Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Pre season edition

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Pageau is apparently out 4-6 months, longer if he needs surgery. Achilles injury.

Duchene walks in a year. Stone walks in a year.

A stark reminder that it could be worse, those Sens.

Sucks for Pageau, hopefully it doesn't affect him long term. He's a guy I would like the Oilers to try an pry out of there before this.

 

[Aceboogie]

I mean... we outright tanked and never lost an asset trade this bad.

Until 2016 yes.

 

[Jumptheshark]

#1 D are never traded

In all realness, our current team was likely were not in the running for Karlsson, either because we were on his no trade list, or he wouldnt resign here. This is why it is so important to build a competent contender, because if dont, top players will never agree to come to a bad team (in a less desirable city). The way the NHL is, the rich (well built teams) get richer because top players just go there. There is dispropriate advantages to acquiring and holding on to good players. Then with only a few well built teams in the league, they are able to offer steep discounts for those players because there is a lack of options these players are willing to go

Id bet dollars to donuts that had we built a good team around McDavid, Karlsson would have been willing, or atleast alot more willing than now, to accept a trade here

I think it has to do where our team plays more then players on the team

 

[CycloneSweep]

I think it has to do where our team plays more then players on the team

Our teams sucks because it's in Edmonton?

 

[Da McBomb]

That kind of crappy return should have included Bobby Ryan in the deal.

 

[McDNicks17]

Karlsson, Burns and Braun down the right side isn't even fair.

 

[joestevens29]

Sucks for Pageau, hopefully it doesn't affect him long term. He's a guy I would like the Oilers to try an pry out of there before this.

Pfft, guy is the middle of a contract. Probably the happiest Senator right now.

I don't know if mentioned, but I read something last week that Anderson asked for a trade. Wonder if he's next

 

[McDNicks17]

I'd be calling San Jose about Tim Heed although I'm not sure what San Jose would realistically want.

27 year offensive rightie.

 

[Aceboogie]

I think it has to do where our team plays more then players on the team

Maybe. But a good team with McDavid who is winning is pretty appealing. As much as its a media fish bowl, if you are winning your treated like a god. A bad team in a not desirable city with intense media scrutiny will never attract the best players (unless we pay out the nose)

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

the Sens organization is a mess

-terrible, cheap owner
-terrible arena
-no 1st rounder this upcoming draft for the "re-build" unless SJ missed the playoffs (lol)

but I guess a lot of spare parts and 2nd rounders

tough to believe they were 1 shot away from a Cup final appearance just a year and a half ago...

 

[Jumptheshark]

Our teams sucks because it's in Edmonton?

he was never coming to Edmonton

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Pfft, guy is the middle of a contract. Probably the happiest Senator right now.

I don't know if mentioned, but I read something last week that Anderson asked for a trade. Wonder if he's next

I wonder how "loud" he'll be about wanting to be moved as the season progresses.

 

[joestevens29]

I wonder how "loud" he'll be about wanting to be moved as the season progresses.

The article I read essentially said that Anderson doesn't want to go through another year like 17-18 as he's too old to deal with drama

 

[belair]

I don't think it's as complicated as that at all. The hardest part is finding those top tier players. You basically have to either spend some time in the toilet or get really really lucky at the draft table to get them. So if you're a team that's lacking in that department and a chance comes along to get one, you simply have to try.

I think this is the point of contention here. I think you underrate how important it is to build a competitive roster that can fend for itself. This means including some of these 'elite' players, but they are part of a team built on success by committee. It's not about individually matching up players either. There are five skaters on the ice for each team--chemistry plays an integral part in team success as well. This is another reason why internal development is so important for a roster.

You look at the most recent example of Karlsson to San Jose and you'll see a veteran team who in the last three seasons have gone to the Finals, lost in the first round and lost in the second round. They're a team that has regularly finished in the top of their division, yet has managed to find themselves in a position where they have the cap flexibility to add a significant salary considering the age of some of their players. They didn't add him because their thought process was 'hey, elite player! what the hell?' They added him because they were a competitive team with the cap flexibility to add a player who could improve their roster for a cost that's not likely to cause any significant issues for them down the road. They are a team poised for a Cup run gearing up for a Cup run.

