Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Broberg, Holloway and Ceci are Gone, Do We Add Another D Before Camp?

[SupremeTeam16]

You're the one that keeps unnecessarily calling me negative. I'm not allowed to address my concerns about the massive hole on the right side?

I legitimately want to know what the plan is. I don't expect a top 4 dman to fall into our laps. If you think Ty Emberson is the answer, that's fair, you are entitled to your opinion. I would absolutely disagree.

You keep referencing this year's Ekholm, so who is it?

If you wanna know what the plan is then get a job in the Oilers hockey ops department. Management isn’t going to put all their cards on the table and lay out their plans in public.

I think it’s safe to assume they understand there’s likely a need to upgrade at the RD position but they’ll want to see what they’ve got in a guy like Emerson first and also let the trade market develop. Two years ago if they would of done what crying fans wanted and made a trade early season we are likely looking at having a guy like Edmundson or way overpaying for Chychrun, instead they were patient and landed the best option who also wasn’t just a rental.

Last year they had a few holes to fill and limited cap space/assets to work with. They were obviously looking at RD but in the end they felt that the options available werent enough of an upgrade over what they had to warrant the cost and instead went for a guy with more versatility who could play on the wing in the top 6 or be an excellent 3C, while also adding another depth right shot C.

Under Knoblauch the team has taken big strides in their overall team defense and that is important because it will allow them to cast a wider net in their search to bolster RD. For anyone expecting an acquisition of an Ekholm level player, I think they’ll be disappointed. Likely the team is going to be shaking the trees looking for a player who’s been misused on his current team, who has some good experience but hasn’t established themselves as a top 4 in that system. I think they follow the Panthers model with an acquisition like Mikkola.

 

[SK13]

John Marino was traded for two 2nd round picks at the draft. We could have fit him in at the expense of signing Skinner.

We could have signed a guy like Matt Roy and kept Ryan McLeod instead of signing Skinner+Henrique (plus say signing a guy like Daniel Sprong who signed for less than $1m).

There were options out there to address the backend. The Oilers prioritized the forward group instead.

Leon Draisaitl being in a negotiation period and the Oilers CONSTANTLY short-changing him as a centre with his linemates had much to do with that, I imagine.

 

[FlameChampion]

John Marino was traded for two 2nd round picks at the draft. We could have fit him in at the expense of signing Skinner.

We could have signed a guy like Matt Roy and kept Ryan McLeod instead of signing Skinner+Henrique (plus say signing a guy like Daniel Sprong who signed for less than $1m).

There were options out there to address the backend. The Oilers prioritized the forward group instead.

Well we drafted Marino and he didn’t want to play here. Roy is American so might not of wanted to play here either.

 

[Fourier]

I know that but we will have accrue some cap space for the deadline acquisitions


Let's just hope whatever made him suck the past couple of years were just injuries

You actually accrue more with both playing if they are on IR if you have to replace them on the roster. You could just play with a shorter roster, but then you just accrue the same amount you would with both playing.

 

[bobbythebrain]

You’re aware that physical injuries can also effect your mental game.

Same way players that are fatigued don’t always make the best plays

I'm aware that I've watched Nurse from the minors till now, and his hockey IQ is the reason, not injuries. I've watched him try to force the same decisions over and over regardless of the outcome.

So blaming his forced rims and reverses on an "injury" doesn't compute

 

[commie]

Isles, Pitt, CBJ, NSH, PHI, Utah, WSH, NJ, Stl, Minny all teams with either new GM's or if they stink it up could be looking at changes. Not necessarily blow it up, but teams that could be looking to tinker with their rosters.

Definitely, a lot can change over the season. NYI is good example, could a Pulock or Mayfield become available? Nashville: Carrier or Fabbro, CBJ: Severson, NJD: Hamilton, STL: Parayko,

Will have to give it time and see what shakes loose and how high the Oilers management team want to go.

 

[Canovin]

You actually accrue more with both playing if they are on IR if you have to replace them on the roster. You could just play with a shorter roster, but then you just accrue the same amount you would with both playing.

Thanks for this info. I did not know that

 

[Spawn]

Well we drafted Marino and he didn’t want to play here. Roy is American so might not of wanted to play here either.

