inconsistency full stop. Unfortunately, I think if you want to actually fix this it is probably go big or go home. Spend the assets to get a guy like Saros out of Nashville or maybe Sorokin.

Nashville is a complete train wreck. They went for it this year signing Stamkos and Marchessault but it blew up on them. Now what they are left with is a bunch of expensive aging vets. Trotz seems like he realizes this and is quietly dismantling the team for a tank. Either that or he is totally out to lunch. Cap space and picks/prospects will allow him to speed up the rebuild.

Maybe Tortz thinks they need to go for a guy like McKenna to turn things around. His new deal is for 7 years and it is very front loaded. The last thing Nashville needs is to be paying big money for Saros to screw up the tank. Saros has no trade protection right now which actually hurts the Oilers since it probably ups the price but something like.

S. Skinner, J.Skinner ++

for

Saros

I have no idea what the ++ might be but I suspect it would be a decent investment. Long term it may not even be bad on the cap. This version of Skinner probably will be looking at $6M+ when his deal is up if the Oilers continue to go deep in the playoffs the next couple of years.

Now I have no idea how realistic Saros is, and to be honest I don't see the Oilers doing something like this unless Skinner has a very bad stretch or if he lays an egg in the playoffs.

Saros was on the table and available before his extension. If the Oilers were going to trade for him, it would have been then. Saros is one of my favorite goalies and he would make the Oilers the top cup contender instantly, but the Oilers have clearly saddled their horse to Skinner, unfortunately.

 

[belair]

It's my understanding that the fancy stats have our overall D performance as top tier. Now, that includes things other than defensemen, such as our system and of course forwards doing good D plays.

We can still look at it and see spots that can be better, and might not hold up in the playoffs, even if it has worked good enough to this point. The biggest spot is 2nd pair RD, letting Kulak anchor the 3rd pair. The next need is for a goalie to challenge Skinner

As much as people want that to be true, the clearer need is a reliable 4C. Otherwise the Oilers are running either Derek Ryan or a winger in that role.

Upgrading on Pickard would be nice and not impossible, but the more he continues to play well, the less likely it becomes. Also of note the 24 year old prospect in Bakersfield currently sporting a 0.921 in 17 starts.

 

[Mr Positive]

As much as people want that to be true, the clearer need is a reliable 4C. Otherwise the Oilers are running either Derek Ryan or a winger in that role.

Upgrading on Pickard would be nice and not impossible, but the more he continues to play well, the less likely it becomes. Also of note the 24 year old prospect in Bakersfield currently sporting a 0.921 in 17 starts.

At least 4c should cost very little, so sure. I agree on Ryan. He's OK in some games but for playoffs we can't have an obvious weak spot.

I like Pickard, but the team doesn't view him as anything other than a back up. It would be nice to have a back up where if Skinner is having a bad game, we aren't so slow to pull him, and when Skinner in one of his regular slumps, let the other goalie be the starter.

It's almost like the Campbell debacle has made them not want to invest anything in goaltending anymore. Just pray that the "goaltending is voodoo" mantra is true

 

[Soundwave]

At what point does this team just accept Stuart Skinner is basically a .890-.900 tier goalie? Maybe ever so slightly above .900 if the team infront of him plays out of its ass good?

He's been that for the most of two regular seasons now here (this year which is reaching it's half way point and the last two playoffs where he's played plenty).

I don't think he will break out much past what he is now either because he just doesn't have the higher tier athleticism to take his game to another level. He'll be good for stretches, followed by bad stretches and it all evens out somewhere around .890-.900 it feels like.

Having a .890-.900 tier starter just makes winning a Cup much harder. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's doing the team a disservice by making their lives harder than it needs to be and it's raising the probability that you are going to blow years where you could have won it all into years where you don't.

Is it really worth it? This team isn't even spending the money they "save" on goaltending on anything good. They're paying 3 mill to J. Skinner and 3 mill to Henrique while shooting themselves in the foot in net.

 

[alphahelix]

Saros was on the table and available before his extension. If the Oilers were going to trade for him, it would have been then. Saros is one of my favorite goalies and he would make the Oilers the top cup contender instantly, but the Oilers have clearly saddled their horse to Skinner, unfortunately.

