Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's the Beef?

[North]

I don’t want to complain. I want us to win and get us the help to win. When we are winning, do I complain? You act like I’m the only one who complains.

No but you have these tantrums a lot when trades happen and we are not the aquiring team, even for middling players.

 

[brentashton]

Maatta, Benning and Liljegren off the board while Bowman stands pat.

Good. That shit is garbage. It should end up at the curb not on the Oiler roster.

 

[McTonyBrar]

No but you have these tantrums a lot when trades happen and we are not the aquiring team, even for middling players.

Then block me man. Sometimes frustrations come out for things like this when your team is struggling. Don’t tell me it hasn’t happened to you

 

[North]

Then block me man. Sometimes frustrations come out for things like this when your team is struggling. Don’t tell me it hasn’t happened to you

I’m responding to a public post. Just pointing out the behaviour is a little annoying.

I wouldn’t say anything if you were a little more discerning about who you get upset about us not acquiring but look at the list you mentioned before. Not a single player in there to be heated about.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I’m responding to a public post. Just pointing out the behaviour is a little annoying.

I wouldn’t say anything if you were a little more discerning about who you get upset about us not acquiring but look at the list you mentioned before. Not a single player in there to be heated about.

Yep. It’s annoying when other teams trade for what we need but we don’t need any of those guys. Liljegren might turn out but that’s not what we need.

 

[belair]

Maatta, Benning and Liljegren off the board while Bowman stands pat.

A fart, a shart and a big ol' dump.

 

[belair]

I noticed that Adam Boqvist isn't off to a torrid start in Florida. I would absolutely be open to claiming him at the expense of Dermott if they decide to throw him on waivers.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Then block me man. Sometimes frustrations come out for things like this when your team is struggling. Don’t tell me it hasn’t happened to you

@North is the self appointed moderator on these these boards. Didn't you know?

 

[North]

I noticed that Adam Boqvist isn't off to a torrid start in Florida. I would absolutely be open to claiming him at the expense of Dermott if they decide to throw him on waivers.

Couldn’t be any worse than Dermott.

 

[brentashton]

Yep. It’s annoying when other teams trade for what we need but we don’t need any of those guys. Liljegren might turn out but that’s not what we need.

Out of those three turds who is going to help this clown car?

Please explain how Lilljegren will help.

The player hasn’t helped push Toronto to any conference or SC Finals that I recall.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

We had enough #7 scrubs vying for spots in Dermott Emberson and Stetcher

Lilljegren and the rest aren’t the answer…aim higher

 

[Scrapin Ice]

kovacevic playing down on the second pair tonight with hughes/Pesce back. He plays first Pk and through the first with Vancouver has the most time on ice. Right hander skates well passes well, can be a warrior. Cap hit 765k.
S. Nemec needs ice time. Kovacevic likely could be had for a slight overpay. Very good foil for Nurse and his brain farts.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I’m responding to a public post. Just pointing out the behaviour is a little annoying.

I wouldn’t say anything if you were a little more discerning about who you get upset about us not acquiring but look at the list you mentioned before. Not a single player in there to be heated about.

You're probably right. Looking back a few hours later, it seems like I was overreacting to garbage players. Thanks for setting me straight lol

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I noticed that Adam Boqvist isn't off to a torrid start in Florida. I would absolutely be open to claiming him at the expense of Dermott if they decide to throw him on waivers.

Florida lost 3 dmen in the offseason and he went into the year slotted in as PP1 QB in a fulltime role and he fumbled it quickly.

I doubt he's worth claiming

 

[Jumptheshark]

I noticed that Adam Boqvist isn't off to a torrid start in Florida. I would absolutely be open to claiming him at the expense of Dermott if they decide to throw him on waivers.

He is averaging 11.30 a game. When you are not getting on the ice you tend to get off to a slow start. There must be something in his game that is concerning the panthers and why the BJS did not tender him a new contract

 

[CanadasTeam99]

Lets see if Bowman can do something before Alvinn in Vancouver. He is looking for a dman as well. They have never been a great defensive team. They usually have goalies bail them out. Silovs is sucking, but the other guy has been carrying Vancouver. Can't spell his name. Lankinnen or whatever

 

[CycloneSweep]

Out of those three turds who is going to help this clown car?

Please explain how Lilljegren will help.

The player hasn’t helped push Toronto to any conference or SC Finals that I recall.

I don’t think he will help. He is a player that in a change of scenery COULD turn things around but that’s a risk for a team like San Jose can make cause there is zero repercussions. Thats not a contender move.

 

[McAsuno]

I'd personally like Provorov.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

I'd personally like Provorov.

Whats not to like? He plays both sides too. Right now he is playing beside Werenski sometimes and doing a bang up job. They like him alot.

1) how much would he cost?
2) how are you going to make a 4.75 mil cap hit work?
3) If you are spending those kind of assets you would probably like to resign him...how would you do this if your signing Bouchard to a very big raise?