Maybe you’re right.

Brett Pesce, Alex Carrier and Sean Walker were all also available and all are fairly proven top 4 D to varying levels.

Point is, there were options. The Oilers chose to do something different.

Maybe Emberson is a stud and the Oilers are going to look like geniuses. But it’s hard not to look at that right side and not get scared after Bouchard.

 

[commie]

The Oilers "plan", if I had to guess, is to go into camp with these guys and see if they can get by with Emberson at 2RD. Ceci is not hard to live up to, but if it's apparent they have a critical problem during/after preseason, they'll be looking to add prior to the season. That's where Schultz/Shattenkirk/the waiver wire stuff could happen.

Then around the deadline, they'll look to turn that cap space they prioritized over Broberg and Holloway to shore it up. Which might come in the form of a big upgrade, a marginal upgrade or an aging vet - depending on what's available and what it costs.

not a bad plan at all

 

[joestevens29]

I respectfully disagree. There have been occasions in the past of GMS saying they didn't even know a player was available when asked for comments on potential mores for their team. The good GMs are proactive but not all are.

That's just GM's being poor at their job. You should be using the media to bring players values up.

Or on the flip side use it when you are trying to acquire depth players and haven't got a good read on the guy. Stupid Chia with Manning.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Maybe you’re right.

Brett Pesce, Alex Carrier and Sean Walker were all also available and all are fairly proven top 4 D to varying levels.

Point is, there were options. The Oilers chose to do something different.

Maybe Emberson is a stud and the Oilers are going to look like geniuses. But it’s hard not to look at that right side and not get scared after Bouchard.

You also can’t force players to come here, maybe those players were talked to and didn’t have interest

That's just GM's being poor at their job. You should be using the media to bring players values up.

Or on the flip side use it when you are trying to acquire depth players and haven't got a good read on the guy. Stupid Chia with Manning.

Are you allowed to talk about other teams players like that in the media though?

 

[SK13]

I'm aware that I've watched Nurse from the minors till now, and his hockey IQ is the reason, not injuries. I've watched him try to force the same decisions over and over regardless of the outcome.

So blaming his forced rims and reverses on an "injury" doesn't compute

I've always said I thought he was an A+ athlete with a D- brain, but there are ways for him to be put in a position to succeed and not fail.

He's more likely to force rim the puck around the boards if he's under pressure. In the playoffs, the puck didn't go into his corner, it went into Ceci's. And Ceci lost those puck battles often. You want him puck rushing & helping the Oilers tilt the ice forward.

Mobile defenseman who retrieves pucks. I'll bang that drum all day. He needs a Ethan Bear or Tyson Barrie, not a Kris Russell or Cody Ceci.

 

[joestevens29]

You also can’t force players to come here, maybe those players were talked to and didn’t have interest


Are you allowed to talk about other teams players like that in the media though?

Sure why the hell you think Bob always talks about guys? Sure sometimes it's because he's had a hard on for a guy for a decade, but other times it's because he got intel that the Oilers are interested in a guy.

The CHI beat writer was hilarious. Towards the end of the interview he told Gregor "it's too bad your GM didn't leak you guys were interested in Manning a weak ago, would've told you the guy isn't a NHL player anymore".

It's essentially a free way to get some intel.

It's not just beat writers talking to beat writers either, quite a few media guys have connections with scouts around the league

I've always said I thought he was an A+ athlete with a D- brain, but there are ways for him to be put in a position to succeed and not fail.

He's more likely to force rim the puck around the boards if he's under pressure. In the playoffs, the puck didn't go into his corner, it went into Ceci's. And Ceci lost those puck battles often. So now you've got Darnell Nurse, less than 100%, running around trying to get the puck back and move it up ice. Not what Darnell Nurse does best to say the least.

You want him puck rushing. So a player who is quick back and doesn't lose pucks to the forecheck will go along way to getting him into his wheelhouse.

I've said all along: He was his best with Tyson Barrie and Ethan Bear because they suited him moreso than any shutdown or defensive minded player ever will.

