Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[joshjull]

That is exactly what I said..... if taken completely out of context

What I originally said and what I clarified in half a dozen posts and i can see it is still being misinterpreted is that Mitts should be extended BEFORE given a regular spot between Tuch and Skinner *if* Thompson (and later Cozens) are healthy and playing well*.

My initial post did not include the *starred* disclaimer, but within the context of the discussion where everyone was just throwing out line ideas, it was assumed that both players were healthy and continuing their upward swing, and I clarified that point in multiple posts.

My personal position has always been to re-sign Mitts. This particular discussion started and was ONLY about replacing a healthy, effective 94 point Tage with Mitts before signing Mitts and having him go off and price himself out of the Sabres cap situation(currently a real situation). You, as always, ignored the general spirit of the post to focus on what the post was never about, which was misconstrued as "keep Mitts on the third line no matter what to keep is contract low", which was just disingenuous misrepresentation of the entire discussion.

If you want to go back and waste your day searching for the entire conversation to post things out of context for your "gotcha" moment, (like you always do), be sure to include the post that started it all where it says "SIGN Mitts before the season starts if the plan is to have him be the #1 center". Also, please include the multiple posts that say "if tage is injured or not playing well, then casey should be the first player to be given 1st line center, regardless of contract status".

Again, no one had a problem with you suggesting they should sign Mitts in the offseason if they planned to use him as the #1 center between Skinner/Tuch. They had an issue with you frequently bringing up his contract status and its cap implications in debates about lineups and who should be top 6 centers.


Your post I originally quoted also lamented about cap space and referenced your talking points about Mitts. Which is funny because your talking points were all about him playing on the #1 line and having his numbers ”inflated“ by Skinner/Tuch. Thus leading to bigger contract. You weren’t an advocate for extending him outside of that context. Not that you were against it, just that the urgency came from his possible use as the #1 center.

So it’s a bit much to see you acting as if you expected what’s happening right now with Mitts and getting on Adams. You clearly didn’t expect this since you expected Mitts‘s strong numbers coming from who he played with (getting “inflated” if you will). As opposed to him being the driving force from the start of the season as the 3rd line center and doing well with various wingers.

I think your attacks on Adams over Mitts contract situation in this thread have been off the mark. There was never any chance he would sign an extension with 5 or 6mil AAV for two reasons.

1) Mitt’s camp would never agree to it
2) Adams can’t make him sign it.

Adams could have extended him but it would cost more than you allowing for. I expect he eventually extends for somewhere in the 7-8mil range.

 

[Irie]

Again, no one had a problem with you suggesting they should sign Mitts in the offseason if they planned to use him as the #1 center between Skinner/Tuch. They had an issue with you frequently bringing up his contract status and its cap implications in debates about lineups and who should be top 6 centers.


Your post I originally quoted also lamented about cap space and referenced your talking points about Mitts. Which is funny because your talking points were all about him playing on the #1 line and having his numbers ”inflated“ by Skinner/Tuch. Thus leading to bigger contract. You weren’t an advocate for extending him outside of that context. Not that you were against it, just that the urgency came from his possible use as the #1 center.

So it’s a bit much to see you acting as if you expected what’s happening right now with Mitts and getting on Adams. You clearly didn’t expect this since you expected Mitts‘s strong numbers coming from who he played with (getting “inflated” if you will). As opposed to him being the driving force from the start of the season as the 3rd line center and doing well with various wingers.

I think your attacks on Adams over Mitts contract situation in this thread have been off the mark. There was never any chance he would sign an extension with 5 or 6mil AAV for two reasons.

1) Mitt’s camp would never agree to it
2) Adams can’t make him sign it.

Adams could have extended him but it would cost more than you allowing for. I expect he eventually extends for somewhere in the 7-8mil range.

The context of that discussion was cap issues moving forward, so the points were cap related. As far as I recall, I did not make a claim one way or another in the cap related discussion about Mitts value, but you are assuming I believed something that was not stated.

If you want to see my position on Mitts and what I felt his future would be prior to this season, look at my posts in the main forum and the heavy debates there, or my defense of Mitts in several game day threads and GBU threads from last winter.

In regards to Adams not prioritizing signing Mitts this offseason.... calling them attacks is a bit extreme. I would call it disappointment on my part when it didn't happen, and yes, I did foresee Mitts getting 60-70 or more points this season as I expected him to get heavy top six minutes over the course of the season, (I was just against replacing Tage or Cozens with him before he was signed if everyone is healthy and playing well). For the record, I did not anticipate him to be as physically mature on the ice as he has been, I figured that would be at least a couple more years away, and I would be lying if I said there was not some concern it would never materialize - that has been the biggest surprise for me.

As for your take, saying there was zero chance Mitts would have possibly signed for 5.5 last summer, it is pure speculation on your part, but you are acting like it is fact. Unless you heard that directly from him, then you can not know that.