I like him alot too and had him over Ekholm before we made that trade aways back. But why would he be available even at the deadline and even if CBJ's are sucking?

 

[bucks_oil]

Adin Hill made $2.18m going toe to toe with said $10M multiple Vezina winner the year before

Luck and trying to catch lightning in a bottle is not a strategy. Having three-four mid-talent goalies like Hill and having them compete for opportunity until someone gets hot? That actually IS a strategy. Vegas got lucky on Hill because, despite low-odds, they cast the dice multiple times.

We run our goaltending succession planning like a team that has established excellence at the position. Positions are annointed and then adjusted only after catastrophe. There is zero competition for roles.

@Soundwave seems to want consistent above average starter performance but isn't willing to pay for it. That's not how it works.

We also haven't invested in developing goalies, else wise why did we pass on Wallstadt? That's the only way to get a cheap, high end goalie.

Look... I don't mind people complaining about goaltending or Skinner specifically, but you guys are missing the point entirely.

Our team is CONSTRUCTED to favor top-end offensive talent AT THE EXPENSE of top-end defensive / goaltending talent.

And then, we seem confused to have lost a 2-1 SCF finals game.

Why would you ever expect we'd be the team coming out on top of a score like that? We're built to win 4-2 by forcing and capitalizing on mistakes with our superior offense.

If both teams play close to their level of perfection... then we AREN'T the team that's going to outlast in a game of mistake-free hockey. We just aren't. We aren't built that way. We haven't invested in the best low-mistake players... the other team has. Kulak made a mistake, he was too deep. As a consequence, Skinner was also too deep (that's what happens your D are backing up on you, you back up too to preserve sightlines). Two mistakes and it's over.... unless...

We've invested in a team that punishes, even creates, mistakes. If we failed to create those mistakes, or punish the mistakes that were there, well then blame your top-end talent for failing to execute, or blame your investment strategy, not the low-end "fill out the roster" defense and goalies we invested very little in. They played exactly as anyone would expect them to... good enough to compete, but not good enough to be difference makers. They aren't paid to make a difference.

 

[Whyme]

Pleease I hope no-one is annoyed by me writing this one (for now) message about Jesse Puljujarvi. If things get rough and there's a need to try something in the bottom 9 I still think he could be one option. He did have a pretty strong stretch of 1,5 seasons and he seems healthy again and the big difference is he'd come on minimum salary.

He started the season very well, one point away from ppg rate and his points/60 was in the top40 in the NHL. Got an assist again, but Sullivan still demoted him after that game and he's played under 10 minutes or now even under 5 minutes per game. Pittsburgh fans keep claiming Sullivan doesn't like European players but whatever it is, it seems he doesn't need Puljujarvi and thus something like a 3rd might be enough to get him.

The Hockey News just wrote about him so I hope a link is okay:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/latest-news/opinion-penguins-are-wasting-opportunity-with-jesse-puljujarvi

 

[Soundwave]

Luck and trying to catch lightning in a bottle is not a strategy. Having three-four mid-talent goalies like Hill and having them compete for opportunity until someone gets hot? That actually IS a strategy. Vegas got lucky on Hill because, despite low-odds, they cast the dice multiple times.

We run our goaltending succession planning like a team that has established excellence at the position. Positions are annointed and then adjusted only after catastrophe. There is zero competition for roles.

@Soundwave seems to want consistent above average starter performance but isn't willing to pay for it. That's not how it works.

We also haven't invested in developing goalies, else wise why did we pass on Wallstadt? That's the only way to get a cheap, high end goalie.

Look... I don't mind people complaining about goaltending or Skinner specifically, but you guys are missing the point entirely.

Our team is CONSTRUCTED to favor top-end offensive talent AT THE EXPENSE of top-end defensive / goaltending talent.

And then, we seem confused to have lost a 2-1 SCF finals game.

Why would you ever expect we'd be the team coming out on top of a score like that? We're built to win 4-2 by forcing and capitalizing on mistakes with our superior offense.

If both teams play close to their level of perfection... then we AREN'T the team that's going to outlast in a game of mistake-free hockey. We just aren't. We aren't built that way. We haven't invested in the best low-mistake players... the other team has. Kulak made a mistake, he was too deep. As a consequence, Skinner was also too deep (that's what happens your D are backing up on you, you back up too to preserve sightlines). Two mistakes and it's over.... unless...

We've invested in a team that punishes, even creates, mistakes. If we failed to create those mistakes, or punish the mistakes that were there, well then blame your top-end talent for failing to execute, or blame your investment strategy, not the low-end "fill out the roster" defense and goalies we invested very little in. They played exactly as anyone would expect them to... good enough to compete, but not good enough to be difference makers. They aren't paid to make a difference.

Except we did pay last year, we were sitting on 3.5 mill in dead cap in the Finals just in net alone last year because of Holland.

