Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[foshizzle]

No, not even a remote chance this happens. Jesse struggled here, a return would be worse. Only if Pitt took J Skinner back and even then Jesse would likely be 4th line...not in a position to succeed. I like the guy but he isn't coming back, he'll find work back home or KHL.

He didn’t struggle here. He did what Podz did but infinitely better. He was excellent under Tippett, but couldn’t find his footing under Woodcroft. Woodcroft asked him to be physical- which he did- was at the top of team for hits before he got hurt. He also has poor finishing, but somehow his finishing is better than the atrocious finishing ability of Podz.

I think JP would be excellent in Knobs system on the third line. He’s an excellent disrupter and creates space for his linemates. For the price- it’s a no brainer.

GYB [or maybe Oilers Now segment] were talking about this in one of the eps when Skinner progressively got himself demoted in the line up.

Skinner was so accustomed to being the hero offensive player on a horrible Buffalo team, he never adapted his game to be second fiddle. Guy has no idea what to do when he doesn't have the puck and when he does end up with it, he has tunnel vision. It's why he'll never work with McDrai

They gave him a whopping 50 mins to try to adapt to their game…lol

 

[Oilslick941611]

If circle jerking is your thing and putting heads in the sand while drinking blue koolaid is somebody's thing, I agree

its honestly than better reading the constant hate and bullshit on here about a damn good team.

 

[McDoused]

I initially thought the same thing about Skinner, maybe try him on PP1 or on Drai/McDs wing. But the more I watch the more I think he has lost his competitive edge. I mentioned earlier he has brief glimpses of very good hands but so does Savoie in the minors. J Skinner isn’t a prospect though and either he can motivate himself to be better or it ends up being a failed experiment. From an asset mgmt. standpoint it makes sense but the Oilers are trying to be contenders apparently

It's not complicated. A coaches job is to approach the season one game at a time and try to win the next game in front of them. They want to ice the lineup they think gives them best chance of winning the game. Knoblauch doesn't have a plan for Skinner and hasn't given him the opportunity to redeem himself. Playing him in the bottom 6 isn't going to work. Even when Arvidsson was injured, he put Kapanen in the top 6.

It's up to management to manage assets and make short sacrifices for long term gains. Bowman needs to intervene and remind Knoblauch that this is a business and it's in the best interest of the team long term to increase Skinners value.

Skinner has 6 EVG and 11 EVP averaging 12:04 per game (mostly in the bottom 6). Playing him 15 minutes a night in the top 6 and those numbers likely double.

 

[backhandsauce]

How can we get Luukkonen out of Buffalo.

Stu Skinner, Beau Akey and a 1st? Seems like a high price but he is the real deal.

​

 

[iCanada]

He didn’t struggle here. He did what Podz did but infinitely better. He was excellent under Tippett, but couldn’t find his footing under Woodcroft. Woodcroft asked him to be physical- which he did- was at the top of team for hits before he got hurt. He also has poor finishing, but somehow his finishing is better than the atrocious finishing ability of Podz.

I think JP would be excellent in Knobs system on the third line. He’s an excellent disrupter and creates space for his linemates. For the price- it’s a no brainer.


They gave him a whopping 50 mins to try to adapt to their game…lol

5 on 5 - Skinner has played 58 minutes with Draisaitl, 47 minutes with McDavid, 5 minutes with both of them, and 310 minutes without either of them.

He's been in the top 6 for 26.2% of his 410 5 on 5 minutes so far this season.

He had opportunity, he just did nothing with it. He's played basically just as much with McDavid and Draisaitl as Kapanen has - he just did nothing with it.

Kapanen with one or both of McDavid or Draisaitl - 2.7 GF/60 minutes, 1.7 GA/60, 126 minutes.

Skinner with one or both of McDavid or Draisaitl - 1.1 GF/60 minutes (!!!), 5.9 GA/60 (!!!), 110 minutes.

For reference - McDavid is 3.7 GF/60 & 2.9 GA/60 on the year, and Draisaitl is 3.2 GF/60 & 1.8 GA/60 (!!!) - including this 10% of their ice time on the year they played with Skinner and both didn't score and got scored on at will.

Skinner without either of those guys had been 1.7 GF/60 and 2.9 GA/60.

At a certain point, your results are so bad you don't get any more time to adapt. Skinner's own atrocious results with both McDavid and Draisaitl are why he hasn't gotten any more rope. And he's been less bad, but still really bad on his own. He got scratched because he's been getting caved in all year.

 

[Mr Kot]

How can we get Luukkonen out of Buffalo.

Stu Skinner, Beau Akey and a 1st? Seems like a high price but he is the real deal.

