Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[HOOats]

I also believe Adams could have sold Casey on sticking around. Show him the reality of the upcoming cap crunch, and convince him to be part of something going forward with something in the 5-6M range. Instead, the lack of talk about getting Mitts signed probably put a chip on his shoulder in a contract year, not the best move for a player you want to re-sign.

I don't think he's at all the type to feel this way. And I would guess that he has one of the best player relationships with Adams and is as bought in as anyone. I recognize the rest of your points for sure.

Curious what you think about the range of deal Adams could have gotten done with the max effort before this year vs what you think it will take after this year if Mitts ends up in the 0.8 PPG range.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Sabres’ last experience with a Kane was poor. Stay away….

 

[Dingo44]

Why is Marty moonlighting on the TSN Canadiens broadcast?

 

[Irie]

I don't think he's at all the type to feel this way. And I would guess that he has one of the best player relationships with Adams and is as bought in as anyone. I recognize the rest of your points for sure.

Curious what you think about the range of deal Adams could have gotten done with the max effort before this year vs what you think it will take after this year if Mitts ends up in the 0.8 PPG range.

While I agree that I don't think Mitts is the type of player to make huge issues from being left out of the "priorities for the organizations future", just being human it has to be a bit of a let down and most people would feel a bit slighted under the circumstances.

As to the contract negotiations, before this season, If Adams is a good negotiator, I would think Mitts comes in around 5.5, but only because of the recent Cozen's deal. If I look around the league, looking at what McCann (5), Zacha (4.75), Cirelli(6.25), Hagel(6.5) all signed for recently.... I think during the offseason it would have been easy to make the argument of 5.5 as the ceiling. (had Cozens not signed for 7, I think 4.75-5 would have been a sellable number.

Now, if Mitts goes over 65 points and is playing a top six center role on this team to finish out the year, I think you have to offer him the Cozen's contract.

 

[Snippit]

Here are my cap space calcs for the next few years if anyone is interested...

View attachment 765533

Nice work.

And of course its not just cap but roster space. For example next year all of Kulich, Rosen, Benson, and Savoie will have very legitimate arguments to get NHL time.

Skinner, Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Peterka, Greenway, Mittelstadt, Quinn….that’s 8/9 of the top 9 spots already locked up.

It might soon be time to start moving our excess forward prospects (Ostlund, maybe Rosen, etc) but trade them for what ? Established players that will also cost against the cap?

It might be a good problem to have for now, but we need to play our cards right to maximize value. And I’m not sure what the solution is.

What I do know is I want Mittelstadt to be part of this core for at least the medium term, because he is just the best player right now flat out.

 

[Sabreality]

in regards to the Kane talk, who knows if Buffalo is even on his list, he might not want to deal with all that and vice versa.

 

[Sabreality]

Mitts is like a lovechild of a healthy Tim Connolly & Mikael Backlund, I wanna keep that around.

 

[Archie Lee]

While I agree that I don't think Mitts is the type of player to make huge issues from being left out of the "priorities for the organizations future", just being human it has to be a bit of a let down and most people would feel a bit slighted under the circumstances.

As to the contract negotiations, before this season, If Adams is a good negotiator, I would think Mitts comes in around 5.5, but only because of the recent Cozen's deal. If I look around the league, looking at what McCann (5), Zacha (4.75), Cirelli(6.25), Hagel(6.5) all signed for recently.... I think during the offseason it would have been easy to make the argument of 5.5 as the ceiling. (had Cozens not signed for 7, I think 4.75-5 would have been a sellable number.

Now, if Mitts goes over 65 points and is playing a top six center role on this team to finish out the year, I think you have to offer him the Cozen's contract.

I do think it is possible that they will at least consider moving Mittelstadt in the off-season. Unless the plan is to just let our prospects sort themselves out and allow some to over-ripen and lose value, the Sabres will need to either trade prospects for established players or trade established players for future assets.

It has already been shown in this thread that cap-space will be tight soon, and it will only be tighter if we trade top prospects for established players, while also extending Mitts at fair value. Mitts is establishing himself as a top 6 centre. Top 6 centres and top pairing D-men are the most sought after assets in hockey. We have two additional top 6 centres in Thompson and Cozens and a group of potential centres in various stages of development (Krebs, Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund, Wahlberg). I'm not saying I want this, or that anyone does (including Adams), but trading Mitts (or Thompson or Cozens, I guess, though those seem even less likely to be dealt) is an alternative. I'm not in a hurry or trying to be inpatient, and I'm not the first to say this, but there isn't room for everyone.