I mentioned it earlier, but this is part of Nurse's problem they want him to be that #1 shutdown d-man so much that he starts to overthink things. They are stuck with the guy for at least 4 more seasons. Time to just put him in a position to succeed instead of forcing him to be something he isn't.

 

[Mikey71]

I've always said I thought he was an A+ athlete with a D- brain, but there are ways for him to be put in a position to succeed and not fail.

He's more likely to force rim the puck around the boards if he's under pressure. In the playoffs, the puck didn't go into his corner, it went into Ceci's. And Ceci lost those puck battles often. So now you've got Darnell Nurse, less than 100%, running around trying to get the puck back and move it up ice. Not what Darnell Nurse does best to say the least.

You want him puck rushing. So a player who is quick back and doesn't lose pucks to the forecheck will go along way to getting him into his wheelhouse.

I've said all along: He was his best with Tyson Barrie and Ethan Bear because they suited him moreso than any shutdown or defensive minded player ever will.

I used to think that too and it really was like that before. What Nurse has evolved into now though is that it is a shitshow in his own end. Yeah it was mostly with Ceci the past few years, but there were too many times to count where the opponent that scored was left completely alone. The shitshow is how bad he has become in front, beside, and behind the Oiler net. I think the current Nurse needs a solid defensive partner. Once Nurse can settle things down around his net, he will regain the confidence to let the transition game with the puck on his stick.

We used to have nowhere near the depth we currently have up front. If he can settle things down in his own end, the +/- will settle down and the points will just happen on their own. The Nurse we need isn't the one we used to
.ave.

 

[SK13]

I mentioned it earlier, but this is part of Nurse's problem they want him to be that #1 shutdown d-man so much that he starts to overthink things. They are stuck with the guy for at least 4 more seasons. Time to just put him in a position to succeed instead of forcing him to be something he isn't.

An improved 2line would go along way to helping this as well IMO.

Ekholm and Bouchard ate a huge portion of the 97 ice-time because they were so effective. If Draisaitl actually has a line this year, there will be more opportunity for him to play forward.

I used to think that too and it really was like that before. What Nurse has evolved into now though is that it is a shitshow in his own end. Yeah it was mostly with Ceci the past few years, but there were too many times to count where the opponent that scored was left completely alone. The shitshow is how bad he has become in front, beside, and behind the Oiler net. I think the current Nurse needs a solid defensive partner. Once Nurse can settle things down around his net, he will regain the confidence to let the transition game with the puck on his stick.

We used to have nowhere near the depth we currently have up front. If he can settle things down in his own end, the +/- will settle down and the points will just happen on their own. The Nurse we need isn't the one we used to
.ave.

You can shove a square peg into a round hole and hope it works, devaluing the asset immensely and worsening your team. Or you can consider trying to get Nurse away from his own net as much as possible 5v5.

Even if the goal is to eventually find a way out of him, you need to play him for what he is. He will never be a 5v5 shutdown defenseman. He can, and almost always has been, a strong 5v5 outscorer.

 

[Spawn]

You also can’t force players to come here, maybe those players were talked to and didn’t have interest

Maybe

 

[Mikey71]

An improved 2line would go along way to helping this as well IMO.

Ekholm and Bouchard ate a huge portion of the 97 ice-time because they were so effective. If Draisaitl actually has a line this year, there will be more opportunity for him to play forward.



You can shove a square peg into a round hole and hope it works, devaluing the asset immensely and worsening your team. Or you can consider trying to get Nurse away from his own net as much as possible 5v5.

Even if the goal is to eventually find a way out of him, you need to play him for what he is. He will never be a 5v5 shutdown defenseman. He can, and almost always has been, a strong 5v5 outscorer.

My point is that the biggest problem with Nurse these past few years is that he IS away from his net too often. The biggest hole in his game right now is the clusterf*** around the Oiler net when he is out there. How many goals were scored on us when either he or Ceci were even close to where they were supposed to be? You can't transition the puck when you don't have the puck. He used to be the big mean bastard in front of his net that was hard to play against. He was that way back when I watched him here in the Soo as a 16 year old. The worst thing that happened to him was those couple of years when he was scoring. It totally placed him in a type of defenceman category that he wasn't. It wasn't sustainable and also when combined to it happening in his bridge years, got his the contract he will never live up to.

