Prospect Info: Round 4, Pick 94, Zayde Wisdom, RW, Kingston (OHL)

[FLYguy3911]

Nowhere had I implied that either players were grinders. NAK, despite having some specific noteworthy offensive tools, was never drafted as a "skill guy" though. It just didn't happen that way, go back and read the scouting reports for yourselves, the two are basically interchangeable.

I'm not sure why it's taken as a dig, I really like these 2 players.

I don't need to read scouting reports. I saw him play two full years in Junior. NAK was a lot more skilled at the same age as a shooter and puck carrier. Better skater as well. He lacked a bit in the playmaking department, but same could be said about Wisdom. Wisdom is going to do his best work off the puck and around the net. NAK was a legitimate threat on the puck. He even played the halfwall on the PP. Wisdom is a net-front guy.

 

[tymed]

I don't need to read scouting reports. I saw him play two full years in Junior. NAK was a lot more skilled at the same age as a shooter and puck carrier. Better skater as well. He lacked a bit in the playmaking department, but same could be said about Wisdom. Wisdom is going to do his best work off the puck and around the net. NAK was a legitimate threat on the puck. He even played the halfwall on the PP. Wisdom is a net-front guy.

This exchange is looking a little semantical. I'm not sure if you're interpreting what I'm saying as being that I don't think NAK is skilled. It's not. I'm saying he wasn't drafted as a "skill guy" in the sense that he wasn't taken with the impression of having the skills/expectation to become a top-6 scoring winger, which is what I think of when I think "skill guy".

Simply put... I like the skill that these two players bring to their 3-zone play driving base, not the other way around. I think NAK makes an excellent bottom-6 winger for us, with the tools to play up the lineup in pinches because of his possession play and dangerous shot but not because of his playmaking or offensive IQ.

Comparing NAK and Zayde though... The similarities are striking, and the differences aren't notable when compared to the whole of it. Zayde has a pretty nice shot too, maybe not quite as good, but NAK would've had to settle for the netfront too if he was competing with Wright for halfwall. Wright is a "skill guy", not NAK or Wisdom.

 

[Striiker]

NAK was absolutely a "skill guy" in Junior. He was a top pick in the Q draft and the best '96 from Quebec. I wouldn't have spent years campaigning for him if he weren't. He didn't have top line upside, but there was a chance he could be a 2nd liner. He was an entry machine with the ability to go end to end and could carry the puck at will. He had a killer one-time shot on the powerplay as well. Part of the reason I spent three years saying they should try him on the PP in LV. This assertion that he was some grinder that worked his way into an NHLer is simply not true. He always had a lot of raw talent. The Flyers just did their best to hid it.

Maybe you should defer to the people who actually watch prospects, FLYguy.

 

[FLYguy3911]

This exchange is looking a little semantical. I'm not sure if you're interpreting what I'm saying as being that I don't think NAK is skilled. It's not. I'm saying he wasn't drafted as a "skill guy" in the sense that he wasn't taken with the impression of having the skills/expectation to become a top-6 scoring winger, which is what I think of when I think "skill guy".

Simply put... I like the skill that these two players bring to their 3-zone play driving base, not the other way around. I think NAK makes an excellent bottom-6 winger for us, with the tools to play up the lineup in pinches because of his possession play and dangerous shot but not because of his playmaking or offensive IQ.

Comparing NAK and Zayde though... The similarities are striking, and the differences aren't notable when compared to the whole of it. Zayde has a pretty nice shot too, maybe not quite as good, but NAK would've had to settle for the netfront too if he was competing with Wright for halfwall. Wright is a "skill guy", not NAK or Wisdom.

And I think you're equating me saying he was a skilled guy to saying he had top 6 upside. How many mid-second rounders have true top 6 upside? Not many. He had middle six upside and he provided that kind of value this year. I don't think Wisdom has that kind of upside because I don't think he is skilled as NAK is/was. You can disagree with that if you like, but I think you are comparing what NAK is in the NHL to what Wisdom is in the OHL and its not an apples-to-apples comparison. I think Wisdom has a reasonable chance at becoming an NHL player as a 10/11/12th forward and that would be a fantastic outcome for a 4th round pick. Without a high end skill package a lot has to go right for that to happen. I would estimate his ~90% outcome as a third liner which is essentially what NAK is right now.

Wright isn't just a skill guy. He is a world class player and super prospect. Martin Chromiak is a skill guy and he was used as such even though Shane Wright is also a RH shot. Wisdom is a 5'10 210 pound bowling ball. He knows his game. The team knew his game. He works best in the high traffic areas so that's where he played most of the time. You're not going to use him on the halfwall at any point. He's the ultimate low maintenance player.

I don't want to undersell Wisdom's skill level, because I do think he is fairly skilled, but I don't think people ever really truly appreciated NAK's talent level.

 

[Striiker]

Comparing Wisdom to a guy who cleared waivers and wasn't even as good enough to earn a job over Stewart is pretty harsh, if you ask me.

The poor guy just got drafted and he’s already a bust like NAK? Come on. Give him a chance.

 

[Appleyard]

Seems very quick for a 4th rounder... sheesh.

 

[Striiker]

Well that was fast

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Good stuff. Hope he keeps up the good work and gets better .

 

[Magua]

If I had the time right now, I’d love to look at historical signing dates for non-1st round Flyers. Even 2nd rounders often wait months to a year to sign. The only thing I can imagine is from a human perspective giving Wisdom his bonus money. Good for him, it’s just unusual.