​

Too much for a goalie, i think it would be either just the 1st or akey with skinner. You could probably even do lower if Buffalo starts fire selling.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

People shitting on Skinner for being a defensive liability while bouchard has been that to upteenth degree this year but doesn't miss a shift and doesn't get demoted

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

5 on 5 - Skinner has played 58 minutes with Draisaitl, 47 minutes with McDavid, 5 minutes with both of them, and 310 minutes without either of them.

He's been in the top 6 for 26.2% of his 410 5 on 5 minutes so far this season.

He had opportunity, he just did nothing with it. He's played basically just as much with McDavid and Draisaitl as Kapanen has - he just did nothing with it.

Kapanen with one or both of McDavid or Draisaitl - 2.7 GF/60 minutes, 1.7 GA/60, 126 minutes.

Skinner with one or both of McDavid or Draisaitl - 1.1 GF/60 minutes (!!!), 5.9 GA/60 (!!!), 110 minutes.

For reference - McDavid is 3.7 GF/60 & 2.9 GA/60 on the year, and Draisaitl is 3.2 GF/60 & 1.8 GA/60 (!!!) - including this 10% of their ice time on the year they played with Skinner and both didn't score and got scored on at will.

Skinner without either of those guys had been 1.7 GF/60 and 2.9 GA/60.

At a certain point, your results are so bad you don't get any more time to adapt. Skinner's own atrocious results with both McDavid and Draisaitl are why he hasn't gotten any more rope. And he's been less bad, but still really bad on his own. He got scratched because he's been getting caved in all year.

Yikes those are ugly numbers. No one was producing anything with it or without McDrai at that point in season though and S skinner was sporting like an 870 sv%. Hyman was on pace for like 10 goals. Most of the club had zero or one goal. It was brutal.

I would like to see him get at least a couple of shifts now that the offence as a whole seems to have pulled their head out of their ass.

 

[iCanada]

People shitting on Skinner for being a defensive liability while bouchard has been that to upteenth degree this year but doesn't miss a shift and doesn't get demoted

Skinner - 1.7 GF/60 & 3.2 GA/60 across the year 5 on 5.

Bouchard - 3.2 GF/60 & 2.3 GA/60 across the year 5 on 5.

One guy scores more and gets scored on less - the other guy scores less and gets scored on more. But sure, they're the same.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

People shitting on Skinner for being a defensive liability while bouchard has been that to upteenth degree this year but doesn't miss a shift and doesn't get demoted

Did you really just post this. Maybe take a step back.

 

[VeteranPresence]

How can we get Luukkonen out of Buffalo.

Stu Skinner, Beau Akey and a 1st? Seems like a high price but he is the real deal.

​

UPL would be a great get and it makes sense for Buffalo since they aren't close to contending during his upcoming extension. Levi is the future in net there and Skinner could maybe be a decent backup with proper coaching.

 

[iCanada]

Yikes those are ugly numbers. No one was producing anything with it or without McDrai at that point in season though and S skinner was sporting like an 870 sv%. Hyman was on pace for like 10 goals. Most of the club had zero or one goal. It was brutal.

I would like to see him get at least a couple of shifts now that the offence as a whole seems to have pulled their head out of their ass.

Difference is - everyone else had good expected and underlying numbers.

Skinner managed to make McDavid and Draisaitl negative xGF% players.

Skinner with McDavid - 2.7 xGF/60, 3.9 xGA/60.
Skinner with Draisaitl - 2.0 xGF/60, 2.8 xGA/60.

Hyman meanwhile had the best xGF% on the team while he wasn't scoring.

 

[Fourier]

GYB [or maybe Oilers Now segment] were talking about this in one of the eps when Skinner progressively got himself demoted in the line up.

Skinner was so accustomed to being the hero offensive player on a horrible Buffalo team, he never adapted his game to be second fiddle. Guy has no idea what to do when he doesn't have the puck and when he does end up with it, he has tunnel vision. It's why he'll never work with McDrai

If you look at Skinner's career years 5 vs 5 the centers he played the most with and had the best success were Casey Mittlestad and Derek Ryan. Skinner is a guy who wants the puck on his stick. He is best when he is the main threat on the line playing more so vs guys lower down on the pecking order. He has often been over 80% IPP. That generally means he is the guy with the puck on his line or he is the primary target to feed.

I don't think Knoblauch's issue with Skinner has been lack of production. I think it is that his lines have been bleeding goals much of the season. When Skinner has been on the ice the team gives up 3.16 GA/60. When he is off the ice it has been 2.12. It does not get better when he plays up the line-up with McDavid and Leon. Whether or not this is all on Skinner is of course not clear. But it is what it is.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Difference is - everyone else had good expected and underlying numbers.

Skinner managed to make McDavid and Draisaitl negative xGF% players.