I never have and never will be glad he is on the ice when the Oilers are down a goal late in the game. I will hope it is Bouchard and Ekholm every time. What I will hope for and think it is easier for him to attain is being that solid defensive player he used to be in his early years when holding a lead late in the game. His hockey brain doesn't allow for him to lean more offensively while at the same time playing solid defensively.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You're just putting words in my mouth. I never said that we should give up. I get that most fans just want to pretend that everything is fine and will work itself out but realistically you need to map out a plan and figure out what your options are.

Jackson and Bowman said that when the offer sheets came through, they looked at the different scenarios and paths forward. Ultimately, they decided that they wanted flexibility, cap savings and assets. It's very clear to me that they have a plan in place.

I'm a planner. I'm logical. The Oilers management staff appear to be the same.

People keep saying that "nobody expected Ekholm to be available" but that's just not true. Oiler fans identified him as potential option well in advance even if he wasn't available at that time. I even remember on Connor McDavids birthday (January 13th) that Gregor was asked if you could give McDavid a present what would it be? The answer he gave was Ekholm.

Chychrun was moved in the offseason. It's actually a great example of how Washington was able to get him for cheap while the ask from Edmonton was a 1st + Broberg. Timing is so important and being proactive can save you in the long run. The Oilers can't afford to overpay guys because they don't have the draft capital to outbid teams. Last year Holland tried to wait until the deadline and no one was available. We didn't upgrade last deadline and ended up acquiring Henrique instead. We can't afford to leave the defense two years in a row.

Heck, Sean Walker would have been free last offseason but now he's unavailable. Who is this year's Walker? Who can potentially become available?

Ekholm was in trade speculation going back seasons. It's myth making that he suddenly popped up in final days of trade deadline. Anyone paying attention knew he was a player whose name swirled around for more than a season. They got their price of 2 1st round equivalents really around liking Schaffer as prospective power forward type player.

Nashville Predators trade Mattias Ekholm to Edmonton Oilers as selling continues

Mattias Ekholm, a 32-year-old defenseman and Nashville Predators veteran, has been traded to the Edmonton Oilers, according to a source

www.tennessean.com

"Sort of the same situation as Tanner," Poile said of trading Ekholm. "You kind of set a price. A number of teams called, so all those rumors you read are true. We set a price and nobody met what the price was until today. I didn't want to trade him but it was just too good of a deal. A little bit of that reset we're trying do."

Ekholm himself commented on hearing his name being in trade rumours and speculation for seasons:
"I feel like it's every other year now," Ekholm said of hearing his name in trade rumors. "I don't even know how to answer. I stand here now and feel confident to be with this group. I want to be here, obviously. I signed a contract to stay here and I have no other thoughts in my head, whether I'll be traded or not. It's not up to me."

The Oilers reality is they've spent to deepen their team and haven't cap or really roster tradeable parts to make their big move for a 2RD to start the season. They're left with two options - rotate a platoon of 3rd pair, 7th d to see if there's adequate coverage for Ceci minutes and PK responsibilities (a big hole). Emberson age hopefully has latent potential. He's a real threat to lose on waivers and needs to play games or he's UFA end of season so he's going to play. Second option is to invest cheap in an aging veteran without contract whose played the minutes and proven to be able to handle the responsibilities and pressure required on a deep playoff aspirational team.

Most likely the Oilers build up their cap space and deal with the uncertain supply availability and pricing of trade deadline. Pending the defending type and pedigree, they're maybe into next year's 1st round pick and their secondary picks at high end player market with term. Expiring contract options or a more utilitarian, specialist guy like veteran defensive shutdown type will be cheaper, maybe with hope of a cheap re-sign like Henrique did.

2RD has been a challenge position for a long while. It needs to be fixed as a lingering issue on a window team.

