Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Dermott on a PTO, Will We See More PTO's? Can We Get Some Toughness Too Please?

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

 

[McBooya42]

Hi, I'm bobby no brain.

I don't know the difference between RFA and UFA.

Darnell is also black. Meaning he gets less rope than others.

That is all.

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!

 

[brentashton]

I'm surprised it took this long for the NHL to finally head to Houston, but going back to Atlanta feels like a mistake.

Hopefully the new expansion format will pull it through this time, but if they're due for another franchise flop it'll probably be Atlanta(yet again). Hopefully they properly vet the owner this time at the very least.

Maple Leafs don't want competition in their market and would block any new teams in the greater Toronto areas to the best of their abilities, and Quebec city is a tiny market with all the problems of Montreal magnified(Taxes, location, currency, language etc) with few of the upsides. Ottawa/Winnipeg are already reportedly losing money, and both are bigger markets than what QC has to offer.

So no, hockey doesn't make more sense in those locations.

I wonder with the Rogers buy out of Bell, if Bell is angling for an expansion team in the GTA, with Rogers blessing. Keith Pelley has his finger prints on this. Something is happening.

 

[Duke74]

Jasper Weatherby, if the coolest guy at the old age home were made into a name.

Isn't that the principal in the Archie comics?

 

[brentashton]

Every franchise needs a Bob Nicholson type figurehead.

Oh wait, maybe they don’t…

 

[Duke74]

I mean why not. Hockey has already failed there twice- what can go wrong?

Another sunbelt team for Gary to fawn over.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

For a Stanley Cup contending team with cap constraints and other needs to address, no more than about $2.5M for the package of 2 would have been the budget, which was apparently untenable. Going over that amount, or keying in on them early in the process, would have limited our ability to make actual real, material upgrades to the roster. I'll make the bet on Skinner, Arvidsson and Henrique and their ability to positively impact a contending roster over Broberg and Holloway maybe, possibly 1) staying healthy and 2) actually performing at a level where they would be real championship level contributors. What's being missed here is that if these two get signed for anything above the rough $2.5M market value and then come in here and underperform that it would severely damage the Oiler's ability to win a Cup. I'm not making that bet on those two on the basis of 4/5 nice playoff games from Holloway and Broberg having a handful of good games against the Stars.

Could a moderate improvement in value been possible via trade? Possibly, maybe, but I don't think it's unreasonable to state that any trade return wouldn't have been of much higher value than we got anyways.

If that was their fixed ceiling then even more reason to be active in exploring all contingencies including trade options with two players that don't appear to fit into the winning window deployment or budget. Pursue a McLeod model trade that shaves active roster salary for quality prospect return that guides flexibility in pursuit of winning a championship - either developed into future cheap salary (as Broberg and Holloway were expected to be) or quality trade assets to flip into roster upgrades.

We don't know whether a moderate or substantive prospect return. You supposition marginal and I suggest there is a viable benchmark with a top six scoring winger with retention, Bushnevich, as qualified trade discussion this past trade deadline. The McLeod trade surprised most with the quality of return. Sure, a more proven NHL player, but neither of us know what an NHL ready age 23 big mobile d-man (a hard to get asset) would garner to a team with need, cap, and prospect pool to deal from.

It's a deeply experienced management group with a super agent experienced with leveraging the CBA and a GM hired who himself faced the reality of an offer sheet. I'd expect those hard decisions and pro-active work to seek clarity on a disgruntled player who had put forward a trade request.

I don't view it as a deviation to the win now strategy to prioritize signing veterans to win now. However I think in managing the sustaining window consideration there was ample time from the season, its end, through start of free agency to actively determine if the two restricted free agents would fit financially and if the players themselves believed there was a future in Edmonton.

We're ultimately at a crossroads to disagree on the passive strategy taken and to speculate on alot of considerations like quality or not on trade returns. I think everyone agrees the die was cast after August 13 when the market filled the void on the Oilers chosen approach.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

In retrospect though I think they pretty much did that. The initial offers were quite consistent with what their top offers were probably going to be and I think should have been. The inflation and movement of young players has not played out at all outside of a small number of top end kids. In fact, as I suspected others have been squeezed even tighter as every other team pretty much palyed it as in the past.