 

[belair]

I wouldn't be too worried about their prospect pool.

San Jose is probably the best team in the league at finding European free agents.

They had Heed, Karlsson, Donskoi and Sorensen on the roster last year and they just signed Antti Suomela(24 year old who led the Finnish league in scoring last season) and a few other promising guys.

I'm not. Wilson's done a great job with them from the beginning. They're in a situation where a lot of those guys are just going to retire. Their cap clearing will almost take care of itself.

 

[joestevens29]

I'm not. Wilson's done a great job with them from the beginning. They're in a situation where a lot of those guys are just going to retire. Their cap clearing will almost take care of itself.

I think the cap is going to clear just fine, I question whether they have the back fill of players. They seem to have a lot of good complimentary players, but do they have any forwards that are going to step up and put up the kind of points the Joe's and Patrick did?

 

[Jumptheshark]

Sens fans are getting a rope for a good old fashion lynching

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Sucks for Pageau, hopefully it doesn't affect him long term. He's a guy I would like the Oilers to try an pry out of there before this.

He’s one of the better 3C’s in the league - low end 2C.

Man what does Ottawa even have left?

Tkachuk-Duchene-Stone
Boedker-Tierney-Ryan
White-Dzingel-Smith
Paajarvi-Pyatt-Gaborik

Chabot-Ceci
Borowiecki-DeMelo
Harpur-Wideman

Anderson
Condon

Jesus. If that roster breaks 65 points I’ll be floored.

 

[CycloneSweep]

He’s one of the better 3C’s in the league - low end 2C.

Man what does Ottawa even have left?

Tkachuk-Duchene-Stone
Boedker-Tierney-Ryan
White-Dzingel-Smith
Paajarvi-Pyatt-Gaborik

Chabot-Ceci
Borowiecki-DeMelo
Harpur-Wideman

Anderson
Condon

Jesus. If that roster breaks 65 points I’ll be floored.

That top line could make some noise and Anderson is still good...

You never know, 65 points is possible.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I really hope the Oilers can get Dzingel out of there, his speed would be great to add on the wings.

 

[Little Fury]

I think this is the point of contention here. I think you underrate how important it is to build a competitive roster that can fend for itself. This means including some of these 'elite' players, but they are part of a team built on success by committee. It's not about individually matching up players either. There are five skaters on the ice for each team--chemistry plays an integral part in team success as well. This is another reason why internal development is so important for a roster.

If you throw McDavid out there with Cagguila and Kharia with Russell and Benning on the blueline, we all know who is going to be the guy driving the bus. Look at Crosby: how many times has he made dudes like Kunitz and Sheary into rich men? Hell, look at Maroon here: a guy we got for peanuts and he crushed it with McDavid. That's the value of elite layers and why they are more important than depth pieces (that can be had for a song) or chemistry (which can't be controlled).

You look at the most recent example of Karlsson to San Jose and you'll see a veteran team who in the last three seasons have gone to the Finals, lost in the first round and lost in the second round. They're a team that has regularly finished in the top of their division, yet has managed to find themselves in a position where they have the cap flexibility to add a significant salary considering the age of some of their players. They didn't add him because their thought process was 'hey, elite player! what the hell?' They added him because they were a competitive team with the cap flexibility to add a player who could improve their roster for a cost that's not likely to cause any significant issues for them down the road. They are a team poised for a Cup run gearing up for a Cup run.

And why has San Jose been a team that's been consistently successful (at least in the regular season)? How did they get to the place where they were a competitive team? Was it developing depth pieces or was it because they've had Joe Thornton, Brent Burns (both trade acquisitions btw) along with homegrown talents (and top 10 draft picks) Marleau and Couture?