Expiring Contracts:
Detroit: Jeff Petry $2,062,500 ($5.5 million/62.5% retained)
San Jose: Jan Rutta $2.75, Ceci $3.2
Seattle: Will Borgen $2.7

Middle RD with Term:
Chicago: Connor Murphy $4.4 x 2 years
Anaheim: Radko Gudas $4 x 2
Ottawa: Nic Jensen 2 Year contract $4,050 million.
Philadelphia: Rasmus Ristolainen $5,1 x 3 years
Minnesota: Jared Spurgeon $7.58 x 3 years
Calgary: Rasmus Andersson . MacKenzie Weegar (extreme long shots)

 

[AM]

I don’t understand this line of thinking at all. You want our two toughest guys to sit all year, so who replaces that toughness? You do realize this is a contact sport and having your face in the glass for 82 games isn’t a recipe for success. Some here are worried McD gets worn out, wait til he gets run through the glass and RNH has to come to the rescue.

Rnh might surprise.

 

[AM]

If you wanna know what the plan is then get a job in the Oilers hockey ops department. Management isn’t going to put all their cards on the table and lay out their plans in public.

I think it’s safe to assume they understand there’s likely a need to upgrade at the RD position but they’ll want to see what they’ve got in a guy like Emerson first and also let the trade market develop. Two years ago if they would of done what crying fans wanted and made a trade early season we are likely looking at having a guy like Edmundson or way overpaying for Chychrun, instead they were patient and landed the best option who also wasn’t just a rental.

Last year they had a few holes to fill and limited cap space/assets to work with. They were obviously looking at RD but in the end they felt that the options available werent enough of an upgrade over what they had to warrant the cost and instead went for a guy with more versatility who could play on the wing in the top 6 or be an excellent 3C, while also adding another depth right shot C.

Under Knoblauch the team has taken big strides in their overall team defense and that is important because it will allow them to cast a wider net in their search to bolster RD. For anyone expecting an acquisition of an Ekholm level player, I think they’ll be disappointed. Likely the team is going to be shaking the trees looking for a player who’s been misused on his current team, who has some good experience but hasn’t established themselves as a top 4 in that system. I think they follow the Panthers model with an acquisition like Mikkola.

The plan is obvious. Cup or bust. Even some of the strategy, don’t pay developing players as you you want to win this year.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Ekholm was in trade speculation going back seasons. It's myth making that he suddenly popped up in final days of trade deadline. Anyone paying attention knew he was a player whose name swirled around for more than a season. They got their price of 2 1st round equivalents really around liking Schaffer as prospective power forward type player.

Nashville Predators trade Mattias Ekholm to Edmonton Oilers as selling continues

Mattias Ekholm, a 32-year-old defenseman and Nashville Predators veteran, has been traded to the Edmonton Oilers, according to a source

www.tennessean.com

"Sort of the same situation as Tanner," Poile said of trading Ekholm. "You kind of set a price. A number of teams called, so all those rumors you read are true. We set a price and nobody met what the price was until today. I didn't want to trade him but it was just too good of a deal. A little bit of that reset we're trying do."

Ekholm himself commented on hearing his name being in trade rumours and speculation for seasons:
"I feel like it's every other year now," Ekholm said of hearing his name in trade rumors. "I don't even know how to answer. I stand here now and feel confident to be with this group. I want to be here, obviously. I signed a contract to stay here and I have no other thoughts in my head, whether I'll be traded or not. It's not up to me."

The Oilers reality is they've spent to deepen their team and haven't cap or really roster tradeable parts to make their big move for a 2RD to start the season. They're left with two options - rotate a platoon of 3rd pair, 7th d to see if there's adequate coverage for Ceci minutes and PK responsibilities (a big hole). Emberson age hopefully has latent potential. He's a real threat to lose on waivers and needs to play games or he's UFA end of season so he's going to play. Second option is to invest cheap in an aging veteran without contract whose played the minutes and proven to be able to handle the responsibilities and pressure required on a deep playoff aspirational team.

Most likely the Oilers build up their cap space and deal with the uncertain supply availability and pricing of trade deadline. Pending the defending type and pedigree, they're maybe into next year's 1st round pick and their secondary picks at high end player market with term. Expiring contract options or a more utilitarian, specialist guy like veteran defensive shutdown type will be cheaper, maybe with hope of a cheap re-sign like Henrique did.

