Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Does Bowman Make His Mark on the Team Before Training Camp?

[joestevens29]

It was ‘the’ hockey mag back in the day when The Bobfather was the editor in chief.

Was there ever really much competition? I remember a handful of other mags that did projections, but don't ever recall seeing them mid-season.

Was kind of like of the Sun or Journal would have a weekly go to rumor column on Sundays I believe. Now in hindsight by the time those rumors were compiled and made it to print they might've been old news lol.

How the times changed, although the Hockey news had a chance to stay relevant.

 

[North]

I think that Jake Bean was the better gamble for them. Hometown kid with a good AHL resume. If they give him the same opportunity, I think he could turn into a decent defenseman.

Sucks that Kylington didn't stick around for them, but the guy's 27, just coming off a year and a half off. You're not gonna see much upside on a team that's likely rebuilding for the next six seasons.

The wild thing is these guys acting like supporting someone through mental health issues (the decent thing to do) somehow now makes that person beholden to them.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Was kind of like of the Sun or Journal would have a weekly go to rumor column on Sundays I believe. Now in hindsight by the time those rumors were compiled and made it to print they might've been old news lol.

Those Edmonton Journal ones were atrocious, because they were all contrived, Jim Matheson dream scenarios.

I remember one where he claimed we were in talks to trade Ranford to the Red Wings for Yzerman, because Fedorov had taken over top spot as 1C and made more money than Yzerman, and Ranford had a Conn Smythe trophy and that’s what the Red Wings would need “to get over the hump and win a championship.”

Not a moment of reality mixed in to his crap.

 

[bellagiobob]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820948143787405467

 

[Bryanbryoil]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820948143787405467

Glad that we don't have Woodcroft here to butcher yet another pre-season.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Glad that we don't have Woodcroft here to butcher yet another pre-season.

How would you handle Matt Savoie in the preseason? Does he get AHL players for linemates or all-stars. Maybe something in the middle.

You know the first time Savoie makes a skilled play that results in a goal the fan base will go cuckoo bananas and insist he has a spot on the opening day roster.

If he doesn't start the season with the big squad it will be, biased against young players dinosaur mentality, playing Perry over Savoie is a joke and typical Oilers even though the top 9 is stacked with skill already.

The best road for development to maximise his potential is for Savoie learning a solid two-way game in Bakersfield as a center. He needs the knowledge gained from experience at a lower level of professional hockey first before he enters the big league. He needs to be taught game structure and puck management.

Maybe he gets sent down with Derek Ryan who could act as a mentor. Ryan has a high hockey IQ and survived 570 NHL regular season games and another 60 in the playoffs as an undersized player well into his 30s. If Savoie receives that tutelage he might be a breakthrough player when he does reach the NHL.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

How would you handle Matt Savoie in the preseason? Does he get AHL players for linemates or all-stars. Maybe something in the middle.

You know the first time Savoie makes a skilled play that results in a goal the fan base will go cuckoo bananas and insist he has a spot on the opening day roster.

If he doesn't start the season with the big squad it will be, biased against young players dinosaur mentality, playing Perry over Savoie is a joke and typical Oilers even though the top 9 is stacked with skill already.

The best road for development to maximise his potential is for Savoie learning a solid two-way game in Bakersfield as a center. He needs the knowledge gained from experience at a lower level of professional hockey first before he enters the big league. He needs to be taught game structure and puck management.

Maybe he gets sent down with Derek Ryan who could act as a mentor. Ryan has a high hockey IQ and survived 570 NHL regular season games and another 60 in the playoffs as an undersized player well into his 30s. If Savoie receives that tutelage he might be a breakthrough player when he does reach the NHL.

I'd give him AHL linemates in game 1, see if he stands out. Give him NHL bottom 6 linemates in game 2 if he showed well in game 1. If he shows well in both then I give him 3rd line NHL linemates in game 3 and go from there. The real test is in game 6-8 of the preseason because that's when you play mostly NHL lineups.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Glad that we don't have Woodcroft here to butcher yet another pre-season.

8 games is 4 games too many. Shave 4 games off and add 2 games to the regular season. Charge me the same for my tickets and I’m happy. Paying full pop for 4 meaningless games - 10% of the tickets basically - is a rip off.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

How would you handle Matt Savoie in the preseason? Does he get AHL players for linemates or all-stars. Maybe something in the middle.

