Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[Soundwave]

Most of these players simply didn't deserve a shot with mcdrai. This is not the first stretch of Skinner's career where he's been ass. 2019-21 skinner was just as useless and unproductive. He's just simply a liability when he isn't finishing goals. Other players at least contribute positively when not scoring. Reider was done by the time he got to Edmonton and struggled the season before and after leaving too. Foegele and McLeod numbers were perfectly fine in Edmonton, it's just that one was overpaid and the other was overhated by fans. Both got several opportunities with mcdrai, they weren't neglected at all. Holloway was starting to get reps with draisaitl last playoffs too and would've likely continued to get looks this season had Jackson/Bowman not lost their mind and signed useless bums like Skinner/henrique. The only actual player who probably didn't get a fair shpt here is Ryan strome. As for the draisaitl effect. He gave Kailer Yamamoto a 26 point in 27 game season. Nuff said.

Yeah Yamamoto had that one short stretch, and then that line played like they had never played together before after that.

If I was an agent and the Oilers are trying to convince my client to sign there on the basis of the "Draisaitl effect", I'd pass on signing here. There's no real track record of that having any success here long term with anyone.

It's the "McDavid effect" that matters but the team hoardes and locks out players from ever getting a shot at playing with McDavid, Foegele alluded to this in his comments about signing elsewhere, guys on the roster know there's basically a handful of players that ever get to play with McDavid (basically) and if you're not in that club your opportunities are limited.

Because he certainly got to play with Leon here, the fact that he still felt his opportunities were limited here tells you he didn't feel like that was good enough.

 

[oilers4life5]

Is today the day we bring PoolParty/Bison King home? Lol.

 

[McTedi]

Is today the day we bring PoolParty/Bison King home? Lol.

No, not even a remote chance this happens. Jesse struggled here, a return would be worse. Only if Pitt took J Skinner back and even then Jesse would likely be 4th line...not in a position to succeed. I like the guy but he isn't coming back, he'll find work back home or KHL.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Even attempting to have an objective view of Skinner means you're a "fanboy" or some bullshit. People here have lost the plot.

quite frankly reddit has a better community of oiler fans now. All this place does is shit on the team

 

[frag2]

I think there is 1 big issues for Skinner and 2 small ones.

The big one: Neither McDavid or Drai seem to enjoy playing with a winger that likes to fade into the background and find soft spots in coverage (the Ebs/Skinner, type), or someone who likes to control the puck and play the game their way (see the friction at times between Kand and Drai).

For the last half-decade the MOs of the wingers that work well with McDrai are either a) guys that are willing to hound the puck up and down the ice, and quickly get it back to the centre. (RNH, Podz, Hyman, Foegele, McLeod, Pulju, Yams; Or b) Have the size and willingness to go to the net and occupy one or more defenders (Hyman, Kane, Maroon, Kassian, Chiasson. and Neal.


Considering this team has several guys who fit those templates, it's not hard to see how Skinner hasn't gotten a chance. For a winger who's only useful when they're spoonfed offensive usage, Jeff is potentially 6th or 7th in terms guys I'm tossing out there when I need a goal.

McDavid
Drai
Hyman
RNH
Arvidsson
Skinner/Henrique?

2) Thanks to his skating, Kapanen has come in and more or less stolen Skinner's potential spot as the offensive winger who bounces up and down the lineup as needed.

3) Kane will be back by the playoffs, and brings far more to the table.

GYB [or maybe Oilers Now segment] were talking about this in one of the eps when Skinner progressively got himself demoted in the line up.

Skinner was so accustomed to being the hero offensive player on a horrible Buffalo team, he never adapted his game to be second fiddle. Guy has no idea what to do when he doesn't have the puck and when he does end up with it, he has tunnel vision. It's why he'll never work with McDrai

 

[McTedi]

If I was an agent I would be looking at the Oilers fast growing reputation as a team where offensive talent seems to die.

Ryan Strome couldn’t piss a drop here.
Skinner, a life long elite goal scorer can’t find the twine here.
Reider couldn’t score ONE goal.
Browns production dropped(although you can blame injury on this).
Ennis production immediately better before and after his stint in hometown Edmonton.
Foegeles numbers increase as he leaves.
Mcleod’s numbers increase as he leaves.
Holloway’s numbers increase as leaves.

If we can’t find a way to make JSkinner work here, good luck finding offensive wingers moving forward. Especially if we don’t give him any opportunity to succeed. It’s hard enough sell for offensive forwards to come to a team with ZERO PP time offered.

Oh and when will it be okay to talk about the LACK of a Draisaitl effect. If Drai was who we say he is, Kapenen and Podz would be popping off no? Mcleod and Foegele would have continued working on his wing, no? Skinner and Arviddson should have popped off too on his wing, no? How bout sustained success with either Holloway or Kane?

We sure give a lot of credit to Drai for carrying his wingers and I’m guilty of it too. But where are the results?