2RD has been a challenge position for a long while. It needs to be fixed as a lingering issue on a window team.

Expiring Contracts:
Detroit: Jeff Petry $2,062,500 ($5.5 million/62.5% retained)
San Jose: Jan Rutta $2.75, Ceci $3.2
Seattle: Will Borgen $2.7

Middle RD with Term:
Chicago: Connor Murphy $4.4 x 2 years
Anaheim: Radko Gudas $4 x 2
Ottawa: Nic Jensen 2 Year contract $4,050 million.
Philadelphia: Rasmus Ristolainen $5,1 x 3 years
Minnesota: Jared Spurgeon $7.58 x 3 years
Calgary: Rasmus Andersson . MacKenzie Weegar (extreme long shots)

I wonder if Demelo could find his way into that second category. Central has Dal, Col as locks and Nashville/STL probably in the mix, have to think Utah makes strides at some point and Wild are always kind of hanging around. They just extended him but they didn’t give him any trade protection and I could see a situation similar to the Ekholm one where they trade him not long after extending.

 

[brentashton]

Having either start the season on IR does not help the cap. The only way this space is valuable is if they are on LTIR from before the deadline to the end of the season.

We should sticky this post to every thread started about injuries, trades and so on.

 

[NeverForget06]

John Marino was traded for two 2nd round picks at the draft. We could have fit him in at the expense of signing Skinner.

We could have signed a guy like Matt Roy and kept Ryan McLeod instead of signing Skinner+Henrique (plus say signing a guy like Daniel Sprong who signed for less than $1m).

There were options out there to address the backend. The Oilers prioritized the forward group instead.

I know this was pointed out but Marino did not want to be here originally, doubt he would have come back.

Matt Roy signed a huge deal worth 5.75 mill a year and I've yet to see evidence he is worth that. If the Oilers signed that deal people would have lost it around here.

Sprong is terrible defensively and a cancer, which is proven by the fact that he can put up points and no one wants him for anything but league min and I don't see how you would rather have McLeod than Henrique after last playoffs. McLeod folded.

There was not a compelling RHD available during free agency, and there still may not be. They will accrue cap during the season and make a move closer to the deadline if the current group is not working.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I wonder if Demelo could find his way into that second category. Central has Dal, Col as locks and Nashville/STL probably in the mix, have to think Utah makes strides at some point and Wild are always kind of hanging around. They just extended him but they didn’t give him any trade protection and I could see a situation similar to the Ekholm one where they trade him not long after extending.

I missed Winnipeg in my quick scan. I can definitely see regression with that team.
GM Chevy is a pretty shrewd trader so not sure there's value shopping to be found there.

Personally I think Pionk might more likely with his expiring contract I missed. Good hard ice, nasty player with the American birth certificate might be a moveable piece if it looks like they can't re-sign him. Demelo (who I know you like) looks locked in as a core guy with term.

 

[Spawn]

I know this was pointed out but Marino did not want to be here originally, doubt he would have come back.

Matt Roy signed a huge deal worth 5.75 mill a year and I've yet to see evidence he is worth that. If the Oilers signed that deal people would have lost it around here.

Sprong is terrible defensively and a cancer, which is proven by the fact that he can put up points and no one wants him for anything but league min and I don't see how you would rather have McLeod than Henrique after last playoffs. McLeod folded.

There was not a compelling RHD available during free agency, and there still may not be. They will accrue cap during the season and make a move closer to the deadline if the current group is not working.

Marino didnt have trade protection at the time of the deal. It was also reported at the time that the reason he didn’t want to sign in Edmonton was because he didn’t see a path to make the team with other prospects in the organization ahead of him.

Matt Roy was just one example. I listed a number of other ones. Pesce, Walker, Carrier.

You’re free to call Sprong awful defensively. It’s not like Skinner doesn’t also have his warts. Hence being bought out by his previous team.

Additionally, a number of the options available wouldn’t have required anything different other than not signing Skinner.

The Oilers made a choice to spend $10m on middle six forwards. There were other options available to them. I’m not even necessarily saying it was the wrong choice. But some in this thread are acting like there was nothing else the team could have done. That’s not the case.