You know the first time Savoie makes a skilled play that results in a goal the fan base will go cuckoo bananas and insist he has a spot on the opening day roster.

If he doesn't start the season with the big squad it will be, biased against young players dinosaur mentality, playing Perry over Savoie is a joke and typical Oilers even though the top 9 is stacked with skill already.

The best road for development to maximise his potential is for Savoie learning a solid two-way game in Bakersfield as a center. He needs the knowledge gained from experience at a lower level of professional hockey first before he enters the big league. He needs to be taught game structure and puck management.

Maybe he gets sent down with Derek Ryan who could act as a mentor. Ryan has a high hockey IQ and survived 570 NHL regular season games and another 60 in the playoffs as an undersized player well into his 30s. If Savoie receives that tutelage he might be a breakthrough player when he does reach the NHL.

Unlike previous years the Oil aren't dying for extra skill beyond their big 5. Even if McDavid, Drai, RNH, and Hyman only play like 3 preseason games, I'd expect Arvidsson and Skinner to be featured a ton as the main drivers while they try and build chemistry with the team.

Plus the memories of Perlini and Holloway's hot preseasons would / should temper expectations for Savoie. It also helps that there's a very obvious path for him, as he's going to be the ELC that replaces Skinner or Arvidsson next year or the one thereafter.


The only fight upfront I see in TC is which league min forward will earn the right to eat popcorn as the PB spare and occasionally sub out Perry or Ryan: Lavoie, Pederson, Hamblin, or Cags.

 

[ottawah]

How would you handle Matt Savoie in the preseason? Does he get AHL players for linemates or all-stars. Maybe something in the middle.

Buffalo would not have traded him if they considered him on the cusp of making the NHL roster of the 4th best offensive team in the league, especially as he likely needs to be played in the top 6 to be effective.

In all likelihood he'll need a few years seasoning in the AHL. Maybe he will surprise me, and I always hope so, but let him work on his game for a while.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Buffalo would not have traded him if they considered him on the cusp of making the NHL roster of the 4th best offensive team in the league, especially as he likely needs to be played in the top 6 to be effective.

In all likelihood he'll need a few years seasoning in the AHL. Maybe he will surprise me, and I always hope so, but let him work on his game for a while.

Yeah, zero chance a team like Buffalo could make a bad trade

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Buffalo would not have traded him if they considered him on the cusp of making the NHL roster of the 4th best offensive team in the league, especially as he likely needs to be played in the top 6 to be effective.

In all likelihood he'll need a few years seasoning in the AHL. Maybe he will surprise me, and I always hope so, but let him work on his game for a while.

Could be or they made a hasty and desperate DoD type of move.

 

[joestevens29]

Could be or they made a hasty and desperate DoD type of move.

It's not to the same level, but it reminds me of Hall for Larsson. We were desperate for a defenseman and PC didn't care at what cost.

Buffalo seems to be desperate for a 3C and trying to force anything they can at this point.

 

[Oilslick941611]

How would you handle Matt Savoie in the preseason? Does he get AHL players for linemates or all-stars. Maybe something in the middle.

You know the first time Savoie makes a skilled play that results in a goal the fan base will go cuckoo bananas and insist he has a spot on the opening day roster.

If he doesn't start the season with the big squad it will be, biased against young players dinosaur mentality, playing Perry over Savoie is a joke and typical Oilers even though the top 9 is stacked with skill already.

The best road for development to maximise his potential is for Savoie learning a solid two-way game in Bakersfield as a center. He needs the knowledge gained from experience at a lower level of professional hockey first before he enters the big league. He needs to be taught game structure and puck management.

Maybe he gets sent down with Derek Ryan who could act as a mentor. Ryan has a high hockey IQ and survived 570 NHL regular season games and another 60 in the playoffs as an undersized player well into his 30s. If Savoie receives that tutelage he might be a breakthrough player when he does reach the NHL.

There no room in the top 6 for Savoie this season unless/until an injury happens.

So ideally you would pair Savoie with bottom six players in a game to see how he plays and give him a game with the top six as well, but if Savoie is breaking in this year its going to be a bottom six spot.

 

[McDoused]

It's not to the same level, but it reminds me of Hall for Larsson. We were desperate for a defenseman and PC didn't care at what cost.

Buffalo seems to be desperate for a 3C and trying to force anything they can at this point.

The crazy thing is, I dont even think Ryan McLeod is that great of a 3C.

There no room in the top 6 for Savoie this season unless/until an injury happens.