Hyman and Barrie say Hi. It's not all on the team diminishing offence. Those were players (you listed) taken on flyers so that they could reinvigorate some offensive spark. Not including the Oiler prospects McLeod, Foegs or Holloway. Those 3 kind of support your position, as they were put in a better position to flourish elsewhere. FTR I wanted the Oilers to match Holloway as I think he was going to break out this year. But I absolutely disagree with your take on Skinner, he hasn't shown enough to bump anyone out of the top six including RNH who is floundering on offense.

GYB [or maybe Oilers Now segment] were talking about this in one of the eps when Skinner progressively got himself demoted in the line up.

Skinner was so accustomed to being the hero offensive player on a horrible Buffalo team, he never adapted his game to be second fiddle. Guy has no idea what to do when he doesn't have the puck and when he does end up with it, he has tunnel vision. It's why he'll never work with McDrai

Tunnel vision is a good term for it. He has flashes of good hands but can't create enough chances on his own.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

quite frankly reddit has a better community of oiler fans now. All this place does is shit on the team

If circle jerking is your thing and putting heads in the sand while drinking blue koolaid is somebody's thing, I agree

 

[barry halls]

J Skinner was all wrong for this team from the start. We need as much speed, size, and toughness on the wings as we can get - that Byfield line had their way with the Oilers and I feel like this year's version of the Kings will be the hardest version of L.A. that we have faced in the playoffs.

Knoblauch has proven to be pretty on-the-money when it comes to deployment; I trust that his usage of Skinner is based on close observation of his play & analytics and not some weird vendetta against the player. In my opinion the J Skinner conundrum is on management for deciding to rush to sign an ageing buyout, and on the player for having poor habits.

 

[oilers4life5]

No, not even a remote chance this happens. Jesse struggled here, a return would be worse. Only if Pitt took J Skinner back and even then Jesse would likely be 4th line...not in a position to succeed. I like the guy but he isn't coming back, he'll find work back home or KHL.

Sorry I was being sarcastic. Appreciate the effort you put in.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Is today the day we bring PoolParty/Bison King home? Lol.

Why would you even want him back lol? He's failed in every organization he's had a chance in.

Edit: Didn't realize you were being sarcastic

 

[Messrules11]

Is today the day we bring PoolParty/Bison King home? Lol.

Good grief I really hope not, he’s washed out of two more franchises since we got rid of him. The guy sucks.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

quite frankly reddit has a better community of oiler fans now. All this place does is shit on the team

Reddit is even worse than here for being a hive mind like community.

Though I agree this place gets way too negative. Lose 2 games and suddenly LA is apparently destroying us in the playoffs. Gets a bit ridiculous.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Georgeiv was already almost costing 4 mill as is, if Blackwood is a large upgrade for only 1.25 mill-ish more that's not a bad move.

We shouldn't be spending bargain basement on goaltending to begin with. It's an important position.

Spending $1.25 more than Georgeiv doesn't make this a good deal. That's like saying we are spending 2 million less than Jack Campbell on Skinner so we are good for goaltending. 5.25 on Blackwood is not good.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Spending $1.25 more than Georgeiv doesn't make this a good deal. That's like saying we are spending 2 million less than Jack Campbell on Skinner so we are good for goaltending. 5.25 on Blackwood is not good.

I mean 1.25 million more to get goaltending that’s currently 13th in the league instead of 89th seems like pretty decent bang for your buck to me.

 

[Louis Cypher]

I mean 1.25 million more to get goaltending that’s currently 13th in the league instead of 89th seems like pretty decent bang for your buck to me.

Point taken. Bad signing fixed by them but not a great $ number. Like us with Campbell i guess but we still need fixing.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Absolutely this is becoming a worrying trend here. If I was a player agent I'd tell my clients to steer clear of Edmonton if they think they're going to there to get easy offense. It's becoming a bit of a fraud of a sales pitch. Not unless you are getting time with McDavid and on PP unit 1, don't count on big offense here.

Bottom line there is very little top 6 opportunity here. That said a player like Podkolzin has made the most of his, but he is going to have to start scoring at some point.

 

[McTedi]

Sorry I was being sarcastic. Appreciate the effort you put in.

Thanks, I appreciate your sarcastic post lol

 

[iCanada]

People are actually saying there is no top 6 opportunity in Edmonto? While we're literally playing a guy we got off of waivers and a guy we got for pennies on the dollar because Vancouver was going to lose him to waivers in our top 6?!

It's a strange world some people seem to live in.

Skinner's problems are his own making.

 

[McTedi]

Bottom line there is very little top 6 opportunity here. That said a player like Podkolzin has made the most of his, but he is going to have to start scoring at some point.

Ideally yes. But as long as he helps production on that line I have no problem letting it ride a little longer.

 

[McTedi]

Spending $1.25 more than Georgeiv doesn't make this a good deal. That's like saying we are spending 2 million less than Jack Campbell on Skinner so we are good for goaltending. 5.25 on Blackwood is not good.

Avs are arguably worse at identifying goalies than we are. I think they had a better shot running with Kuemper. Not sure our guy Skinner is the answer long term but he is on a value contract right now.

