Euro: Round of 16 - France v. Belgium - Jul. 1

[spintheblackcircle]

So was the guy with the mask.

So unimpressed by him

 

[gary69]

Best doesn't mean attractive. I find it hilarious you're saying scoring goals doesn't mean attractive when you're a fan of the coach who plays the most boring football while scoring goals in the history of the game.

And which 3 finals?
I don't even know if any NT EVER has reached 3 finals in 4 tournaments like Euro and WC. And the 2 losses came from a PK shootout and a once in a lifetime lucky strike.
So save the "weird that you like it". Everyone would.
If France had played more open, they probably wouldn't have reached all those finals.

Brazil did reach 5 finals in 5 tournaments in the 1990s (Copas and WCs).

 

[Evilo]

Yeah it's why I specified Euro.
Brazil and Argentina are usually in the Copa final most years.

 

[gary69]

Okay, then you can choose West Germany from 1972 to 1976 (3 in 3) or 1972 - 1982 (5 in 6) or even 1972 to 1990 (7 in 10) or 1972 to 1996 (9 in 13) .

 

[Evilo]

Okay, then you can choose West Germany from 1972 to 1976 (3 in 3) or 1972 - 1982 (5 in 6) or even 1972 to 1990 (7 in 10) or 1972 to 1996 (9 in 13) .

Yeah I was talking 3 in 4 as being competitive for 8 straight years.
Spain did it more recently than Germany.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

It's easy enough to say "making the finals of these tournaments is just meeting expectations, they have the best squad!" but have we not seen time and time again that teams with top squads underperform? You have to actually get the results, and France's time with Deschamps has been about as successful as you could conceivably ask it to be. He's very clearly instilled a strong team cohesion that has lasted despite the squad almost having turned over 100% (Kante, Griezmann, Coman, and Giroud are the only remaining players from 2016). In Qatar they made the final without having ever really gotten into gear, and were a penalty kick away from winning it.

 

[gary69]

Yeah I was talking 3 in 4 as being competitive for 8 straight years.
Spain did it more recently than Germany.

Well, if you want to specify 3 in 4 then Germany did that too, and they were certainly competitive in WC 1978, where they lost only one match in the 2nd group phase and there were no knockout matches other than the final.

But as I mentioned they were much more than merely 3 in 4, they were pretty much always competitive and near reaching the final for 26 years from early 1970s until late 1990s.

I doubt any country will match them in the near future.

They've not reached quite that level in this millenia (24 years), but still 3 finals and 4 additional SFs in 12 finals tournaments isn't a terrible record although they haven't done anything noteworthy since 2016.

 

[cgf]

I do think Euro 16 should have been a win though.
WC 22 is just tough luck.

Euro 16 should've been a loss in the SFs ;-)

...but yeah, I thought both our teams were stronger than Portugal's, even though they Rehagel'd their way to a title...

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Euro 16 should've been a loss in the SFs ;-)

...but yeah, I thought both our teams were stronger than Portugal's, even though they Rehagel'd their way to a title...

You and I have very different memories of Euro 16, I think, because my recollection is that Germany were pretty terrible from the first kick of the tournament until they eventually went out. I don't recall the specifics of that SF, but that is how I remember the tourney for Germany.

 

[Evilo]

Euro 16 should've been a loss in the SFs ;-)

...but yeah, I thought both our teams were stronger than Portugal's, even though they Rehagel'd their way to a title...

Can't say it should have been except in your dreams. France was the better team.

 

[cgf]

Can't say it should have been except in your dreams. France was the better team.

After halftime you were. In the first half, Germany was obviously superior. We failed to capitalize and then you got your head out of your ass for the second half, but in that first half you were on the back foot the entire time.

 

[cgf]

You and I have very different memories of Euro 16, I think, because my recollection is that Germany were pretty terrible from the first kick of the tournament until they eventually went out. I don't recall the specifics of that SF, but that is how I remember the tourney for Germany.

The complacency that would kill us in 2018 hadn't yet taken hold...that only started to get really bad after this & the Confed Cup.

We walked through the group & round of 16, overcame our bogey team...in penalties!...in the QFs, and then were bossing the first half against France. We failed to capitalize and they came out for the 2nd half like a house on fire, but that team could've easily made it back to back trophies.

