Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Post Free Agent Frenzy, Will JJ Show His Pimp Hand Again to Upgrade the Defense?

[CrazyJoeDavola]

Did all of you forget that Nurse played on that exact same team?

Klefbom's final three seasons as an Oiler he was -40 and was our #3 5v5 d-man in TOI/game. Over that same span Darnell Nurse was +8 and was our #1 5v5 d-man in TOI/game. Nurse had better GF/60 and GA/60 numbers and he dominated Klefbom in 5v5 offensive production. Both overall and per/60 (since for some reason people always like to point out that Klefbom was hurt all the time as if that made him more valuable rather than less valube).

It's literally not even close. Y'all are letting Nurse's recent shitty playoffs cloud the fact that he was a better d-man than Klefbom for basically all of their respective time here outside of his first couple of seasons when he was 20/21 years old.

The Klefbom-Larsson pairing was a bad top pair in this league. It's incredible how much Oiler fans overrate both of these two players. The one year the team was actually good with those two here it was Sekera-Russell that was the teams best pairing.

I agree. Klefbom broke the puck out like Steve Staois. Off the glass to the other team. He invented the panic kris russell rim around breakout before Ruseell even got on this team.I love the guy, but he wasn't near what Nurse has been at his best. He had a great shot at times, had moments of excellence, but he was just like any other decade of darkness oilers dman when it came to handling pressure and moving the puck in the d zone. Great 2nd pairing guy, but not much more.

 

[Captain Controversy]

I agree. Klefbom broke the puck out like Steve Staois. Off the glass to the other team. He invented the panic kris russell rim around breakout before Ruseell even got on this team.I love the guy, but he wasn't near what Nurse has been at his best. He had a great shot at times, had moments of excellence, but he was just like any other decade of darkness oilers dman when it came to handling pressure and moving the puck in the d zone. Great 2nd pairing guy, but not much more.

With this coaching style, he would be awesome.

 

[Broberg Speed]

With this coaching style, he would be awesome.

I'd like to hear the reasoning behind your statement.

Klefbom had significant flaws in his game. Out of respect for the player I'll leave it at that.

 

[Captain Controversy]

I'd like to hear the reasoning behind your statement.

Klefbom had significant flaws in his game. Out of respect for the player I'll leave it at that.

I just think that klefbom would be appreciated on this team again. He was a better d man than nurse. He had a good shot when his shoulder was okay.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

Did all of you forget that Nurse played on that exact same team?

And he made all the same mistakes he does now

I agree Nurse has the tools to transport the puck, he even looks good doing it, but what is the end results really?

He is on the road to nowhere, so the puck is usually coming back with a dman deep, like a bad pinch. How many times he skates over the blueline doesn't matter, if 9/10 we are in better shape if he iced the puck.

You have to ignore your eyes to believe in stats that demonstrate Nurse can transport the puck, if anything these stats are evidence of the shortcoming of stats lol

 

[Spawn]

And he made all the same mistakes he does now

I agree Nurse has the tools to transport the puck, he even looks good doing it, but what is the end results really?

He is on the road to nowhere, so the puck is usually coming back with a dman deep, like a bad pinch. How many times he skates over the blueline doesn't matter, if 9/10 we are in better shape if he iced the puck.

You have to ignore your eyes to believe in stats that demonstrate Nurse can transport the puck, if anything these stats are evidence of the shortcoming of stats lol

It's not stats. It's results. Nurse consistently had better results than anything Klefbom could ever dream of.

The irony about the stats comment is that for years the biggest thing in Klefbom's corner for why he was a "good" player was that he had good advanced metrics. People would just say he was unlucky year after year. But the reality is that when it came down to it, the Oilers were consistently a worse team with Klefbom on the ice than with him on the bench (or in the pressbox eating popcorn because he missed ~20 games a year like clockwork).

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

So someone brought him up a while ago, likely just because tall=tough, but Radim Zohorna had some decent fancies in limited time with the Pens.

Radim Zohorna Contract, Radim Zohorna Cap Hit, Salary and Stats | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

He might be worth a look as depth and the size doesn't hurt.