F SAROS shoulda sprung for Askarov. I can’t believe no one was willing to give him NHL starts until recently

 

[Mr Positive]

At what point does this team just accept Stuart Skinner is basically a .890-.900 tier goalie? Maybe .904-ish if the team infront of him plays out of its ass good?

He's been that for the most of two regular seasons now here (this year which is reaching it's half way point and the last two playoffs where he's played plenty).

Having a .890-.900 tier starter just makes winning a Cup much harder. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's doing the team a disservice by making their lives harder than it needs to be and it's raising the probability that you are going to blow years where you could have won it all into years where you don't.

Let me just ask the question -- is it worth it?

It is true that we can win the cup with him. Kuemper got a cup. Leighton got to the finals too.

Maybe it is a good strategy to save cash and spend it elsewhere. I don't see why we couldn't keep the spending down by taking some educated gambles on cheap goalies who might reliably put up .915 if they moved to a good team. There are bad teams out there with goalies with better numbers than our guys. A .900 goalie on a bad team would be a .915 goalie here

Maybe it means that when it's time to pay that goalie, we just lose them. Or maybe if we find our next Roloson we make the room.

We are rapidly approaching the day where we will have to re-sign Skinner and his agent will point to his good runs, his cup appearance (maybe a cup win) and he will demand the kind of money that ends all other options.

I can already tell what will happen. Management will just give him his 6-7 million. Maybe he gets 5.5, but with cap growth idk

This is the time to try on different goalies like Colorado has done. If our management were in charge of the Avs they would have just rode out Kuemper or Francouz or Georgiev and blamed their failings on the team

 

[CanadasTeam99]

At what point does this team just accept Stuart Skinner is basically a .890-.900 tier goalie? Maybe ever so slightly above .900 if the team infront of him plays out of its ass good?

He's been that for the most of two regular seasons now here (this year which is reaching it's half way point and the last two playoffs where he's played plenty).

I don't think he will break out much past what he is now either because he just doesn't have the higher tier athleticism to take his game to another level. He'll be good for stretches, followed by bad stretches and it all evens out somewhere around .890-.900 it feels like.

Having a .890-.900 tier starter just makes winning a Cup much harder. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's doing the team a disservice by making their lives harder than it needs to be and it's raising the probability that you are going to blow years where you could have won it all into years where you don't.

Is it really worth it? This team isn't even spending the money they "save" on goaltending on anything good. They're paying 3 mill to J. Skinner and 3 mill to Henrique while shooting themselves in the foot in net.

This is what he is. Barely average. Will he get to an above average and break the 900 barrier?

Facts are facts. Edmonton has below average goaltending and it hurts a few guys tummys here when they read this.

Pathetic for a upper contending team. On top of that, they refuse to give the guy with better stats more starts

Just a brain rot/braindead org when it comes to goalies

 

[belair]

At what point does this team just accept Stuart Skinner is basically a .890-.900 tier goalie? Maybe ever so slightly above .900 if the team infront of him plays out of its ass good?

He's been that for the most of two regular seasons now here (this year which is reaching it's half way point and the last two playoffs where he's played plenty).

I don't think he will break out much past what he is now either because he just doesn't have the higher tier athleticism to take his game to another level. He'll be good for stretches, followed by bad stretches and it all evens out somewhere around .890-.900 it feels like.

Having a .890-.900 tier starter just makes winning a Cup much harder. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's doing the team a disservice by making their lives harder than it needs to be and it's raising the probability that you are going to blow years where you could have won it all into years where you don't.

Is it really worth it? This team isn't even spending the money they "save" on goaltending on anything good. They're paying 3 mill to J. Skinner and 3 mill to Henrique while shooting themselves in the foot in net.

The hard fact is that 0.900 is essentially what your average goalie is these days. You can pay a premium like Colorado did to swap starters, but there's no guarantee that you're going to be statistically better in the long run if that's your only attempt at improving the team.

Your 0.915+ starters that play 50+ games are few and far between, rarely traded and are due larger raises. The Oilers are wise to pinch pennies in this position, knowing they've got a young, internally developed goaltender who's shown capable of handling a starter's workload.

Moving forward that 'wasted' salary is going to be needed to keep the players who are performing well who'll be due larger raises. And it'll be needed to continue filling those depth roles via trade and UFA.