If that was a firm final offer then even more they should have at least explored the trade market. The working premise holds they were dealing with a player with an in-season trade request. They had what sounds like deep trade deadline discussions with St. Louis as one team, it would make sense to reach out and have dialogue to gage interest and actively pursue a fallback situation with your shallow prospect systems two NHL ready players.

Give yourself flexibility to shop for viable, quality prospects to help replenish a threadbare pool while shaving cap on the current roster pushed to its threshold. All options and considerations on the table to actively manage your vulnerable position with two young players. The Oilers did that with McLeod and GM Trotz spoke opening about talking with his counterparts through the summer to touch base on players. He pivoted quickly when Askarov opted to go public with his own trade request. Manage all contingencies or risk the market imposing itself.

 

[brentashton]

Looking purely at cap hit, Nurse > Seider. Will they do a one for one trade?

My reasoning being bigger cap hit = bigger talent right??

@ZJuice , Seider is the future for DRW. In what universe and why, would they consider this?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'm surprised it took this long for the NHL to finally head to Houston, but going back to Atlanta feels like a mistake.

Hopefully the new expansion format will pull it through this time, but if they're due for another franchise flop it'll probably be Atlanta(yet again). Hopefully they properly vet the owner this time at the very least.

Maple Leafs don't want competition in their market and would block any new teams in the greater Toronto areas to the best of their abilities, and Quebec city is a tiny market with all the problems of Montreal magnified(Taxes, location, currency, language etc) with few of the upsides. Ottawa/Winnipeg are already reportedly losing money, and both are bigger markets than what QC has to offer.

So no, hockey doesn't make more sense in those locations.

Agree with your post. The big money is in National Revenue (broadcast, sponsorship) and this is the biggest difference in revenue generation between the NHL and three other major professional sports. It's why Bettman stuck to his guns (reputation and otherwise) to keep the NHL in the huge Phoenix market for so long.

The Greater Toronto Area could support a second team but there wouldn't be any growth to build up their priority to increase the league's National Revenue pipeline where the big financial gains exist. I'd love another Canadian team as this league continues to evolve away from the loyal core support it has in our country. But this isn't about the game, it's the pursuit of profit maximization wrapped successfully around an enviable, rare, deep emotional bond with its customers.

Houston seems like a no-brainer. Atlanta with two strikes shouldn't be a consideration but geographically and market size wise it's back again at the front of the line. A revenue breakdown of major North American professional leagues here:

How Sports Teams, Leagues and Owners Make Money

Want to know how sports teams and leagues make money? Here are the revenue streams used to drive profitability in the competitive sporting industry.

www.sportico.com

 

[ZJuice]

@ZJuice , Seider is the future for DRW. In what universe and why, would they consider this?

They wouldn't.. I'm just lonely

 

[brentashton]

They wouldn't.. I'm just lonely

Swipe left…

 

[Tobias Kahun]

If that was a firm final offer then even more they should have at least explored the trade market. The working premise holds they were dealing with a player with an in-season trade request. They had what sounds like deep trade deadline discussions with St. Louis as one team, it would make sense to reach out and have dialogue to gage interest and actively pursue a fallback situation with your shallow prospect systems two NHL ready players.

Give yourself flexibility to shop for viable, quality prospects to help replenish a threadbare pool while shaving cap on the current roster pushed to its threshold. All options and considerations on the table to actively manage your vulnerable position with two young players. The Oilers did that with McLeod and GM Trotz spoke opening about talking with his counterparts through the summer to touch base on players. He pivoted quickly when Askarov opted to go public with his own trade request. Manage all contingencies or risk the market imposing itself.

And how are you so sure they didn’t explore the trade market?

Maybe they realized the risk vs reward and tried to keep them and squeeze them like every other team does.

You also think Dallas kept cap space for Harley, they kept enough for what he was worth, the oilers kept enough for what Holloway and broberg would be worth.

If a team gave Harley a contract for 2-3x his worth, Dallas would’ve either had to drop lots of salary or not match.

And then we’ve seen teams like Toronto squeeze a RFA that is better than Holloway for 900k.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

And how are you so sure they didn’t explore the trade market?

Maybe they realized the risk vs reward and tried to keep them and squeeze them like every other team does.