Your argument, if I can try and paraphrase, is you need to draft and develop and build depth to be consistently successful before going after big fish. And I think the only way you can be consistently successful is if you have those big fish. As GM, your job gets a helluva lot easier when you only have to fill in the blanks around your stars. Or, as Ray Shero said: “I definitely wasn’t looking to trade Adam Larsson. But I may never get a chance again to get Taylor Hall.”

 

[CycloneSweep]

If you throw McDavid out there with Cagguila and Kharia with Russell and Benning on the blueline, we all know who is going to be the guy driving the bus. Look at Crosby: how many times has he made dudes like Kunitz and Sheary into rich men? Hell, look at Maroon here: a guy we got for peanuts and he crushed it with McDavid. That's the value of elite layers and why they are more important than depth pieces (that can be had for a song) or chemistry (which can't be controlled).



And why has San Jose been a team that's been consistently successful (at least in the regular season)? How did they get to the place where they were a competitive team? Was it developing depth pieces or was it because they've had Joe Thornton, Brent Burns (both trade acquisitions btw) along with homegrown talents (and top 10 draft picks) Marleau and Couture?

Your argument, if I can try and paraphrase, is you need to draft and develop and build depth to be consistently successful before going after big fish. And I think the only way you can be consistently successful is if you have those big fish. As GM, your job gets a helluva lot easier when you only have to fill in the blanks around your stars. Or, as Ray Shero said: “I definitely wasn’t looking to trade Adam Larsson. But I may never get a chance again to get Taylor Hall.”

So a top 6 of

Caggiula - McDavid - Rattie
Upshall - Draisaitl - Rieder

Would make sense to you cause elite players should make nobodies into somebodies at will.

His point is before your org goes out and gets big fish externally they need to be stable first to bring those guys in or else you just have a few elite players missing the playoffs cause the rest of the roster doesn't know which way to go.

 

[Ruok]

This must really suck as a sens fan. It will sting worse when an expansion happens again and that team is instantly in a better situation than they are.

 

[belair]

If you throw McDavid out there with Cagguila and Kharia with Russell and Benning on the blueline, we all know who is going to be the guy driving the bus. Look at Crosby: how many times has he made dudes like Kunitz and Sheary into rich men? Hell, look at Maroon here: a guy we got for peanuts and he crushed it with McDavid. That's the value of elite layers and why they are more important than depth pieces (that can be had for a song) or chemistry (which can't be controlled).

And why has San Jose been a team that's been consistently successful (at least in the regular season)? How did they get to the place where they were a competitive team? Was it developing depth pieces or was it because they've had Joe Thornton, Brent Burns (both trade acquisitions btw) along with homegrown talents (and top 10 draft picks) Marleau and Couture?

Your argument, if I can try and paraphrase, is you need to draft and develop and build depth to be consistently successful before going after big fish. And I think the only way you can be consistently successful is if you have those big fish. As GM, your job gets a helluva lot easier when you only have to fill in the blanks around your stars. Or, as Ray Shero said: “I definitely wasn’t looking to trade Adam Larsson. But I may never get a chance again to get Taylor Hall.”

If you draft and develop, you'll generally end up with a few of those big fish. If you do a good enough job building the foundation you might even turn some medium fish into big fish from time to time. If you trade away all of your promising little fish early on for a big fish, you're comprimising your availability of medium fish and reducing the likelihood they turn into big fish. Medium fish aren't cheap or easy to get, or we'd already have a few of them. And then there's the salary cap, which gets f***ed up from get go when you just throw a big fish in there at the start.

 

[CycloneSweep]

If you draft and develop, you'll generally end up with a few of those big fish. If you do a good enough job building the foundation you might even turn some medium fish into big fish from time to time. If you trade away all of your promising little fish early on for a big fish, you're comprimising your availability of medium fish and reducing the likelihood they turn into big fish. Medium fish aren't cheap or easy to get, or we'd already have a few of them. And then there's the salary cap, which gets ****ed up from get go when you just throw a big fish in there at the start.

Yep. If all you have is rotting fish there is little chance a big fish will want to be in your pond.