Holland is the one who mismanaged the goal tending position, we shouldn't have been playing Stuart Skinner in a game 7 of a Cup Final at all if he had gotten his goaltending swing correct (and/or figured he made a mistake early enough and moved on to some one better).

If he had gotten a good goalie post Koskinen (another dumb mistake was two GMs consecutively letting Koskinen playing all 4 freaking seasons here).

That's just how thin the margin is in the NHL, you can make a few mistakes (overpay Nurse here, not utilize leverage in a Keith deal, sign a disaster Kassian contract, etc. etc.) and get away with them, but Holland ran over his mistake ledger with the Campbell signing and it probably is the difference between having a Cup and not having a Cup.

I don't blame Skinner for that, I blame Holland.

And why don't we employ Vegas' strategy of trying multiple goalies until you hit on one? Here we just anoint one guy as if he's the next Grant Fuhr without any track record.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Pleease I hope no-one is annoyed by me writing this one (for now) message about Jesse Puljujarvi. If things get rough and there's a need to try something in the bottom 9 I still think he could be one option. He did have a pretty strong stretch of 1,5 seasons and he seems healthy again and the big difference is he'd come on minimum salary.

He started the season very well, one point away from ppg rate and his points/60 was in the top40 in the NHL. Got an assist again, but Sullivan still demoted him after that game and he's played under 10 minutes or now even under 5 minutes per game. Pittsburgh fans keep claiming Sullivan doesn't like European players but whatever it is, it seems he doesn't need Puljujarvi and thus something like a 3rd might be enough to get him.

The Hockey News just wrote about him so I hope a link is okay:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/latest-news/opinion-penguins-are-wasting-opportunity-with-jesse-puljujarvi

Hell no he’s awful.

 

[Whyme]

Hell no he’s awful.

Matter of taste I guess, unless you specifically ask I don't want to start posting stats or anything (I've certainly done it too much earlier) but anyone can see that his stats were actually good for the covid season and the following half a season after that. Also another good 6 month stretch so it wasn't all bad. But yes his game declined and the last season was definitely rough. But he has new hips and had a strong start in Pittsburgh and he was also one of the best Finns in the World Championships so he could provide good value for minimum salary.

But I understand if some of you feel differently and are done with him, not trying to make any of you change your opinions but wanted to mention this as I think he'll be traded anyway unless Sullivan is fired. Which obviously doesn't ever happen.

 

[Scrapin Ice]

Luck and trying to catch lightning in a bottle is not a strategy. Having three-four mid-talent goalies like Hill and having them compete for opportunity until someone gets hot? That actually IS a strategy. Vegas got lucky on Hill because, despite low-odds, they cast the dice multiple times.

We run our goaltending succession planning like a team that has established excellence at the position. Positions are annointed and then adjusted only after catastrophe. There is zero competition for roles.

@Soundwave seems to want consistent above average starter performance but isn't willing to pay for it. That's not how it works.

We also haven't invested in developing goalies, else wise why did we pass on Wallstadt? That's the only way to get a cheap, high end goalie.

Look... I don't mind people complaining about goaltending or Skinner specifically, but you guys are missing the point entirely.

Our team is CONSTRUCTED to favor top-end offensive talent AT THE EXPENSE of top-end defensive / goaltending talent.

And then, we seem confused to have lost a 2-1 SCF finals game.

Why would you ever expect we'd be the team coming out on top of a score like that? We're built to win 4-2 by forcing and capitalizing on mistakes with our superior offense.

If both teams play close to their level of perfection... then we AREN'T the team that's going to outlast in a game of mistake-free hockey. We just aren't. We aren't built that way. We haven't invested in the best low-mistake players... the other team has. Kulak made a mistake, he was too deep. As a consequence, Skinner was also too deep (that's what happens your D are backing up on you, you back up too to preserve sightlines). Two mistakes and it's over.... unless...

We've invested in a team that punishes, even creates, mistakes. If we failed to create those mistakes, or punish the mistakes that were there, well then blame your top-end talent for failing to execute, or blame your investment strategy, not the low-end "fill out the roster" defense and goalies we invested very little in. They played exactly as anyone would expect them to... good enough to compete, but not good enough to be difference makers. They aren't paid to make a difference.

1) Yes our cap is mostly spent on offense. Easy to see. Outscore your opponent. Defense kinda secondary. Lots of people here get this.
2) Everybody here seen at the beginning on last year what happened to JAY when he tried to institute the one three without the proper personnel. Changing a team from high octane offense to a counterpuncher requires vast patience and commitment and a GM that will take a hit and change out the right people for different ones.
3) Obviously in stating all this in your very pointed dialogue you have a strategy of change going forward. What is it? Where would you like to see us go?

Knobby came in and moved us back down the scale towards offense but kept some off the lessons learned during JAY's heartache and used it to his and the teams advantage. A little more two way if you will. Yes your right STU is not a high end 1A. Good for two games and the next he lays an egg. He needs a high end backup that can play 35ish games a year. And yes we need a goalie in the A that has really good potential. But what other changes would you make?