 

[Curufinwe]

If I had the time right now, I’d love to look at historical signing dates for non-1st round Flyers. Even 2nd rounders often wait months to a year to sign. The only thing I can imagine is from a human perspective giving Wisdom his bonus money. Good for him, it’s just unusual.

Laberge was signed right away. Hopefully this works out better.

These are all the skaters signed from the CHL.

2011
1) Couturier 9/26/11
3) Cousins 3/27/13

2012
1) Laughton 8/12/12
4) Leier 9/9/13

2013
1) Morin 9/19/13
3) Goulbourne 3/3/15

2014
1) Sanheim 8/5/14
2) NAK 8/5/14
6) Fazleev 5/28/15

2015
1) Provorov 7/3/15
1) Konecny 7/16/15


2016
1) Rubtsov 3/2/17
2) Laberge 7/14/16
3) Twarynski 3/11/18
4) Bunnaman 4/21/17

2017
1) Patrick 7/1/17
1) Frost 8/3/17
2) Ratcliffe 8/3/17
4) Strome 3/15/18
4) Sushko 3/2/18

2018
5) Wylie 3/10/20

2020
4) Wisdom 10/12/20

 

[Appleyard]

If I had the time right now, I’d love to look at historical signing dates for non-1st round Flyers. Even 2nd rounders often wait months to a year to sign. The only thing I can imagine is from a human perspective giving Wisdom his bonus money. Good for him, it’s just unusual.

Yeh. I thought similar.
~80-90k is a lot... especially given background. And tough times right now.

 

[ponder719]

The Flyers have historically tried to do right by their people (more or less, with a few glaringly obvious counterexamples like Roger Neilson), so this might just be more of the same.

 

[Larry44]

The Flyers have historically tried to do right by their people (more or less, with a few glaringly obvious counterexamples like Roger Neilson), so this might just be more of the same.

It will give his family some financial breathing room, with two sons in the OHL, to support them both and catch some games. Great move.

 

[deadhead]

The Flyers have historically tried to do right by their people (more or less, with a few glaringly obvious counterexamples like Roger Neilson), so this might just be more of the same.

Building good will can help down the road, not with every player, but many do appreciate the organization doing right by them.

 

[Striiker]

If I had the time right now, I’d love to look at historical signing dates for non-1st round Flyers. Even 2nd rounders often wait months to a year to sign. The only thing I can imagine is from a human perspective giving Wisdom his bonus money. Good for him, it’s just unusual.

Here's a handful of guys. I'm sure I forgot a few but oh well. You're not paying me enough to be thorough.

NAK - 2nd round - drafted Jun 28 2014 - signed Oct 2 2014 - 96 days
Ratcliffe - 2nd round - drafted Jun 24 2017 - signed Aug 3 2017 - 40 days
Laberge - 2nd round - drafted Jun 25 2016 - signed Jul 14 2016 - 19 days
Hart - 2nd round - drafted Jun 25 2016 - signed Oct 2 2016 - 38 days
Twarynski - 3rd round - drafted Jun 25 2016 - signed Mar 11 2018 - 624 days
Strome - 4th round - drafted Jun 24 2017 - signed Mar 15 2018 - 264 days
Sushko - 4th round - drafted Jun 24 2017 - signed May 13 2018 - 323 days
Vorobyev - 4th round - drafted Jun 27 2015 - signed Apr 27 2017 - 670 days
Bunnaman - 4th round - drafted Jun 25 2016 - signed Apr 21 2017 - 300 days
Wylie - 5th round - drafted Jun 23 2018 - signed Mar 10 2020 - 626 days
Kase - 5th round - drafted Jun 27 2015 - signed May 4 2018 - 1042 days
Fazleev - 6th round - drafted Jun 28 2014 - signed May 28 2015 - 334 days

Wisdom - 4th round - drafted Oct 7 2020 - signed Oct 12 2020 - 5 days

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Happy for the kid. In the videos I watched of Wisdom, he looked like he had better offensive talent than I expected. Seems like one of those guys who might keep getting better. July birthday, as well, so young for his draft class.

 

[pit]

The only thing I can imagine is from a human perspective giving Wisdom his bonus money. Good for him, it’s just unusual.

It's good from a human perspective but also a development one. Any financial problems at home should be alleviated to some degree. With those reduced, it will let him focus on hockey and developing his game.

 

[FLYguy3911]

It's good from a human perspective but also a development one. Any financial problems at home should be alleviated to some degree. With those reduced, it will let him focus on hockey and developing his game.

Yup. Also he was 5'9 225 playing Minor Midget (absolute UNIT), so having money to properly diet goes a long way too.

 

[Tripod]

This is a great move on the human level.

 

[Striiker]

Yup. Also he was 5'9 225 playing Minor Midget (absolute UNIT), so having money to properly diet goes a long way too.

He's dummy thicc

 

[Shrike]

Great organizations have character. It’s why they are great. This is a guy that the team can trust. His family needed to see some return on their honest struggle and he will be a flyer for life.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Building good will can help down the road, not with every player, but many do appreciate the organization doing right by them.

On the flipside, we have Mark Friedman.

 

[deadhead]

On the flipside, we have Mark Friedman.

Dumoulin spent three years in the AHL, after 3 years of college, didn't seem to end his career.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Dumoulin spent three years in the AHL, after 3 years of college, didn't seem to end his career.

 

[Swic21]

Seems very quick for a 4th rounder... sheesh.

Too fast.