Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Dermott on a PTO, Will We See More PTO's? Can We Get Some Toughness Too Please?

[WaitingForUser]

Do not disagree it was a joke but the North was far from the worst division that year. All divisions played the same team up to 10 times so I don’t understand why the North gets singled out for that. SJ ANH LA we’re just as terrible as Van Mtl and OTT if not worse.

Take a look for yourself

 

[MoontoScott]

Sounds today like hockey is coming back to Atlanta. Some more competition for those free agents.

 

[Mcnofool6110]

Oilers sign Jasper Weatherby to a PTO. Who...?

 

[The Nuge]

Sounds today like hockey is coming back to Atlanta. Some more competition for those free agents.

Something about fool me once… it’s such a stupid idea to go back to a market that’s already badly failed twice

 

[K1984]

Something about fool me once… it’s such a stupid idea to go back to a market that’s already badly failed twice

The NHL must know something we don't.

The narrative from Atlanta hockey fans is it was all the owner's fault, which might be possible? I just have a hard time whenever I hear the misfortune of a sunbelt franchise that never really got off the mat at any point blame all issues on the owner. It's definitely possible he had a role, but not sure how we can possibly know that when there isn't any period of stability or success to compare it to in the market.

If the fans there were so great and the owner ruined it all, there should theoretically be a point in time that they had the stands full before people became jaded and all the goodwill was blown. But there just isn't.

On paper Houston is a significantly better market by some margin. They have a hockey history there too.

 

[onetweasy]

Bouchard and Dobson were negotiating in a flat cap window. Bouchard is also in optimal conditions to fully leverage his value on one of the highest scoring teams in the league. Discussion is now allegedly beginning with the outlier Dahlin $11 million AAV deal so not a surprise to anyone Bouchard opted to stay within a positive, clear situation where he is lead dog top pair D and PP driver on one producing historic results. Dobson too is optimally placed on a team that's developed him well with clear progressive game. I imagine we might agree all of these negotiations are an ongoing, active process that just doesn't land on a number and signed. The discussion likely ranges about short, medium, long-term commitment options with variable financial amounts. The underlaying message is 'we value you' and we have a roadmap for deployment and financially within our team structure.

The common factor is a clear, defined progressive role within their drafted team. Comfortable with their handling, the team's financial investment now (and quite likely through tabled offers with variable years and financial term). Unfortunately, none of that reflects Broberg and if Holloway and agent are to believed they also expressed doubts about opportunity and future on a stacked veteran team chasing a Cup.

Overwhelmingly, players that are developed well and see a clear growth path and feel there is good faith negotiation including short, medium, long-term tabled offers, there is strong consideration to sign. Unfortunately that's not the Broberg reality.

It's not about scrambling after the fact to shoehorn an unaffordable Broberg or Holloway into a tenuous cap situation. Rather a viable path to control the outcome by early, assertive negotiation and exploring trade options if there is no way to reconcile player value within the Cap budget this year and years beyond. They already had a sense of market value with St. Louis and strong interest in both players. A natural starting place for two development phase players coming off solid performance deep in the playoffs.

So it sounds like you would have traded Bouchard 3 seasons ago……

 

[foshizzle]

Sounds today like hockey is coming back to Atlanta. Some more competition for those free agents.

I mean why not. Hockey has already failed there twice- what can go wrong?

 

[K1984]

It's not about scrambling after the fact to shoehorn an unaffordable Broberg or Holloway into a tenuous cap situation. Rather a viable path to control the outcome by early, assertive negotiation and exploring trade options if there is no way to reconcile player value within the Cap budget this year and years beyond. They already had a sense of market value with St. Louis and strong interest in both players. A natural starting place for two development phase players coming off solid performance deep in the playoffs.

If anything I'm happy they didn't do this.

It would make absolutely no sense to prioritize overpaying two difficult and mediocre players over shoring up critical needs in the Top 6 on July 1. We needed help on the wings in the Top 6 and we addressed that in spades. Would have been a shame if those opportunities were missed because we were trying to figure out how to overpay or trade two guys that weren't even considered true NHL players as late as mid-April in one case, and the start of June in another.

 

[foshizzle]

Something about fool me once… it’s such a stupid idea to go back to a market that’s already badly failed twice

I dont get it. Makes zero sense. Hockey would make more money in Hamilton or Quebec. I hate Bettman so much

 

[Frank the Tank]

I dont get it. Makes zero sense. Hockey would make more money in Hamilton or Quebec. I hate Bettman so much

Owning a major professional sports team has become a prize collected by billionaires. There's only so many spots in the club and individuals that want to join the club will pay in excess of a half a billion to join it. This in turn improves franchise values and the net worth of everyone in the club.

Bettman's primary job is to maximize the money obtained from broadcast deals to further grow the net worth of the owners. The more major American markets that have a NHL team increases his negotiating position with TV and streaming providers.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

So it sounds like you would have traded Bouchard 3 seasons ago……

Strange assertion. I've been a pretty solid champion of Bouchard through the natural ups and downs of defensemen at the NHL level. The position is arguably the hardest transition to make with variable development blips for players not named Orr or Makar.

There was a lot of reactive panic with Bouchard learning moments. They weren't from me.

Care to drop another unfounded label?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If anything I'm happy they didn't do this.

It would make absolutely no sense to prioritize overpaying two difficult and mediocre players over shoring up critical needs in the Top 6 on July 1. We needed help on the wings in the Top 6 and we addressed that in spades. Would have been a shame if those opportunities were missed because we were trying to figure out how to overpay or trade two guys that weren't even considered true NHL players as late as mid-April in one case, and the start of June in another.