So ideally you would pair Savoie with bottom six players in a game to see how he plays and give him a game with the top six as well, but if Savoie is breaking in this year its going to be a bottom six spot.

I think we're lucky this year as we won't really have a top 6 vs bottom 6, rather I think we will have a top 9 and be able to role 4 lines.

Like if your 3rd line is Kane-RNH-Savoie that's not your typical bottom 6 line. Even a Janmark-Henrique-Brown line would be good enough to ice against other teams top lines.

 

[Fourier]

There no room in the top 6 for Savoie this season unless/until an injury happens.

So ideally you would pair Savoie with bottom six players in a game to see how he plays and give him a game with the top six as well, but if Savoie is breaking in this year its going to be a bottom six spot.

There probably is no room in the top six but if he really did show enough there are lots of ways to make it work because of how flexible the Oilers line-up is. You could do something like:

Nuge/Skinner McDavid Hyman
Skinner/Nuge Draisaitl Arvidsson/Savoie
Kane Henrique Savoie/Arvidsson
Janmark Holloway Brown

Both scenarios would be fairly friendly for a skilled guy with some jam in his game. It's a big luxury for a young guy not to have carry much weight on a line but instead concentrate on using his skills to his best advantage.

The forward group would be the best that the Oilers have put together since Gretzky left.

 

[Slats432]

The wild thing is these guys acting like supporting someone through mental health issues (the decent thing to do) somehow now makes that person beholden to them.

I totally see your point. But as someone who has employees, in a lot of cases, you would think by standing by the employee through their challenges would make them want to stay with you.

 

[GOilers88]

I have hope for Savoie but he's nowhere near my opening day thoughts. He'd have to absolutely blow the doors off of camp and outplay both Arvidsson and Skinner quite handily.

He could, but if he doesn't it shouldn't mean anything.

 

[joestevens29]

The crazy thing is, I dont even think Ryan McLeod is that great of a 3C.



I think we're lucky this year as we won't really have a top 6 vs bottom 6, rather I think we will have a top 9 and be able to role 4 lines.

Like if your 3rd line is Kane-RNH-Savoie that's not your typical bottom 6 line. Even a Janmark-Henrique-Brown line would be good enough to ice against other teams top lines.

He isn't, but like Larsson Buffalo hopes they can get more out of McLeod then the previous team did.

 

[K1984]

It's not to the same level, but it reminds me of Hall for Larsson. We were desperate for a defenseman and PC didn't care at what cost.

Buffalo seems to be desperate for a 3C and trying to force anything they can at this point.

That's exactly what this was. Also comparable to 1st + 2nd for Reinhart.

The bad logic of "we can't wait forever for these prospects to contribute, we need to improve and get the sure thing now." I used to think this was the way to go in Edmonton too when we were floundering, but it just doesn't work.

All that's going to happen is 12-18 months from now McLeod will either stink (fail for them) or play well and demand a bigger contract that he may or may not live up to (also a fail). Short of McLeod all of a sudden finding a purpose and consistency to his game that he hasn't shown any of before, I don't see how he doesn't fall into one of the two boxes above. I've said it before, but he just screams the player that scores 20 this year off the back of some timely streaks (think Foegele this year), commands a pay day between $3-4M AAV (or more) with some term, then flops right after creating a problem.

I don't know if there is a more dangerous player to acquire with legitimate assets going the other way than the mid-20's player that has promise, but consistency issues AND has arb rights. 9 times out of 10 those guys either flop, or get paid way more than they should without a lot in between.

 

[bellagiobob]

I totally see your point. But as someone who has employees, in a lot of cases, you would think by standing by the employee through their challenges would make them want to stay with you.

Sometimes a change of scenery is best in situations like this. Not saying try to outrun your problems, but perhaps having less baggage to carry around helps with a fresh start in a new location.

 

[The Nuge]

It's not to the same level, but it reminds me of Hall for Larsson. We were desperate for a defenseman and PC didn't care at what cost.

Buffalo seems to be desperate for a 3C and trying to force anything they can at this point.

Very similar. It’s a team who doesn’t need to move a player making them available only if the ridiculous asking price is met

There no room in the top 6 for Savoie this season unless/until an injury happens.

So ideally you would pair Savoie with bottom six players in a game to see how he plays and give him a game with the top six as well, but if Savoie is breaking in this year its going to be a bottom six spot.