That's not why I brought him up, he was a big body who skated well for his size, had good hands, knew how to use his frame to protect the puck and he was on the ice for 35 GF and 17 GA at even strength in his career 67.3 GF%. IMO he was a superior talent to many 4th liners and replacement level players, his issue was consistency which coaches hate, he would occasionally no show and provide next to nothing. I wanted a crack at fixing his inconsistency cause I liked the player he was when he was on his game and he provided a unique element to the roster.

That said, not happening he's off to Switzerland:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811537860333605037

 

[Spawn]

Wish we had been able to add someone in the vein of Curtis Lazar to spell out Ryan this season as 4C. We can play Holloway there, but that feels like a good way to stifle his development.

 

[Canovin]

Still waiting for Jackson to pull off Stanley Cup Finals game 7 vet Ryan for McGroarty

 

[Heavy Dee]

Evander didn't find this pathetic attempt at humor funny either.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811763138427256994

 

[Soundwave]

It's not stats. It's results. Nurse consistently had better results than anything Klefbom could ever dream of.

The irony about the stats comment is that for years the biggest thing in Klefbom's corner for why he was a "good" player was that he had good advanced metrics. People would just say he was unlucky year after year. But the reality is that when it came down to it, the Oilers were consistently a worse team with Klefbom on the ice than with him on the bench (or in the pressbox eating popcorn because he missed ~20 games a year like clockwork).

It's hard to say because his shoulder fell apart right after the 2017 season, he had a massive impact on the team, they went from one game away from the Conference Final (2017 playoffs) to not even able to make the playoffs.

That's a massive impact.

 

[Howie Hodge]

And he made all the same mistakes he does now

I agree Nurse has the tools to transport the puck, he even looks good doing it, but what is the end results really?

He is on the road to nowhere, so the puck is usually coming back with a dman deep, like a bad pinch. How many times he skates over the blueline doesn't matter, if 9/10 we are in better shape if he iced the puck.

You have to ignore your eyes to believe in stats that demonstrate Nurse can transport the puck, if anything these stats are evidence of the shortcoming of stats lol

"Oh St. Alfonzo would be proud of you....."

 

[Oilhawks]

Evander didn't find this pathetic attempt at humor funny either.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811763138427256994

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Evander didn't find this pathetic attempt at humor funny either.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811763138427256994

pretty tame joke IMO

 

[Lacaar]

So I was reading through the thread and am amazed at the revisionist history going on concerning Klefbom. He was easily tracking to be a legit Number one d man in this league before his shoulder injuries. People are balking at his 38 points but forget he was also playing with much worse players than we have today. Give Klefbom the forwards on the team now and he’s a 60-70 point guy IMHO. Losing Klef and then Larrson in subsequent years really set this team back and it took a long time to recover those losses.

I think the primary difference between Kelfbom and Nurse was that Klefbom continually improved his game with experience and learning. He had some rocky stretches no doubt.

Nurse has flatlined and has even regressed. He's not improving in areas that experience normally improves a player. When I think of Nurse I don't think Wiley veteran. I think of a player that always finds himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. We say nice things like.. he's trying too hard and he needs to simplify his game. The cold hard reality is he has a fundamental issue understanding the chaos that is going on out there.

Honestly I still kind of hold out hope he had some injury and was playing through it and that some day Nurse with f***ing figure out the game of hockey. But this playoffs if something shitty was going to happen via a bounce or whatever.. it was going to be against Nurse. So many times it's not shit luck.. it's shit awareness/anticipation/understanding. Darnell Nurse is the Anti Pronger. Always finds the wrong places to be and has no f***ing clue where the puck is going next.

 

[FiveFourteenSixOne]

Ekholm and Hyman were amazing adds. Such classy guys. Teams win with character like this.

Both of them are even better people than they are hockey players, and they are amazing hockey players.

 

[K1984]

That’s great people agree with you, but it does t align with the facts. Why hasn’t he done it all these years? Is it something he is just going to pick up as he nears 30? Here’s an interesting fact- you know who the worst on our team (defence) is the worst at puck retrievals? Nurse. You know who is the worst in controlled exits once puck is retrieved- Nurse. Final metric- you know who leads the team in uncontrolled exits (throwing the puck out to no one) Nurse. So, Nurse can’t get the puck to skate it out. When he does he usually ices it. When he doesn’t ice it- he can’t exit controlled. A stay at home d man isn’t going to fix that.