 

[Evilo]

After halftime you were. In the first half, Germany was obviously superior. We failed to capitalize and then you got your head out of your ass for the second half, but in that first half you were on the back foot the entire time.

We dominated early with a big Griez chance to top it off.
Then Germany got better and was better for 20 minutes. Then France scored. Then halftime right after the goal. We had one less shot on target in that first half. So...
In fact most of your chances came in the last 15 minutes when you were pushing. It was already 2-0.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I thought it was a game on a knife's edge for a long time, especially at 0-0, but the penalty kinda shifted things around. Don't think at that point that particular German team really had the belief to get back into it.

My general memory of that tournament was that Germany looked lackluster but professional in the group stage and Rd of 16. The QF against Italy - which was definitely not a 'vintage' Italy team - in hindsight appears to be a clear warning sign that there's something not quite right with the team, but at the time I think the relief about having beaten Italy finally in a K.O. match dominated.

Going into the France game, I think everyone knew it was a 50-50 affair especially given it was on French turf. Also in hindsight a lot of people gloss over that 2014 QF like it was just a minor part of the journey (since the SF and Final are obviously the most memorable games). Arguably that France team was the toughest opponent Germany played that tournament.

 

[gary69]

Also in hindsight a lot of people gloss over that 2014 QF like it was just a minor part of the journey (since the SF and Final are obviously the most memorable games). Arguably that France team was the toughest opponent Germany played that tournament.

I don't know about being the toughest opponents in 2014, but if Higuain had been even a half-decent finisher in the final, he would have scored at least two from all the chances he got.

Also Germany could have lost against Algeria if not for the greatest ever sweeper-keeper performance by Neuer, clearing so many counter attacks all by himself.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I don't know about being the toughest opponents in 2014, but if Higuain had been even a half-decent finisher in the final, he would have scored at least two from all the chances he got.

Also Germany could have lost against Algeria if not for the greatest ever sweeper-keeper performance by Neuer, clearing so many counter attacks all by himself.

It's funny what tricks memory can play. Higuain had one big chance after a big Kroos mistake, and honestly people overstate how good a chance it actually was. Not only was Higuain surprised that he got the ball, he had a defender closing in on the back, and Neuer coming out in front. Other than taking a quick shot (with sub-optimal body position), he didn't have a ton of options. Obviously you can score on that, and given the context you want to score on that, but it's not the sitter of all sitters that people portray it as.

Higuain then scored a disallowed goal where he was offside by a mile (which is probably where the confusion arises that he had multiple big chances).

The best Argentinian chance in the game in my mind was actually by Messi in the 2nd half who took a clean shot from a typical goal scoring position about 10 yards out. While that was also no sitter because it was at an angle and Neuer was well-positioned, a player like Messi scores on that 80% of the time. He just didn't quite place it right.

 

[koyvoo]

I agree that Messi’s chance was more clear cut that Higuain’s, and based on pedigree as well, should’ve been a surer bet to be converted.

 

[gary69]

It's funny what tricks memory can play. Higuain had one big chance after a big Kroos mistake, and honestly people overstate how good a chance it actually was. Not only was Higuain surprised that he got the ball, he had a defender closing in on the back, and Neuer coming out in front. Other than taking a quick shot (with sub-optimal body position), he didn't have a ton of options. Obviously you can score on that, and given the context you want to score on that, but it's not the sitter of all sitters that people portray it as.

Higuain then scored a disallowed goal where he was offside by a mile (which is probably where the confusion arises that he had multiple big chances).

The best Argentinian chance in the game in my mind was actually by Messi in the 2nd half who took a clean shot from a typical goal scoring position about 10 yards out. While that was also no sitter because it was at an angle and Neuer was well-positioned, a player like Messi scores on that 80% of the time. He just didn't quite place it right.

Okay, if I ever have time, looks like I need to re-watch the match

 

[Rob]

I'm afraid Portugal might be playing for penalties from the get go

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Best doesn't mean attractive. I find it hilarious you're saying scoring goals doesn't mean attractive when you're a fan of the coach who plays the most boring football while scoring goals in the history of the game.

