Prospect Info: Round 1, Pick 13: Jett Luchanko, C, Guelph (OHL) - 7/6 Upd: Signed 3yr ELC

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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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That team might have made the playoffs with good goal tending, but the handwriting was on the wall.
16th in xGF%, 20th HDCF%. -18 on STs, 20th in xGA/60 on the PK, 32nd in Sv%.

JVR (31), G (33), Voracek (31), Couts (28), Hayes (28), Laughton (26), Raffl (32)
Farabee (20), TK (23), Lindblom (24), NAK (24), Patrick (22), Bunnaman (22), Allison (23)

Ghost (27), Gustafsson (28), Braun (33)
Provorov (24), Sanheim (24), Myers (24), Hagg (25), Morin (25)

Elliott (30)
Hart (22)

Keeping Ghost and Voracek would have made little difference going forward.
Any sane FO looking at that roster and that season would have started a rebuild.
I agree that they would have made the playoffs with decent goaltending instead of by far league worst goaltending.

And I also agree the writing was on the wall and they should have started a rebuild after that season.

I suspect Chuck knew based on his answers in press conferences, where he often mentioned the need to get talent through the draft.

But he was stymied by Dave Scott, who expected that team to make the playoffs and win now each year.

When your boss orders you to do something, you have to try to follow those orders or you're out of a job.
 

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
3,187
1,462
I agree that they would have made the playoffs with decent goaltending instead of by far league worst goaltending.

And I also agree the writing was on the wall and they should have started a rebuild after that season.

I suspect Chuck knew based on his answers in press conferences, where he often mentioned the need to get talent through the draft.

But he was stymied by Dave Scott, who expected that team to make the playoffs and win now each year.

When your boss orders you to do something, you have to try to follow those orders or you're out of a job.
Chuck did such a bad job of trying to win. Horrendous.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,793
21,832
I hope I am wrong but man I get "3rd line center who scores 30 points a game" vibes from this guy.
He looked fine in the rookie game with Desnoyers and Michkov, not as good when Michkov was replaced with Miller for some reason. :D

I'd like to see that line for the first couple exhibition games just to get a feel for them against quasi-NHL talent.

After the 4th game, I think the AHL players will go to LHV and they'll play Michkov with his probable regular season line.

Luchanko, Bonk and Barkey will probably stay throughout camp before being sent back to the CHL.
I don't think Briere will want to rush them for a number of reasons:
1) don't want to put them in over their heads
2) want to have a long look at other players who are closer to NHL, Rizzo, Abols at center, Brink, Lycksell, Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Avon at wing, Drysdale, Attard at RHD. If you keep them, it has to be to play them, blocking other prospects (who would get shots when inevitable injuries occur).
3) no urgency, the timetable is more like 2026 or 2027.

So camp for them is about getting a taste of NHL action while evaluating how far away they are.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,725
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Chuck did such a bad job of trying to win. Horrendous.
Chuck also had almost unfathomably bad luck.

In his first full season as GM, 2019/20 he takes them from a 22nd in the NHL finish to a 6th in the NHL finish. Wins their first playoff round in 8 years.

But had their season, and their momentum, halted by COVID.

A season that also saw a promising young player in Oskar Lindblom, who I think was leading the team in goals at the time, find out he has cancer (and is never the same).

And their prized supposed top prospect in inherited #2 overall pick Nolan Patrick miss the entire season with a migraine issue.

Then before the following season, 2020/21, his first-pair defensive acquisition in Niskanen, who bolstered the D, decides unexpectedly to retire at age 34. Most likely because he didn't want to deal with all of the COVID stuff.

Their young #1 goalie, who is supposed to be a budding star in Hart, falls apart with an .877 save % (we probably now know why -- he found out about the legal issues).

Their prized 22 year old #2 overall pick in Patrick, back from the migraine issue, scores 9 points in 52 games and is a -30 while guys like Makar and Heiskanen look like superstars.

And it turns out that supposed young gem Phil Myers can't play.

Then we get to 2021/22. They trade Patrick for Ryan Ellis, who has been top pairing D his whole career. He plays 4 games, claims injury, and never plays again.

Their best player and #1 C in Couturier gets hurt and can only play 29 games.

Their #2 C in Hayes gets hurt and can only play 48 games, plus is dealing with the tragic death of his brother.