He doesn’t need to be in the top 6 though. We have 8 guys who are arguably second liners or better. You could throw out a line of say Kane - Henrique - Savoie as the third line

The crazy thing is, I dont even think Ryan McLeod is that great of a 3C.

He’s not. He’s a good 4C or 3LW. We wouldn’t have traded for Henrique if McLeod was a great 3C.

He isn't, but like Larsson Buffalo hopes they can get more out of McLeod than the previous team did.

With how off the scouting report Buffalo fans seem to be using is, I can’t help but wonder if the Sabres management even knows exactly what he is. Buffalo fans keep calling him a big, physical, shutdown center… which he just isn’t. It feels like they had a pro scout sell McLeod as a certain player and nobody paid enough attention to him to realize that wasn’t what they were getting. Kind of like when the Leafs tried to sign Kurt Sauer but accidentally signed Jeff Finger. Or maybe they scouted his brother (who throws triple the hits) and assumed they play similar?

If he was a big, physical, shutdown center on top of being an elite skating ~30 point guy who’s good at transitional defense and PKing, the price makes a lot more sense.

 

[joestevens29]

That's exactly what this was. Also comparable to 1st + 2nd for Reinhart.

The bad logic of "we can't wait forever for these prospects to contribute, we need to improve and get the sure thing now." I used to think this was the way to go in Edmonton too when we were floundering, but it just doesn't work.

All that's going to happen is 12-18 months from now McLeod will either stink (fail for them) or play well and demand a bigger contract that he may or may not live up to (also a fail). Short of McLeod all of a sudden finding a purpose and consistency to his game that he hasn't shown any of before, I don't see how he doesn't fall into one of the two boxes above. I've said it before, but he just screams the player that scores 20 this year off the back of some timely streaks (think Foegele this year), commands a pay day between $3-4M AAV (or more) with some term, then flops right after creating a problem.

I don't know if there is a more dangerous player to acquire with legitimate assets going the other way than the mid-20's player that has promise, but consistency issues AND has arb rights. 9 times out of 10 those guys either flop, or get paid way more than they should without a lot in between.

I'm curious what this market correction does with increasing cap. Because ya he could very well be one of those guys that you wonder why you are paying him so much in 2-3 years

 

[Slats432]

Sometimes a change of scenery is best in situations like this. Not saying try to outrun your problems, but perhaps having less baggage to carry around helps with a fresh start in a new location.

I don't have any ill will to someone who wanted a change of scenery for whatever reason. I just don't think it is crazy to think that good will should be reciprocated.

 

[joestevens29]

Sometimes a change of scenery is best in situations like this. Not saying try to outrun your problems, but perhaps having less baggage to carry around helps with a fresh start in a new location.

Helped a guy like Larsson and Kassian, so could very well be the guy needs a fresh start.

Very similar. It’s a team who doesn’t need to move a player making them available only if the ridiculous asking price is met



He doesn’t need to be in the top 6 though. We have 8 guys who are arguably second liners or better. You could throw out a line of say Kane - Henrique - Savoie as the third line



He’s not. He’s a good 4C or 3LW. We wouldn’t have traded for Henrique if McLeod was a great 3C.



With how off the scouting report Buffalo fans seem to be using is, I can’t help but wonder if the Sabres management even knows exactly what he is. Buffalo fans keep calling him a big, physical, shutdown center… which he just isn’t. It feels like they had a pro scout sell McLeod as a certain player and nobody paid enough attention to him to realize that wasn’t what they were getting. Kind of like when the Leafs tried to sign Kurt Sauer but accidentally signed Jeff Finger.

If he was a big, physical, shutdown center on top of being an elite skating ~30 point guy who’s good at transitional defense and PKing, the price makes a lot more sense.

You ever listen to Buffalo media? There is a lot of delusion out there. I won't forget Eichel's 3rd season I believe how the media guy on Gregor's show was talking about how that team was poised to make the playoffs. Healthy Eichel with a pile of young talent that already had their feet wet and ready to make a jump.

I don't think I ever heard Gregor cut an interview that short.

He's never had that guy back on, but the guys he's had since aren't exactly much better. Not sure if anyone between the media and management knows what is going on. Just find ways to spin everything positive without looking at history.

It's not that McLeod is a bad player, but if he was what Buffalo fans think why the hell would the Oilers who have been looking for a 3rd line center themselves just dump him. We would've kept him and not re-signed Henrique if he's what Buffalo fans keep saying he is.