 

[iCanada]

The next need is for a goalie to replace Skinner

Fixed that typo for you.

 

[Fourier]

It is true that we can win the cup with him. Kuemper got a cup. Leighton got to the finals too.

Maybe it is a good strategy to save cash and spend it elsewhere. I don't see why we couldn't keep the spending down by taking some educated gambles on cheap goalies who might reliably put up .915 if they moved to a good team. There are bad teams out there with goalies with better numbers than our guys. A .900 goalie on a bad team would be a .915 goalie here

Maybe it means that when it's time to pay that goalie, we just lose them. Or maybe if we find our next Roloson we make the room.

We are rapidly approaching the day where we will have to re-sign Skinner and his agent will point to his good runs, his cup appearance (maybe a cup win) and he will demand the kind of money that ends all other options.

I can already tell what will happen. Management will just give him his 6-7 million. Maybe he gets 5.5, but with cap growth idk

This is the time to try on different goalies like Colorado has done. If our management were in charge of the Avs they would have just rode out Kuemper or Francouz or Georgiev and blamed their failings on the team

Who are these guys. I'd venture that there is not a single cheap goalie in the league that could reliably put up a .915 on any team. It just does not work the way you think, that moving from a bad team to a good one adds .015 points. If it did every good team would have cheap goalies with .915+ sv%'s.

 

[soothsayer]

At what point does this team just accept Stuart Skinner is basically a .890-.900 tier goalie? Maybe ever so slightly above .900 if the team infront of him plays out of its ass good?

He's been that for the most of two regular seasons now here (this year which is reaching it's half way point and the last two playoffs where he's played plenty).

I don't think he will break out much past what he is now either because he just doesn't have the higher tier athleticism to take his game to another level. He'll be good for stretches, followed by bad stretches and it all evens out somewhere around .890-.900 it feels like.

Having a .890-.900 tier starter just makes winning a Cup much harder. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's doing the team a disservice by making their lives harder than it needs to be and it's raising the probability that you are going to blow years where you could have won it all into years where you don't.

Is it really worth it? This team isn't even spending the money they "save" on goaltending on anything good. They're paying 3 mill to J. Skinner and 3 mill to Henrique while shooting themselves in the foot in net.

Skinner had a .901% last playoffs, which tells us the team in front of him is a legitimate stanley cup team. The Oilers probably look at Colorado who won the cup with their starter putting up a .902%. The problem is, that Colorado team might have been the best team in the cap era.

Unless the Oilers acquire another slam-dunk Ekholm-caliber defenseman or top-end forward, I don't see them achieving that level of hockey. The Oilers should be especially concerned that it's unlikely the team dominates the PP AND PK at historically good levels again during the playoffs.

At any rate, they should not expect that last year was a baseline. If they go into the playoffs with another Henrique-level addition, though he's been good, they aren't going to win the cup. The obvious area to upgrade is goaltending, but I don't think they're interested in doing that. So they need to acquire serious talent at the deadline. I'm reserving my judgment till I see who they add.

 

[Mr Positive]

Who are these guys. I'd venture that there is not a single cheap goalie in the league that could reliably put up a .915 on any team. It just does not work the way you think, that moving from a bad team to a good one adds .015 points. If it did every good team would have cheap goalies with .915+ sv%'s.

Sure it isn't a guaranteed thing, but it is possible. That is the point of not just doing advanced stat breakdowns, but actual scouting.

That's also why I prefer a low cap option. Maybe we try and it doesn't work. Ideally you operate like Colorado and just keep gambling until you hit. And btw I'm not totally sold on Blackwood. We wouldn't have to jump the gun on the extension like Colorado did

 

[Soundwave]

Sure it isn't a guaranteed thing, but it is possible. That is the point of not just doing advanced stat breakdowns, but actual scouting.

That's also why I prefer a low cap option. Maybe we try and it doesn't work. Ideally you operate like Colorado and just keep gambling until you hit. And btw I'm not totally sold on Blackwood. We wouldn't have to jump the gun on the extension like Colorado did

Even if the Oilers acquired like Talbot again to be a 1A/B or Gibson @50% they still wouldn't be spending a lot on goaltending. 2.6 + 2.5 mill (Talbot) is barely 5 million total.