Meanwhile, the league has implemented an unprecedented flat cap because of COVID which constrains teams from making signing and acquisitions in the manner they could before, and the $7M per year JVR contract he was saddled with becomes even more burdensome.

It starts to become apparent that their inherited #7 overall pick in Provorov, who was supposed to be a future Norris contender, isn't that good and was the wrong pick by the prior regime.

It also starts to become apparent that other supposed top young prospects they inherited, like Frost and Ratcliffe, aren't very good.

Dave Scott, however, makes it clear he expects the team to turn it around and make the playoffs the following season.

So we get to 22/23. Their #1 C Couturier has a botched surgery in the summer and has to miss the entire season after only being able to play 29 games the season prior.

Again, they can't just snap their fingers and replace him, because they find out about the need for a 2nd surgery right before camp (and the flat cap adds to the difficulty in replacing him).

Their leading goal scorer from the prior season, Atkinson, ultimately has to have surgery and also misses the entire season.

Their $7M burden JVR only scores 29 points in 61 games.

Provorov stinks and is a full-fledged locker room problem.

I mean, Chuck wasn't able to fix the problems, it seemed nothing he tried worked out except for Niskanen, Braun, Seeler, and Tippett, but he also had to deal with an unreal amount of bad luck.

The best part of his tenure appears to be drafting, but he doesn't get to reap the benefits of that because it takes time; instead he suffered from the many drafting mistakes of the prior regime.
 

CanuckistanFlyerfan

Registered User
May 10, 2005
2,768
1,349
The best part of his tenure appears to be drafting, but he doesn't get to reap the benefits of that because it takes time; instead he suffered from the many drafting mistakes of the prior regime.

Fletchers drafting looks good because in comparison of his trades and signings, it is. But there's really nothing wow in his picks, other than wow, he doesn't want to play for the Flyers!

York/Brink/Andrae/Foerster/Tuomaala are all good or decent, but nothing spectacular.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
129,172
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Armored Train
Chuck also had almost unfathomably bad luck.

In his first full season as GM, 2019/20 he takes them from a 22nd in the NHL finish to a 6th in the NHL finish. Wins their first playoff round in 8 years.

But had their season, and their momentum, halted by COVID.

A season that also saw a promising young player in Oskar Lindblom, who I think was leading the team in goals at the time, find out he has cancer (and is never the same).

And their prized supposed top prospect in inherited #2 overall pick Nolan Patrick miss the entire season with a migraine issue.

Then before the following season, 2020/21, his first-pair defensive acquisition in Niskanen, who bolstered the D, decides unexpectedly to retire at age 34. Most likely because he didn't want to deal with all of the COVID stuff.

Their young #1 goalie, who is supposed to be a budding star in Hart, falls apart with an .877 save % (we probably now know why -- he found out about the legal issues).

Their prized 22 year old #2 overall pick in Patrick, back from the migraine issue, scores 9 points in 52 games and is a -30 while guys like Makar and Heiskanen look like superstars.

And it turns out that supposed young gem Phil Myers can't play.

Then we get to 2021/22. They trade Patrick for Ryan Ellis, who has been top pairing D his whole career. He plays 4 games, claims injury, and never plays again.

Their best player and #1 C in Couturier gets hurt and can only play 29 games.

Their #2 C in Hayes gets hurt and can only play 48 games, plus is dealing with the tragic death of his brother.

Meanwhile, the league has implemented an unprecedented flat cap because of COVID which constrains teams from making signing and acquisitions in the manner they could before, and the $7M per year JVR contract he was saddled with becomes even more burdensome.

It starts to become apparent that their inherited #7 overall pick in Provorov, who was supposed to be a future Norris contender, isn't that good and was the wrong pick by the prior regime.

It also starts to become apparent that other supposed top young prospects they inherited, like Frost and Ratcliffe, aren't very good.

Dave Scott, however, makes it clear he expects the team to turn it around and make the playoffs the following season.

So we get to 22/23. Their #1 C Couturier has a botched surgery in the summer and has to miss the entire season after only being able to play 29 games the season prior.

Again, they can't just snap their fingers and replace him, because they find out about the need for a 2nd surgery right before camp (and the flat cap adds to the difficulty in replacing him).

Their leading goal scorer from the prior season, Atkinson, ultimately has to have surgery and also misses the entire season.

Their $7M burden JVR only scores 29 points in 61 games.

Provorov stinks and is a full-fledged locker room problem.