Here's a fact that you have repetitively ignored in this thread - Nurse was 5th in the league in controlled zone exits in 19-20. His game has devolved since then, but you have a hard time recognizing it for some reason.

I don't know if reading comprehension is a problem for you or not, but I'll state again - Nurse sucks at passing, especially stretch passing. Nurse is good at skating. When he leads the breakout with his feet, he is much, much more likely to make it to the red line and dump, create an odd man rush, or shorten passing lanes to forwards to actually hit a breakout pass in motion. He has done these things before successfully (19-20 referenced ad nauseam). For whatever reason he no longer leverages this strength anymore, and his game has gone down the gutter as a result.

He's better than this, has played better than this before, and is more than capable of playing better than this again if he gets out of his own way. If he isn't moving his feet he is absolutely useless as a defensemen. I think he has more room to free his feet up if he's with a steady defender that can clean up mistakes if he rushes up ice. I'm sorry that your opinion doesn't align with that.

 

[Arpeggio]

I think the primary difference between Kelfbom and Nurse was that Klefbom continually improved his game with experience and learning. He had some rocky stretches no doubt.

Nurse has flatlined and has even regressed. He's not improving in areas that experience normally improves a player. When I think of Nurse I don't think Wiley veteran. I think of a player that always finds himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. We say nice things like.. he's trying too hard and he needs to simplify his game. The cold hard reality is he has a fundamental issue understanding the chaos that is going on out there.

Honestly I still kind of hold out hope he had some injury and was playing through it and that some day Nurse with f***ing figure out the game of hockey. But this playoffs if something shitty was going to happen via a bounce or whatever.. it was going to be against Nurse. So many times it's not shit luck.. it's shit awareness/anticipation/understanding. Darnell Nurse is the Anti Pronger. Always finds the wrong places to be and has no f***ing clue where the puck is going next.

I keep getting drawn back into this argument lol. Klefbom did not get better every year. His best season was at 23 years old, and then his game (and shoulder) fell apart. He got worse every year for the rest of his career.

Nurse actually has significantly improved his game as he's aged, and last season was a big draw down for him. He's still under 30 years old though, and many good defencemen bounce back from years like Nurse just had.

I guess I just don't understand why fans who afford Klefbom so much grace for his injuries/poor play can't do the same for Nurse, aside from the obvious contract issue. Even when this team was HORRIBLE the first half of the year, Nurse was treading water. He was only -1 through the first month, when the Oilers were getting smoked every game, and was +10 and trending towards another good season before his game (and Ceci's) fell apart in Februrary.

I feel like the simplest explanation is injury, or something stopped working between him and Ceci.

I'm not defending Nurse's playoff performances. I would argue that he was good in the Colorado run, bad against Vegas last season, and below his standards this run (though he was good in the finals). He needs to be better. But he has shown the potential to get there. This all feels like recency bias, combined with fans being upset about his contract. We haven't seen Nurse at his best for like seven months of hockey now, so I get it. But he has it in him to get back to that level.

 

[Johnny McBravo]

Man Jackson's camp in tight-lipped. I guess it is a good thing, but makes for a boring few weeks until a GM is actually hired.

 

[McDoused]

I get the feeling we see a Ceci trade or one of Broberg/Holloway signed this weekend.

 

[guymez]

I keep getting drawn back into this argument lol. Klefbom did not get better every year. His best season was at 23 years old, and then his game (and shoulder) fell apart. He got worse every year for the rest of his career.

Nurse actually has significantly improved his game as he's aged, and last season was a big draw down for him. He's still under 30 years old though, and many good defencemen bounce back from years like Nurse just had.

I guess I just don't understand why fans who afford Klefbom so much grace for his injuries/poor play can't do the same for Nurse, aside from the obvious contract issue. Even when this team was HORRIBLE the first half of the year, Nurse was treading water. He was only -1 through the first month, when the Oilers were getting smoked every game, and was +10 and trending towards another good season before his game (and Ceci's) fell apart in Februrary.