If Adams had given Mitts the Cozen's deal this offseason, Adams would have been roasted on the main boards by everyone and roasted on this board by 95% of posters as an idiot. So it may be safe to say that Mitt's value was likely below 7M.

This is the NHL, not the NFL. Contracts are guaranteed. Players take discounts to get signed early for financial security. There is always the possibility Mitts blows out a knee in the preseason and misses the entire year, and then has to sign a low end prove it contract all over again. A 5x5.5 or 6x5.5 contract and a guaranteed 33 million is nothing to sneeze at for a guy like Casey in the position he was in last summer.

Add the fact that the upcoming cap crunch is real and Mitts might take a bit of a discount to stay with this team that he seems to really fit in well with, as there is no way that he wasn't slightly starting to feel the pressure that he might be becoming close to expendable (prior to this season).

As to the situation now, as I said earlier, that 5.5 is no longer an option, and I think the Cozens/Tage deals are probably the realistic middle ground between the team and the Mitts camp.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

For the love of God sign Kane. Bring up Kulich. Benson stays and get rid of the useless players.

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Peterka-Mittelstadt-Kane
Kulich-Cozens-Quinn/Benson
Greenway and the 2 least useless players

 

[DapperCam]

Kind of an ugly roster tonight for the forwards. Okposo, Jost, Rousek, Olofsson, and Girgensons on the ice a lot.

If you had to predict how much this bottom 6 scores 5v5 in an entire season, what would you guess?

Olofsson - Krebs? - Rousek
Girgensons - Jost - Okposo

^ That is ugly

 

[BFLO]

If we were to cut Okposo tomorrow. Would he ever make it to 1000 games played?

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

For the love of God sign Kane. Bring up Kulich. Benson stays and get rid of the useless players.

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Peterka-Mittelstadt-Kane
Kulich-Cozens-Quinn/Benson
Greenway and the 2 least useless players

But the room, the room. We gotta have Okposo charity case at $2.5 M

 

[Snippit]

Still frustrates me we brought back Okposo. That signing showed a lack of seriousness about winning.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Naming his C is another idiotic decision by our brain trust. Can't scratch him because of "optics". So you now are forced to play one of your non top 12 forwards game in game out.same with assistant captain girgensons. Great to have 2 leaders who have won jack shit their entire careers. They should relinquish their letters and accept waivers. The C is clearly going to Dahlin next and can't wait.

 

[Bufbro]

Naming his C is another idiotic decision by our brain trust. Can't scratch him because of "optics". So you now are forced to play one of your non top 12 forwards game in game out.same with assistant captain girgensons. Great to have 2 leaders who have won jack shit their entire careers. They should relinquish their letters and accept waivers. The C is clearly going to Dahlin next and can't wait.

Not really their fault they have won anything, but otherwise agree

 

[TheStorm]

Still frustrates me we brought back Okposo. That signing showed a lack of seriousness about winning.

Exactly. Just a baffling decision that makes almost no sense. You think the team would've been itching to get rid of him

 

[toddkaz]

 

[oldgoalie]

think about it. someone is getting paid good money to coach this abortion they call a "power play".

 

[Dirty Dog]

Who are we playing instead of okposo if he sits? The reason he is getting so much playing time is the roster issues with forwards 7-9 and injuries.

We have Tuch, skinner, Thompson, mitts, greenway, Peterka in the top 6. While they aren’t fully clicking, they are fine. Girgs, Jost, and Okposo are whatever as a 4th line. Definitely a line we can upgrade at the trade deadline or the off-season, but whatever for now.

But elsewhere we have issues. Cozens is struggling. Rousek, olofsson, and krebs have offered very little if anything. Biro couldnt stay healthy. Savoie wasn’t ready. Benson got hurt and not sure if he was ready. You cannot run an NHL team when there are only 10 forwards you trust with ice time.

I think we are getting very close to having to call up Kulich and Rosen to fill those two spots due to a lack of literally any other option in the organization


————-

And then on defense and goaltending they have one too many. They will need to make decisions on both of those groups. RJ is ready but seems like he doesn’t have a spot. Let him continue to play in Rochester and he can get plenty of time filling in for injuries this year and will replace EJ on the roster next year.

And then for the love of god make a decision on goaltending when Comrie comes back. Continuing to not make a decision is to a good decision

 

[toddkaz]

Who are we playing instead of okposo if he sits? The reason he is getting so much playing time is the roster issues with forwards 7-9 and injuries.

We have Tuch, skinner, Thompson, mitts, greenway, Peterka in the top 6. While they aren’t fully clicking, they are fine. Girgs, Jost, and Okposo are whatever as a 4th line. Definitely a line we can upgrade at the trade deadline or the off-season, but whatever for now.

But elsewhere we have issues. Cozens is struggling. Rousek, olofsson, and krebs have offered very little if anything. Biro couldnt stay healthy. Savoie wasn’t ready. Benson got hurt and not sure if he was ready. You cannot run an NHL team when there are only 10 forwards you trust with ice time.