I mean, Chuck wasn't able to fix the problems, it seemed nothing he tried worked out except for Niskanen, Braun, Seeler, and Tippett, but he also had to deal with an unreal amount of bad luck.

The best part of his tenure appears to be drafting, but he doesn't get to reap the benefits of that because it takes time; instead he suffered from the many drafting mistakes of the prior regime.

Making a series of nonstop terrible moves isn't bad luck, it's incompetence.

Also worth pointing out again how the Venn diagram between "lucky teams" and "well managed teams" is almost one circle. You largely make your own luck. The occasional moves going sideways? That's one thing. Nearly every move going sideways year after year? That's not luck.
 

JojoTheWhale

Lemme unload.
May 22, 2008
34,800
108,447
The 19-20 team's momentum wasn't killed by COVID. They looked great in the Round Robin. Well, minus Niskanen, who understandably looked like he would rather be anywhere else.

It died when the Head Coach Fletcher gave $25MM changed their entire style of play because he decided it couldn't work anymore. The man saw Claude Julien and shut down.
 

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
3,187
1,462
Chuck also had almost unfathomably bad luck.

In his first full season as GM, 2019/20 he takes them from a 22nd in the NHL finish to a 6th in the NHL finish. Wins their first playoff round in 8 years.

But had their season, and their momentum, halted by COVID.

A season that also saw a promising young player in Oskar Lindblom, who I think was leading the team in goals at the time, find out he has cancer (and is never the same).

And their prized supposed top prospect in inherited #2 overall pick Nolan Patrick miss the entire season with a migraine issue.

Then before the following season, 2020/21, his first-pair defensive acquisition in Niskanen, who bolstered the D, decides unexpectedly to retire at age 34. Most likely because he didn't want to deal with all of the COVID stuff.

Their young #1 goalie, who is supposed to be a budding star in Hart, falls apart with an .877 save % (we probably now know why -- he found out about the legal issues).

Their prized 22 year old #2 overall pick in Patrick, back from the migraine issue, scores 9 points in 52 games and is a -30 while guys like Makar and Heiskanen look like superstars.

And it turns out that supposed young gem Phil Myers can't play.

Then we get to 2021/22. They trade Patrick for Ryan Ellis, who has been top pairing D his whole career. He plays 4 games, claims injury, and never plays again.

Their best player and #1 C in Couturier gets hurt and can only play 29 games.

Their #2 C in Hayes gets hurt and can only play 48 games, plus is dealing with the tragic death of his brother.

Meanwhile, the league has implemented an unprecedented flat cap because of COVID which constrains teams from making signing and acquisitions in the manner they could before, and the $7M per year JVR contract he was saddled with becomes even more burdensome.

It starts to become apparent that their inherited #7 overall pick in Provorov, who was supposed to be a future Norris contender, isn't that good and was the wrong pick by the prior regime.

It also starts to become apparent that other supposed top young prospects they inherited, like Frost and Ratcliffe, aren't very good.

Dave Scott, however, makes it clear he expects the team to turn it around and make the playoffs the following season.

So we get to 22/23. Their #1 C Couturier has a botched surgery in the summer and has to miss the entire season after only being able to play 29 games the season prior.

Again, they can't just snap their fingers and replace him, because they find out about the need for a 2nd surgery right before camp (and the flat cap adds to the difficulty in replacing him).

Their leading goal scorer from the prior season, Atkinson, ultimately has to have surgery and also misses the entire season.

Their $7M burden JVR only scores 29 points in 61 games.

Provorov stinks and is a full-fledged locker room problem.

I mean, Chuck wasn't able to fix the problems, it seemed nothing he tried worked out except for Niskanen, Braun, Seeler, and Tippett, but he also had to deal with an unreal amount of bad luck.

The best part of his tenure appears to be drafting, but he doesn't get to reap the benefits of that because it takes time; instead he suffered from the many drafting mistakes of the prior regime.
Bottom line is he sucked. His drafting is not all that hot. Nothing special.

Nothing from 2021 and 2022 so far.
1 player from 2020
1 and p[ossibly 2 from 2019
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,725
16,503
Fletchers drafting looks good because in comparison of his trades and signings, it is. But there's really nothing wow in his picks, other than wow, he doesn't want to play for the Flyers!

York/Brink/Andrae/Foerster/Tuomaala are all good or decent, but nothing spectacular.
Don't forget Cutter, who looks like an excellent prospect at 5th overall.