I feel like the simplest explanation is injury, or something stopped working between him and Ceci.

I'm not defending Nurse's playoff performances. I would argue that he was good in the Colorado run, bad against Vegas last season, and below his standards this run (though he was good in the finals). He needs to be better. But he has shown the potential to get there. This all feels like recency bias, combined with fans being upset about his contract. We haven't seen Nurse at his best for like seven months of hockey now, so I get it. But he has it in him to get back to that level.

Well...what is Nurses standard? When you have bad season after bad season its clear the standard isnt very high. Nurse has had good moments but his game always seems to be littered with poor decisions.
He just isnt a reliable dman.
I would also ask how is it that a dman on the verge of being 30 years old has the potential to be better?
Nurse is what he is (an average 2nd pairing dman with warts) and its clear that his cap hit will continue to be one of this teams biggest issues.

 

[Mr Positive]

I get the feeling we see a Ceci trade or one of Broberg/Holloway signed this weekend.

I'm guessing not.

Ceci for us Oiler fans is what Marner is for the Leafs. The fans are out for blood and want a shake up. The media puts out some hope to the fans that things are changing, but in the end they will just stick around with whatever excuse. Maybe the next media move will be just to say it will be a mid season move.

I just don't see the market expanding after the flurry in the first week or so. Teams are mostly set, or would rather take a shot at remaining UFAs

 

[Arpeggio]

Well...what is Nurses standard? When you are bad season after season its clear the standard isnt very high.
I would also ask how is it that a dman on the verge of being 30 years old has the potential to be better?
Nurse is what he is (an average 2nd pairing dman with warts) and its clear that his cap hit will continue to be one of this teams biggest issues.

We just fundamentally disagree on the level Nurse's game was at prior to the second half of this season. To me, this is prime Nurse:

2020-21	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	56	16	20	36	57	27
2021-22	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	71	9	26	35	54	18
2022-23	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	82	12	31	43	64	26

These are all seasons where he played on the Oilers number one pairing, with defensive partners that are arguably not even top four defenceman (depends how you feel about Ceci and Barrie, but Bear and Barrie might not even be in the league next year). In 22-23 those offensive numbers are nearly all even strength too.

I look at these numbers and his advanced stats, and he looks like a clear cut top pairing defenceman on just about any team. You see an average second pairing D. We won't agree on Nurse lol.

And I'm not a Nurse apologist either (at least I don't think I am). His contract sucks. He is prone to making some dumb decisions, and his pairing has been horrible at times in two consecutive playoff runs. He's not good at controlling his skates when the puck is in dangerous areas (particularly in front of the net). But he's been a really good Oiler for a number of years imo.

I'm not saying you or anyone who agrees with you is being irrational, but this conversation reminds me of conversations I have with people about Bouchard. I have multiple older dudes in my circle that just hate Bouchard, regardless of how well he's playing. He could score 100 points and these guys would still trade him for a bag of pucks, because they can't see past his mistakes and perceived laziness. I think Nurse is similarly polarizing.

 

[Mr Kot]

One thing we can also do is, if Savoie proves he's the real deal, he could be a massive trade chip this year.

 

[Mr Positive]

Well...what is Nurses standard? When you have bad season after bad season its clear the standard isnt very high. Nurse has had good moments but his game always seems to be littered with poor decisions.
He just isnt a reliable dman.
I would also ask how is it that a dman on the verge of being 30 years old has the potential to be better?
Nurse is what he is (an average 2nd pairing dman with warts) and its clear that his cap hit will continue to be one of this teams biggest issues.

For the purpose of a discussion forum, imo the Nurse cap hit should not be an issue. We are here as armchair GMs. We talk about what should be done or not done.

With Nurse, there are no options. Whatever move we could make to move him would cost more than it's worth. He's got a NMC. We might as well discuss the James Neal cap hit.

I get it though. He is the obvious overpaid player and it's hard not to pay attention to it. But imo there is productive discussion that pushes the team forward and there is unproductive discussion that hurts the team. I choose to focus on what is productive and put that energy out there.