You also think Dallas kept cap space for Harley, they kept enough for what he was worth, the oilers kept enough for what Holloway and broberg would be worth.

If a team gave Harley a contract for 2-3x his worth, Dallas would’ve either had to drop lots of salary or not match.

And then we’ve seen teams like Toronto squeeze a RFA that is better than Holloway for 900k.

There's no indication they explored the trade market. Not uncommon that information often leaks out. Seems fairly clear process they followed 'the way things were done' and tried to smoke out their quality young RFA's. But as you write, I'd like to believe there was a pro-active approach to explore all contingencies with a known flight risk. Would love to see or hear evidence they did.

Dallas situation was entirely different dealing with a productive relationship with a clear role on a deep playoff team and quite likely active discussions to find the sweet spot in consideration of term duration and price point. A key player it's easy to believe there was a roadmap discussed through negotiations as to a variety of short, mid-term and maybe long-term contract options. Having a $6 million cap safety value is still a formidable tool to help keep flies off. Unlike straddling the cap upper threshold.

Robertson is a mid-roster player at the most plentiful supply as stated numerous times. There's little need or reason to offer sheet when cheap and plentiful options exist. Unfortunately he didn't have a high cache pedigree positional running mate as an RFA. No leverage with bountiful options available for a small, niche offensive winger. The prize and high risk was always Broberg. Holloway's own perceived situation with the cheese just created the firm handcuffs that made the Oilers double indemnity situation higher risk. It's not like it wasn't a surprise: Fuelling offer sheet speculation: 9 RFAs worth watching

I'm retreading old ground and repeating myself with multiple people.

 

[On The Prowl]

Darnell Nurse really isnt as bad as many of you make him out to be, but that's just my opinion.

 

[LTIR]

There isn’t enough laugh emojis in the world

Case rested..

 

[foshizzle]

Darnell Nurse really isnt as bad as many of you make him out to be, but that's just my opinion.

His metrics say otherwise

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

….I'm retreading old ground and repeating myself with multiple people.

This is going on my tombstone.

 

[McJesusSaves97]

Darnell Nurse really isnt as bad as many of you make him out to be, but that's just my opinion.

I agree, he's worse. Can't make a pass, zero awareness & shrinks when the games really matter. I'm not interested in pretending hes good because he plays for my team. But that's just my opinion...

 

[Oilslick941611]

There's no indication they explored the trade market. Not uncommon that information often leaks out. Seems fairly clear process they followed 'the way things were done' and tried to smoke out their quality young RFA's. But as you write, I'd like to believe there was a pro-active approach to explore all contingencies with a known flight risk. Would love to see or hear evidence they did.

Dallas situation was entirely different dealing with a productive relationship with a clear role on a deep playoff team and quite likely active discussions to find the sweet spot in consideration of term duration and price point. A key player it's easy to believe there was a roadmap discussed through negotiations as to a variety of short, mid-term and maybe long-term contract options. Having a $6 million cap safety value is still a formidable tool to help keep flies off. Unlike straddling the cap upper threshold.

Robertson is a mid-roster player at the most plentiful supply as stated numerous times. There's little need or reason to offer sheet when cheap and plentiful options exist. Unfortunately he didn't have a high cache pedigree positional running mate as an RFA. No leverage with bountiful options available for a small, niche offensive winger. The prize and high risk was always Broberg. Holloway's own perceived situation with the cheese just created the firm handcuffs that made the Oilers double indemnity situation higher risk. It's not like it wasn't a surprise: Fuelling offer sheet speculation: 9 RFAs worth watching

I'm retreading old ground and repeating myself with multiple people.

I mean you do know everything.

Can I ask you a question? Are you not tired about crying over the offer sheets? I see block of text after block of text from you over it. Like seriously. we get it. Move on.

 

[Soundwave]

Also seeing both Skinner and Arvidsson with Draisaitl on day 1 of camp makes me think of a feeling I had right on July 1 ... that Leon told Jeff Jackson in no uncertain terms that the Oilers needed to find him some real top 6 wingers or else at the exit meetings to end the season.

Not 1, but 2.

Think he had about enough of playing with crap on his wings and probably was extremely frustrated by not being able to contribute in the Finals because his shot was crippled due to injury. If he had some wingers to pass to he could've generated a few goals for the team via passing at least.