I think we are getting very close to having to call up Kulich and Rosen to fill those two spots due to a lack of literally any other option in the organization

Okposo 16:21 Ice time and plays PP2. Who else we gonna play? Anyone...That aside Adams didn't do his job in the off season if Okposo is playing 16:21 and power play.

There is lots of capable 4th line players that can be traded for or could have been signed.

Same holes in this roster since he was hired.

 

[sabresfan129103]

think about it. someone is getting paid good money to coach this abortion they call a "power play".

They refuse to adapt. Its so frustrating seeing them try the same thing for the 100th time and it not work. Funny enough though the PP unit that seemed to have the most success last night was the 2nd unit with the less skilled guys because they actually did a dump and chase and were able to gain possession in the offensive zone.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

You can argue about OK with PP time but he has a valid role, that he and Girgs perform more than adequately. Last season they consistently suppressed shots and flipped ice as they're doing again.

Since they can't rag on Mitts or Joki, I guess the board's angst has migrated to the matchup line

 

[Dirty Dog]

Okposo 16:21 Ice time and plays PP2. Who else we gonna play? Anyone...That aside Adams didn't do his job in the off season if Okposo is playing 16:21 and power play.

There is lots of capable 4th line players that can be traded for or could have been signed.

Same holes in this roster since he was hired.

Anyone is not a good answer.

And top 9 scoring was not an issue last year.

I know you like to always complain about coaching and the front office, but just saying stuff doesn’t make it so

 

[BuffaloGooner]

You can argue about OK with PP time but he has a valid role, that he and Girgs perform more than adequately. Last season they consistently suppressed shots and flipped ice as they're doing again.

Since they can't rag on Mitts or Joki, I guess the board's angst has migrated to the matchup line

Girgensons and Okposo are not even close to what they were even last season man

 

[Old Navy Goat]

The

Girgensons and Okposo are not even close to what they were even last season man

They're not the biggest problem and haven't been holding the team back. I'd replace OK on the pp and pk but they've been very effective 5 on 5

 

[Sabre the Win]

If Cozens production was all because of Quinn he doesn't deserve the 7 million he signed for. That should goto Quinn. Drivers deserve the money, passengers who take advantage of the ride share program should be paid less and not considered core.

I'm sorry Cozens but do better. You are quickly climbing whipping boy status because you actually deserve it.

 

[toddkaz]

The

They're not the biggest problem and haven't been holding the team back. I'd replace OK on the pp and pk but they've been very effective 5 on 5

Okposo getting 16 minutes a game, power play time and penalty kill time while being the captain and this team playing lifeless is an issue more about the coaching staff than Okposo.

That being said, if you watch Okposo's play then you would see he is part of the problem. Specifically watch the last game you can see the play dying on Okposo's stick numerous times and one of the goals scored against he was too slow to reach the pass.

The team is relying on someone in all faucets of the game that probably should have retired last season.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

They should sign him. At least he goes to the net

 

[Dirty Dog]

Okposo getting 16 minutes a game, power play time and penalty kill time while being the captain and this team playing lifeless is an issue more about the coaching staff than Okposo.

That being said, if you watch Okposo's play then you would see he is part of the problem. Specifically watch the last game you can see the play dying on Okposo's stick numerous times and one of the goals scored against he was too slow to reach the pass.

The team is relying on someone in all faucets of the game that probably should have retired last season.

The team was down to 9 forwards they trust because of injuries and payers underperforming. Why are you complaining about other players necessarily getting increased ice time. This was not happening when the team was healthier. Before the injuries (and the pp still playing awful), okposo was getting zero minutes of PP time.

Why are you attributing this to coaching rather than being essentially down to 9 forwards? It is a bizarre complaint to be obsessed with

 

[toddkaz]

The team was down to 9 forwards they trust because of injuries and payers underperforming. Why are you complaining about other players necessarily getting increased ice time. This was not happening when the team was healthier. Before the injuries (and the pp still playing awful), okposo was getting zero minutes of PP time.

Why are you attributing this to coaching rather than being essentially down to 9 forwards? It is a bizarre complaint to be obsessed with

All you have is excuses for this team. Its too bad that you ignore the problems. You think this is the first time Okposo has been deployed this way??? No, its not. He has been on the power play and penalty kill since pretty much day one. Granato is an awful coach. Or wait! Maybe we have played with 9 forwards since the beginning of the season? Bizarre is if you watch the games but don't see how Okposo is deployed yet you come on here to defend the way Granato uses Okposo for ONE game when his usage has been the same since the beginning of the season. Bizarre is right.

 

[zenthusiast]

I don’t know how to rescramble to roster if they bid Okposo happy trails but he’s not even the player he was last year anymore. It sucks, because most of the roster plays a stupid game while he doesn’t, but he just lacks the nhl capacity (and it’s sometimes had him in penalty trouble when he can’t play like he used to)

It’s tempting to say “blow these lines up and reconstruct from the pieces” anyway