Skinner with McDavid - 2.7 xGF/60, 3.9 xGA/60.
Skinner with Draisaitl - 2.0 xGF/60, 2.8 xGA/60.

Hyman meanwhile had the best xGF% on the team while he wasn't scoring.

Fair enough. Should not be getting out chanced playing with McDavid.

 

[backhandsauce]

Get Skinner on L1 and put Nuge in the 3C hole. (Keep PP1 unit as is)

Get Skinner going here boys.

 

[iCanada]

Fair enough. Should not be getting out chanced playing with McDavid.

Yeah - and to be fair - it might not even be Skinner's fault, maybe McDavid just is bad with him. But regardless... It clearly doesn't work.

And he has been dragging Rico down since;

As far as I can tell, this 200 minute stretch with Skinner is the only time Rico has not been a positive possession player playing hard minutes. But he's still done a good job stopping the bleeding on Skinner.

One thing I'll give Skinner - he has been pretty good at creating offense in the sheltered 4th line role. Still snake bitten, but that line with him / Perry / Ryan been pretty effective analytically.

That said - I don't think that's what our team needs, I think we're a better team with big hard noses 4th liners.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

I know. I'm saying when Wright got bumped, he immediately stopped being a consensus pick and dropped several positions
The same should have been for JP. Alot of ppl saw Tkachuk as the perfect finisher for McD.

I'm sorry there just isn't any logic to what you're saying. These aren't the same situations.

 

[iCanada]

If you look at Skinner's career years 5 vs 5 the centers he played the most with and had the best success were Casey Mittlestad and Derek Ryan. Skinner is a guy who wants the puck on his stick. He is best when he is the main threat on the line playing more so vs guys lower down on the pecking order. He has often been over 80% IPP. That generally means he is the guy with the puck on his line or he is the primary target to feed.

I don't think Knoblauch's issue with Skinner has been lack of production. I think it is that his lines have been bleeding goals much of the season. When Skinner has been on the ice the team gives up 3.16 GA/60. When he is off the ice it has been 2.12. It does not get better when he plays up the line-up with McDavid and Leon. Whether or not this is all on Skinner is of course not clear. But it is what it is.

Ultimately I don't think it really matters if it is his fault or not.

Skinner just isn't helping us win games right now, period.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Did you really just post this. Maybe take a step back.

No you're totally right two games to start the year where everyone was sucking is a good indicator of a player being capable in the top six.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

No you're totally right two games to start the year where everyone was sucking is a good indicator of a player being capable in the top six.

This was NOT your previous point. However while your passion is to cheered just saying be a little more careful with your comparison analysis.

 

[Slats432]

Is today the day we bring PoolParty/Bison King home? Lol.

If we are going to add a F, how about a good one? JP is not good.

How can we get Luukkonen out of Buffalo.

Stu Skinner, Beau Akey and a 1st? Seems like a high price but he is the real deal.

​

Why would Buffalo trade a goalie who is the real deal that they just signed for 5 years five months ago?

 

[McShogun99]

Get Skinner on L1 and put Nuge in the 3C hole. (Keep PP1 unit as is)

Get Skinner going here boys.

When Kane is back I think we should move RNH to 3C and Rico to 4C. there isn't a team in the league that can match that center depth.

 

[Stoneman89]

Self induced vomiting!!

I've done plenty of that in my past. Usually with the assistance of alcohol.

There's actually a very good reason to play pod over skinner. Everyone else on the ice has better offensive numbers with him. Podkolzin absolutely crushes Skinner in terms of xgf and hdcf per 60, both overall and in terms of numbers with draisaitl. Our overall even strength scoring as a team suffers with Jeff skinner over podkolzin despite skinner being individually more productive. I'm open to trying other players with mcdrai with how much rnh has been struggling this season, but the worst player on the team need not apply.

Another thing about Pod, and I think it will be huge, is that he is already playing heavy playoff style hockey. You can see he is going to be a factor and right at home once the real shooting starts. Sure don't see that type of game from Skinner.

 

[Stoneman89]

What he did as a head coach has no bearing on what he did as a manager. As a manager he left that team in a state that took years to repair.

I would argue that there have been plenty of others who had a far worse track record and with a lot more to work with.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Skinner - 1.7 GF/60 & 3.2 GA/60 across the year 5 on 5.

Bouchard - 3.2 GF/60 & 2.3 GA/60 across the year 5 on 5.

One guy scores more and gets scored on less - the other guy scores less and gets scored on more. But sure, they're the same.

Yeah clearly I want debating the difference in their production this season if you can't see through the fog of what my original post was about thats on you. One player gets to play significant time with Leon and mcdavid while the other gets significant time with Derek Ryan and henrique I'm shocked bouchards numbers are better shocked.