Who said anything about overpaying. I've stated repeatedly to negotiate to the team's budget threshold for the player(s) based on projections short-term and mid-term. It's about pro-actively setting and negotiating within your financial threshold for two quality home grown young support players. If you can't find a favourable negotiation point then it's an easy move on to explore the trade market. Control the situation and work within your budget and personnel plan. Adapt accordingly less the free market force an unfavourable result upon you.

 

[Tarus]

I'm surprised it took this long for the NHL to finally head to Houston, but going back to Atlanta feels like a mistake.

Hopefully the new expansion format will pull it through this time, but if they're due for another franchise flop it'll probably be Atlanta(yet again). Hopefully they properly vet the owner this time at the very least.

I dont get it. Makes zero sense. Hockey would make more money in Hamilton or Quebec. I hate Bettman so much

Maple Leafs don't want competition in their market and would block any new teams in the greater Toronto areas to the best of their abilities, and Quebec city is a tiny market with all the problems of Montreal magnified(Taxes, location, currency, language etc) with few of the upsides. Ottawa/Winnipeg are already reportedly losing money, and both are bigger markets than what QC has to offer.

So no, hockey doesn't make more sense in those locations.

 

[Fourier]

Owning a major professional sports team has become a prize collected by billionaires. There's only so many spots in the club and individuals that want to join the club will pay in excess of a half a billion to join it. This in turn improves franchise values and the net worth of everyone in the club.

Bettman's primary job is to maximize the money obtained from broadcast deals to further grow the net worth of the owners. The more major American markets that have a NHL team increases his negotiating position with TV and streaming providers.

My guess is that the expansion fee will be $1.2B+. The one issue that may really be sticky here is that the players will probably want a cut in the next CBA. We will see if that is enough to kill the negotiations.

 

[Stud Muffin]

My guess is that the expansion fee will be $1.2B+. The one issue that may really be sticky here is that the players will probably want a cut in the next CBA. We will see if that is enough to kill the negotiations.

They do get a cut in a way. HRR is shared 50-50 and that means the cap goes up in conjecture with that.

 

[Fourier]

They do get a cut in a way. HRR is shared 50-50 and that means the cap goes up in conjecture with that.

Expansion money does not count in HRR. That is the issue the players want addressed.

 

[FlameChampion]

Wheres the news coming in regards to the expansion people are talking about?

Nevermind. I see it on the main boards.

 

[K1984]

Who said anything about overpaying. I've stated repeatedly to negotiate to the team's budget threshold for the player(s) based on projections short-term and mid-term. It's about pro-actively setting and negotiating within your financial threshold for two quality home grown young support players. If you can't find a favourable negotiation point then it's an easy move on to explore the trade market. Control the situation and work within your budget and personnel plan. Adapt accordingly less the free market force an unfavourable result upon you.

For a Stanley Cup contending team with cap constraints and other needs to address, no more than about $2.5M for the package of 2 would have been the budget, which was apparently untenable. Going over that amount, or keying in on them early in the process, would have limited our ability to make actual real, material upgrades to the roster. I'll make the bet on Skinner, Arvidsson and Henrique and their ability to positively impact a contending roster over Broberg and Holloway maybe, possibly 1) staying healthy and 2) actually performing at a level where they would be real championship level contributors. What's being missed here is that if these two get signed for anything above the rough $2.5M market value and then come in here and underperform that it would severely damage the Oiler's ability to win a Cup. I'm not making that bet on those two on the basis of 4/5 nice playoff games from Holloway and Broberg having a handful of good games against the Stars.

Could a moderate improvement in value been possible via trade? Possibly, maybe, but I don't think it's unreasonable to state that any trade return wouldn't have been of much higher value than we got anyways.

 

[ZJuice]

Looking purely at cap hit, Nurse > Seider. Will they do a one for one trade?

My reasoning being bigger cap hit = bigger talent right??

 

[McBooya42]

Looking purely at cap hit, Nurse > Seider. Will they do a one for one trade?

My reasoning being bigger cap hit = bigger talent right??

Nurse is not being traded. His contract is locked tight and under his complete control

 

[Fourier]

Who said anything about overpaying. I've stated repeatedly to negotiate to the team's budget threshold for the player(s) based on projections short-term and mid-term. It's about pro-actively setting and negotiating within your financial threshold for two quality home grown young support players. If you can't find a favourable negotiation point then it's an easy move on to explore the trade market. Control the situation and work within your budget and personnel plan. Adapt accordingly less the free market force an unfavourable result upon you.

In retrospect though I think they pretty much did that. The initial offers were quite consistent with what their top offers were probably going to be and I think should have been. The inflation and movement of young players has not played out at all outside of a small number of top end kids. In fact, as I suspected others have been squeezed even tighter as every other team pretty much palyed it as in the past.

 

[MoontoScott]

Something about fool me once… it’s such a stupid idea to go back to a market that’s already badly failed twice

Gary Bettman's legacy is expansion. He is consumed by it and I am sure that this is the driving force behind yet another attempt to put a team in Atlanta and introduce one in Houston.

Jackson Mississippi may also be waiting in the wings.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

 

[McShogun99]

NHL players admitted that season was a joke.
Oilers played VAN, MTL and OTT 36 times that season, 3 terrible teams that year.

Nurse stats were also incredibly inflated that year.

This isn't rocket appliances

Every division had bad teams that the hood teams played an equal amount of times. Amazing that a bad team from the Canadian Division was the one to go to the finals….

 

[BIeucheeseWithWings]

Brad on his way to Utah