Now, I have no clue if Chuck had any involvement in Cutter's decision to force a trade. It officially happened after Chuck was gone. And Cutter certainly intimated at the time of the draft he was "born to be a Flyer," so there were no warning signs.

He had enough value where the next front office was able to turn him into a previous 6th overall pick in Drysdale plus a 2nd.

Bump and McDonald are looking like potential late round hits, as well.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,793
21,832
To be fair to Chuck/Scott, if Patrick pans out and Lindblom doesn't get cancer and Hart isn't an alleged rapist, they're probably a solid PO team for a couple years before the core ages out as it did.

Probably not top 8, but close to that group.

But given what actually happened, the Giroux trade was a great move, to be deep sixed by the Risto and TDA moves.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,725
16,503
The 19-20 team's momentum wasn't killed by COVID. They looked great in the Round Robin. Well, minus Niskanen, who understandably looked like he would rather be anywhere else.

It died when the Head Coach Fletcher gave $25MM changed their entire style of play because he decided it couldn't work anymore. The man saw Claude Julien and shut down.
It absolutely killed their momentum. They were the hottest team in hockey when the season got paused. They came back in the bubble and, sure, they looked good in the round-robin, but when things got serious they weren't the same team.

Konecny went from their leading scorer, 61 points in 66 games in the regular season, to 0 goals 7 assists in 16 games in the bubble. He didn't look like the same player, Much slower.

Giroux, 1 goal 7 assists in 16 games in the bubble.

Niskanen was way off, and he was crucial to their regular season success.

Couturier wasn't the same player.

JVR was a wreck.

In general the team looked slow and out of game shape.

They certainly didn't have the anticipation and timing they had when they were clicking on all cylinders before Covid.

Everyone loves to blame the coach, but it took the team multiple months to get their forechecking game and timing going in the regular season,

and then with 5 months off they were rusty and had lost their speed, rhythm, timing, and execution once the game speed ramped up after the round robin. It's not an easy system to play, and you'll get burned if you're not in game shape.
 

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
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To be fair to Chuck/Scott, if Patrick pans out and Lindblom doesn't get cancer and Hart isn't an alleged rapist, they're probably a solid PO team for a couple years before the core ages out as it did.

Probably not top 8, but close to that group.

But given what actually happened, the Giroux trade was a great move, to be deep sixed by the Risto and TDA moves.
With a mandate to win those are the moves you make?
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
129,172
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Armored Train
To be fair to Chuck/Scott, if Patrick pans out and Lindblom doesn't get cancer and Hart isn't an alleged rapist, they're probably a solid PO team for a couple years before the core ages out as it did.

Probably not top 8, but close to that group.

But given what actually happened, the Giroux trade was a great move, to be deep sixed by the Risto and TDA moves.

"They could have maybe been average" isn't the defense you think it is.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Armored Train
It absolutely killed their momentum. They were the hottest team in hockey when the season got paused. They came back in the bubble and, sure, they looked good in the round-robin, but when things got serious they weren't the same team.

Konecny went from their leading scorer, 61 points in 66 games in the regular season, to 0 goals 7 assists in 16 games in the bubble. He didn't look like the same player, Much slower.

Giroux, 1 goal 7 assists in 16 games in the bubble.

Niskanen was way off, and he was crucial to their regular season success.

Couturier wasn't the same player.

JVR was a wreck.

In general the team looked slow and out of game shape.

They certainly didn't have the anticipation and timing they had when they were clicking on all cylinders before Covid.

Everyone loves to blame the coach, but it took the team multiple months to get their forechecking game and timing going in the regular season,

and then with 5 months off they were rusty and had lost their speed, rhythm, timing, and execution once the game speed ramped up after the round robin. It's not an easy system to play, and you'll get burned if you're not in game shape.

They weren't the same team because AV completely changed their system, in line with every coach who this team has hired. Maximum defense. Minimal offensive risk.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Armored Train
You ever work for an idiot?
At some point you stop talking to the wall and send out your resume.

Ah yeah nothing helps you get another job like doing such horrendously shitty work that you tank your company.

How about this: Fletcher was actually the idiot. Scott's big flaw was being too ignorant to realize Fletcher is a massive idiot, along with the advisors. Scott asked Fletcher to make the team good and gave him the money to do so, then stayed out of the way. Fletcher failed. That is not Scott's fault. His fault is letting it continue for too long.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,947
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1726659138019.gif


so this is the new Fletcher thread…
 
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