 

[Dingo44]

Last year the Cozens extension came during the season out of nowhere. I expect the Mitts extension to end up the same way.

 

[K8fool]

Nice work.

And of course its not just cap but roster space. For example next year all of Kulich, Rosen, Benson, and Savoie will have very legitimate arguments to get NHL time.

Skinner, Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Peterka, Greenway, Mittelstadt, Quinn….that’s 8/9 of the top 9 spots already locked up.

It might soon be time to start moving our excess forward prospects (Ostlund, maybe Rosen, etc) but trade them for what ? Established players that will also cost against the cap?

It might be a good problem to have for now, but we need to play our cards right to maximize value. And I’m not sure what the solution is.

What I do know is I want Mittelstadt to be part of this core for at least the medium term, because he is just the best player right now flat out.

Ostlund grew and will make the team.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I don’t want Kane, especially long term, but we can probably make it work for a deal that includes only this year and next year. This would be the forwards rolling in the playoffs:

Skinner - Tage - Tuch
Greenway - Mitts - Peterka
Kane - Cozens - Quinn
Girgs - Savoie - Okposo
X - Krebs, Jost

 

[Irie]

I do think it is possible that they will at least consider moving Mittelstadt in the off-season. Unless the plan is to just let our prospects sort themselves out and allow some to over-ripen and lose value, the Sabres will need to either trade prospects for established players or trade established players for future assets.

It has already been shown in this thread that cap-space will be tight soon, and it will only be tighter if we trade top prospects for established players, while also extending Mitts at fair value. Mitts is establishing himself as a top 6 centre. Top 6 centres and top pairing D-men are the most sought after assets in hockey. We have two additional top 6 centres in Thompson and Cozens and a group of potential centres in various stages of development (Krebs, Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund, Wahlberg). I'm not saying I want this, or that anyone does (including Adams), but trading Mitts (or Thompson or Cozens, I guess, though those seem even less likely to be dealt) is an alternative. I'm not in a hurry or trying to be inpatient, and I'm not the first to say this, but there isn't room for everyone.

Unfortunately we are now getting to the point where the trick is going to be moving money out, and since every team in the league is in dire need of cap space, the options are limited. The return on a guy like Mitts at 5M would be solid. I am not sure there is a huge market for Mitts if he is making over 7 and his resume of success is less than two seasons.

In a perfect world, you hold on to the young talent as long as you can and slowly integrate them into the team, one per year to keep the pipeline loaded and the ELC contracts flowing to help with the cap issues.

With too many prospects all being ready at the same time, Adams could also look at swapping a prospect or two for more draft capital. Not ideal because you likely lose some value, but a flexible way to maybe clear some of the bottleneck.

 

[Dingo44]

Why are we talking about moving our best forward right now - especially one who is 24 and can make any line better?

 

[Irie]

Why are we talking about moving our best forward right now - especially one who is 24 and can make any line better?

I don't know what you are talking about.... I have been posting why it is hypothetically not worth moving him.

The problem is that with his extension this upcoming season, something on the roster is likely going to have to give, but for the record, I have never once suggested Mitts be traded. I spent way too much time in game day threads last winter defending him against the jabroni squad that wanted to "launch him into the sun" to give up on him now that he has arrived.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Why are we talking about moving our best forward right now - especially one who is 24 and can make any line better?

He’s a true center so we can’t really move him unless we really believe in Krebs to step up.

Instead, we’ll have to move one of Quinn or JJP before their next contracts since they’ll need raises the same year Levi does, and there’s no space for them all.

And that’s assuming we move Tuch at the end of his contract, to give you an idea of the difficult decisions coming up after next season.

 

[BFLO]

1.) Everything?? That's a bit of an overstatement. He'd likely help the PP. He'd bring some depth of scoring. But dude would be the worst player in his own zone on this team by MILES.

2.) He was apparently a good solider last year in lieu of Toews......buuuuuut that whole Beach thing still casts a malodor about his locker room presence. I'd say no.

3.) 100% agreed.

He would be worse, but not not by miles.

According to Evolving Hockey's 2022-23 Even strength defense metric, Kane was the 3rd worst forward in the league last year. Skinner was 13th, and Tage 17th.

Tage has improved astronomically this season to 10th best in the league (Insert giraffe unicorn .gif here)

Skinner is 7th worst this season. Even if Kane came in and was the worst EVD forward in the league he'd only be ahead of Skinner by 6 spots, that's hardly miles of separation.

 

[Diaspora]

[Comment redacted for low entertainment value.]