 

[bobbythebrain]

What are you talking about? Edmonton picked right after CBJ

I know. I'm saying when Wright got bumped, he immediately stopped being a consensus pick and dropped several positions
The same should have been for JP. Alot of ppl saw Tkachuk as the perfect finisher for McD.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

People are actually saying there is no top 6 opportunity in Edmonto? While we're literally playing a guy we got off of waivers and a guy we got for pennies on the dollar because Vancouver was going to lose him to waivers in our top 6?!

It's a strange world some people seem to live in.

Skinner's problems are his own making.

Skinner got in knobs doghouse and deserved it but Knob hasn’t given him an inch since. It’s kind of ridiculous expecting him to succeed or pull himself out of a rut on the 4th line. It’s like trying to jam a square block through a circle hole.

 

[McDoused]

There's actually a very good reason to play pod over skinner. Everyone else on the ice has better offensive numbers with him. Podkolzin absolutely crushes Skinner in terms of xgf and hdcf per 60, both overall and in terms of numbers with draisaitl. Our overall even strength scoring as a team suffers with Jeff skinner over podkolzin despite skinner being individually more productive. I'm open to trying other players with mcdrai with how much rnh has been struggling this season, but the worst player on the team need not apply.

It's not that Podkolzin's advanced stats are excellent. It's that the actual results with him with either McDavid or Draisaitl are excellent. Maybe not from an individual point perspective, but from an outscoring perspective.

McDavid with Podkolzin in 43 minutes outscored opposition 4-1
McDavid with Skinner in 50 minutes outscored by the opposition 1-7

Draisaitl with Podkolzin in 292 minutes outscored the opposition 14-9
Draisaitl with Skinner in 61 minutes outscored by the opposition 1-3

One guy has 12 points and is +5
The other guy has 12 points and is -11

I'm far from a Podkolzin in the top 6 fan. But Skinner need to stop getting wildly outscored if he wants to play more.

Look, I get it. I would staple Podkolzin to Draisaitl. I agree that he's earned the opportunity but to this point he's only managed to score 3 goals. At some point the scoring chances and advanced analytics need to turn into results and production. He's just never been known for his production, while Skinner has proven to be a 40 goal scorer and point producer when put in the right situation.

Jeff Skinner signed here to play with one of McDavid or Draisaitl and to this point he really hasn't been given the opportunity. The sample size isn't large enough and he hasn't had the chance to try and gel with either player.

Knoblauch doesn't care about a players value, to the point where he's playing him 6 minutes a night or healthy scratching him. He's essentially ruined any value that Skinner would have on the market and made him unmoveable.

One thing this group has never understood is asset management. They have an old school mentality where guys have to earn it. Knoblauch should staple Skinner to McDavid in the hopes of pumping and dumping him. Instead we have coaches who played Caleb Jones ahead of Evan Bouchard. Knoblauch sent Broberg and Holloway to the minors instead of giving them a role, until he was forced into it.

Skinner needs to be put in a position where he can start producing. If you want to trade him down the road, at least he will have some value. It's not like Podkolzin /Nuge are going anywhere.

 

[North]

People are actually saying there is no top 6 opportunity in Edmonto? While we're literally playing a guy we got off of waivers and a guy we got for pennies on the dollar because Vancouver was going to lose him to waivers in our top 6?!

It's a strange world some people seem to live in.

Skinner's problems are his own making.

This. He started with Drai and Arvidsson but Arvidsson was the one who looked like he had chemistry with Drai.

Skinner was just there.

 

[McTedi]

Look, I get it. I would staple Podkolzin to Draisaitl. I agree that he's earned the opportunity but to this point he's only managed to score 3 goals. At some point the scoring chances and advanced analytics need to turn into results and production. He's just never been known for his production, while Skinner has proven to be a 40 goal scorer and point producer when put in the right situation.

Jeff Skinner signed here to play with one of McDavid or Draisaitl and to this point he really hasn't been given the opportunity. The sample size isn't large enough and he hasn't had the chance to try and gel with either player.

Knoblauch doesn't care about a players value, to the point where he's playing him 6 minutes a night or healthy scratching him. He's essentially ruined any value that Skinner would have on the market and made him unmoveable.

One thing this group has never understood is asset management. They have an old school mentality where guys have to earn it. Knoblauch should staple Skinner to McDavid in the hopes of pumping and dumping him. Instead we have coaches who played Caleb Jones ahead of Evan Bouchard. Knoblauch sent Broberg and Holloway to the minors instead of giving them a role, until he was forced into it.

Skinner needs to be put in a position where he can start producing. If you want to trade him down the road, at least he will have some value. It's not like Podkolzin /Nuge are going anywhere.

I initially thought the same thing about Skinner, maybe try him on PP1 or on Drai/McDs wing. But the more I watch the more I think he has lost his competitive edge. I mentioned earlier he has brief glimpses of very good hands but so does Savoie in the minors. J Skinner isn’t a prospect though and either he can motivate himself to be better or it ends up being a failed experiment. From an asset mgmt. standpoint it makes sense but the Oilers are trying to be contenders apparently