And which 3 finals?
I don't even know if any NT EVER has reached 3 finals in 4 tournaments like Euro and WC. And the 2 losses came from a PK shootout and a once in a lifetime lucky strike.
So save the "weird that you like it". Everyone would.
If France had played more open, they probably wouldn't have reached all those finals.

Jesus, you made quite a leap from your other post... Goals = Attractive (Usually) then go on to say my favourite coach plays the most boring football and scores the most goals in the history of the game. Wow looool you are losing it my friend. You would be on your knees if Pep went to PSG. PLENTY of boring coaches out there, Pep plays the prettiest football. There really isnt anyone close to him.

Argentina lost 2014,2015 and 2016 finals. This was not a success. Improvement over their earlier years but no it wasn't successful.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Yeah it's why I specified Euro.
Brazil and Argentina are usually in the Copa final most years.

No they haven't. In the last 40 years, there have been 14 Copa of which Argentina have been in the final times (2 of which are the ones they lost back to back) and Brasil have been in the finals 7 times in the timespan. Neither of which are MOST years. Overall Uruguay are tied with Argentina with the most Copa trophies and have been in more finals than Brasil.

 

[Evilo]

Jesus, you made quite a leap from your other post... Goals = Attractive (Usually) then go on to say my favourite coach plays the most boring football and scores the most goals in the history of the game. Wow looool you are losing it my friend. You would be on your knees if Pep went to PSG. PLENTY of boring coaches out there, Pep plays the prettiest football. There really isnt anyone close to him.

Argentina lost 2014,2015 and 2016 finals. This was not a success. Improvement over their earlier years but no it wasn't successful.

Of course I'd be over the moon. He is the best coach and arguably the best ever. Doesn't change my point.

And yes you lost the plot. I pointed out the ironic nature of your post.

 

[Evilo]

No they haven't. In the last 40 years, there have been 14 Copa of which Argentina have been in the final times (2 of which are the ones they lost back to back) and Brasil have been in the finals 7 times in the timespan. Neither of which are MOST years. Overall Uruguay are tied with Argentina with the most Copa trophies and have been in more finals than Brasil.

So I checked.
In 48 editions, Argentina won 15 times and reached the final 29 times. Reached the SF 36 times out of 48. So yeah... I don't think that's comparable to Euro. No team could reach 36 out of 48 semi finals here.
Brazil seems modest with 31 semis and 21 finals.

Let's be honest. Only 3 teams are playing the Copa. The rest are just showing up. And they're playing every 2 or 3 years.
So it's much more likely to play 3 finals in 4 tournaments for Argentina or Brazil anytime they reach a WC final. Which is, per your ideas, extremely easy when you have the best team. Even more than that, not reach the final but winning it. Because losing it is a failure for you.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Of course I'd be over the moon. He is the best coach and arguably the best ever. Doesn't change my point.

And yes you lost the plot. I pointed out the ironic nature of your post.

Nothing ironic about my post. Pep doesn’t play boring football let alone the most boring football in history. Gross hyperbole. Unlike DD, pep actually wins.

So I checked.
In 48 editions, Argentina won 15 times and reached the final 29 times. Reached the SF 36 times out of 48. So yeah... I don't think that's comparable to Euro. No team could reach 36 out of 48 semi finals here.
Brazil seems modest with 31 semis and 21 finals.

Let's be honest. Only 3 teams are playing the Copa. The rest are just showing up. And they're playing every 2 or 3 years.
So it's much more likely to play 3 finals in 4 tournaments for Argentina or Brazil anytime they reach a WC final. Which is, per your ideas, extremely easy when you have the best team. Even more than that, not reach the final but winning it. Because losing it is a failure for you.

You are still wrong. Losing to a shit Portugal team in 2016 isn’t a success and losing to a bad Argentina with one WC player is also not a success.

 

[koyvoo]

Biggest problem with the traditional Copa is the number of teams. Most tournaments, 80% of the teams involved make the quarterfinals for gods sake. . After a certain about of time, everyone will eventually stumble their way into a final, or a win.

I like the addition of the concacaf teams to negate the problem if too few teams, but the concacaf teams are nowhere near good enough.