 

[Archie Lee]

Another former high first rd pick currently without a contract and rehabbing from hip surgery is Jesse Puljujarvi. I would prefer we add him than Kane at this point.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

There won't be any serious thoughts of trading any established top-9 guys until a cap situation forces a move. I expect that by the end of this season and all of next season, we'll run with 14 FWs and there will be a constant rotation of Savoie/Kulich/Rosen/Benson going in and out of starting spots, extras in the box, and Rochester.

It will take 3-4 of them to blow up and force a trade, or 1-2 of them look mediocre and get traded themselves. Long term @Doug Prishpreed is right that the cap won't allow any big spending sprees, but I also don't think Quinn and Peterka will be able to command 6 mil contracts, or that ANY goalie will command a big deal. This stuff will probably shake out with minimal drama as some guys will end up mediocre, or maybe some decisions on who to keep/trade will seem obvious.

 

[stokes84]

We’re going to trade for Draisaitl and finally a great wrong will be corrected.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Hypothetical: Sabres make the playoffs and are on the upswing. Edmonton bottoms out and McDavid requests a trade.

Trade offer comes in from Edmonton:

Thompson
Power
Kulich
Jokiharju
UPL

McDavid’s camp says they are willing to re-sign in a year.

Here’s what the 24-25 Sabres would look like going into the draft and free agency:

Skinner - McDavid - Tuch
Greenway - Mittelstadt - Peterka
Quinn - Savoie - Cozens
xxx - Krebs - Jost

With Benson available.

Samuelsson - Dahlin
xxx - Johnson
xxx - Clifton

Levi

Would you do it?

 

[stokes84]

Hypothetical: Sabres make the playoffs and are on the upswing. Edmonton bottoms out and McDavid requests a trade.

Trade offer comes in from Edmonton:

Thompson
Power
Kulich
Jokiharju
UPL

McDavid’s camp says they are willing to re-sign in a year.

Here’s what the 24-25 Sabres would look like going into the draft and free agency:

Skinner - McDavid - Tuch
Greenway - Mittelstadt - Peterka
Quinn - Savoie - Cozens
xxx - Krebs - Jost

With Benson available.

Samuelsson - Dahlin
xxx - Johnson
xxx - Clifton

Levi

Would you do it?

Poor Rosen is such a forgotten man. Slot him into that lineup!

And yes, I would do that.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Hypothetical: Sabres make the playoffs and are on the upswing. Edmonton bottoms out and McDavid requests a trade.

Trade offer comes in from Edmonton:

Thompson
Power
Kulich
Jokiharju
UPL

McDavid’s camp says they are willing to re-sign in a year.

Here’s what the 24-25 Sabres would look like going into the draft and free agency:

Skinner - McDavid - Tuch
Greenway - Mittelstadt - Peterka
Quinn - Savoie - Cozens
xxx - Krebs - Jost

With Benson available.

Samuelsson - Dahlin
xxx - Johnson
xxx - Clifton

Levi

Would you do it?

No. That's at least 20 mil going to Edm and 12.5 coming back, so cap issues will change things up dramatically. Either way, one guy doesn't make up for losing 20% of the roster. The FW group would survive but the D-corps loses big time, and we become what Edm is now.

 

[stokes84]

No. That's at least 20 mil going to Edm and 12.5 coming back, so cap issues will change things up dramatically. Either way, one guy doesn't make up for losing 20% of the roster. The FW group would survive but the D-corps loses big time, and we become what Edm is now.

Edmonton doesn’t have Rasmus Dahlin. We have one of the top 3 defenseman in the world, and he is young and a workhorse. We can fill in the pieces around him.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

There won't be any serious thoughts of trading any established top-9 guys until a cap situation forces a move. I expect that by the end of this season and all of next season, we'll run with 14 FWs and there will be a constant rotation of Savoie/Kulich/Rosen/Benson going in and out of starting spots, extras in the box, and Rochester.

It will take 3-4 of them to blow up and force a trade, or 1-2 of them look mediocre and get traded themselves. Long term @Doug Prishpreed is right that the cap won't allow any big spending sprees, but I also don't think Quinn and Peterka will be able to command 6 mil contracts, or that ANY goalie will command a big deal. This stuff will probably shake out with minimal drama as some guys will end up mediocre, or maybe some decisions on who to keep/trade will seem obvious.

You have $13m to pay all of Quinn/JJP/Levi in the same year. So it won’t take “3 or 4 of them to blow up,” like you say, and it doesn’t matter if they don’t earn a full $6m.

Unless one of them will be a total bust, you need to move one of them AND Tuch, and that’s assuming you don’t bring anyone else in .