Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Snippit]

Not a thing... he'd get picked up for that easily. The problem is his NMC

He holds the record for most games without playoffs. If he has any pride he’d waive it to go to a guaranteed playoff team.

 

[Aladyyn]

That may get him to serviceable 4C. We need a vet that can be relied upon in key situations. He is not that. I would rather we get a vet that can serve in that role.

I am once again asking the board to actually look at what 4Cs on good teams look like and stop trying to fix issues that don't exist.

 

[Djp]

Mitts showed promise thruout his development..I never had any doubt he would become a good player. Thompson sure..he came out of nowhere for me anyways. But Krebs hasn't really shown anything for me ... the problem isn't the teammates he has been given because he has done nothing to indicate he deserves better linemates. The problem is he should of been in Rochester for the past 2 years.

Mitts also wasny banished to 4th line duties

Krebs needs better linemates to be better.

I preferred he had more time in Rochester

 

[Jim Bob]

Finding positive thoughts for 11 of the NHL’s non-playoff teams

Let's get positive. It's time to try to find something nice to say about the truly hopeless teams.

theathletic.com

1. Buffalo Sabres​

The negative: It’s been 13 years since their last playoff game. Four years since the fan base appeared to hit rock bottom. Ten months since they watched the franchise savior who quit on them be rewarded with a Stanley Cup. And most important of all, one year since they finished a 91-point season, their first time finishing over .500 since 2012, to finally signal that better days were ahead and they were ready to contend for the playoffs.

And then… they took a big step backward. Again. Again!

I’ve been doing this column gimmick since the Grantland days, and the Sabres have been in every single one. In 2019 I wrote, “It could be worse”. In 2021 I wrote, “It can’t get any worse”. In 2017 I wrote “Eventually some super volcano will erupt and none of this will matter”, and I’m kind of mad about that because I could sure use that line now.

Honestly, I don’t know how you Sabres fans do it.

Positive thought #1: No team in the league has a better young blue line core. Rasmus Dahlin, Owen Power and Bowen Byram should all be studs for the next decade. There are more than a few teams out there that don’t have a single defenseman anywhere in the system with the outlook of any of those guys, and the Sabres have all three on the NHL roster. If the old adage about building from the net out still holds, the Sabres should be in great shape.

Positive thought #2: Oh, right, the net. Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen has looked good and is only 25, right? And while Devon Levi’s season was a major letdown, he’s looked sharp in March and just turned 22. The Sabres could re-sign Luukkonen and ride that duo and see where it takes them. Or maybe more enticingly, Kevyn Adams could hold onto one young goalie while moving the other for veteran help, and go into next season without the position looking like a question mark.

Positive thought #3: The future is extremely bright. I realize Sabres fans might be sick of hearing that after over a decade of rebuilds, but they’ve got lots of young talent at the NHL level, plus Wheeler’s top-ranked prospect pool. The torch is being passed, as we saw this week when Jeff Skinner’s 1,000th game turned into the JJ Peterka show. There’s plenty to work with, for Don Granato or whoever replaces him. The pieces are in place for future success.

It’s just not here quite yet. Again.

 

[Jim Bob]

I can't understand why people want to waive Krebs, he's a fine 4C. Playing him as your 3C is going to lead to problems.

I want a different look at 4C than what Krebs brings.

Personally, I would put Krebs in the "trade assets to use to improve the roster" bucket this summer. There is likely a few GMs around the league that liked him in his draft year and would be willing to add him to see if he can add playmaking up the middle that another team needs.

'24 1st + Krebs could be a package that gets them a solid upgrade at 3C.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I am once again asking the board to actually look at what 4Cs on good teams look like and stop trying to fix issues that don't exist.

The problem is that they seem to be intending to use him as a 3C. Adams clearly said he’s shopping for a 4C in the offseason

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I want a different look at 4C than what Krebs brings.

Personally, I would put Krebs in the "trade assets to use to improve the roster" bucket this summer. There is likely a few GMs around the league that liked him in his draft year and would be willing to add him to see if he can add playmaking up the middle that another team needs.

'24 1st + Krebs could be a package that gets them a solid upgrade at 3C.

That's a terrible use of assets. You don't trade a top 10ish pick + for a 3C.

 

[joshjull]

I want a different look at 4C than what Krebs brings.

Personally, I would put Krebs in the "trade assets to use to improve the roster" bucket this summer. There is likely a few GMs around the league that liked him in his draft year and would be willing to add him to see if he can add playmaking up the middle that another team needs.

'24 1st + Krebs could be a package that gets them a solid upgrade at 3C.

I like everything except including this year’s 1st in the trade.

 

[Jim Bob]

That's a terrible use of assets. You don't trade a top 10ish pick + for a 3C.

It has to be the right guy. But, I would give up the Sabres '24 1st (barring a move up in the lottery, of course) for Anthony Cirelli.

I don't want to hear about proper use of futures this offseason and "winning trades". They have to make some moves to add the types of veterans that can help turn this young, talented, inconsistent group into a team that makes the playoffs in 24-25.

If that means they overpay for two or three of the right guys, then so be it.

With all the prospects they have built up, they can afford to overpay in futures this offseason.

 

[Gabrielor]

Finding positive thoughts for 11 of the NHL’s non-playoff teams

Let's get positive. It's time to try to find something nice to say about the truly hopeless teams.

theathletic.com

Agree with all of this.

The Sabres most recently won, which means my mood has swung to pretty much all positives, but I do genuinely believe this time is different, because of the combo of picks still available, talent on the roster, and talent in the pipeline.

 

[Jacob582]

The problem is that they seem to be intending to use him as a 3C. Adams clearly said he’s shopping for a 4C in the offseason

It wouldn't be Adams way to challenge a player publicly by stating they are going to fill a position (3C) that they (Krebs) want.

I read that as: Adams wants Krebs to come up to that level.

If he doesn't then I see Krebs being 4C again next season.

 

[TehDoak]

I want a different look at 4C than what Krebs brings.

Personally, I would put Krebs in the "trade assets to use to improve the roster" bucket this summer. There is likely a few GMs around the league that liked him in his draft year and would be willing to add him to see if he can add playmaking up the middle that another team needs.

'24 1st + Krebs could be a package that gets them a solid upgrade at 3C.

The problem is Adams has already told us the plan. he spoke about Krebs stepping into 3C and he also spoke about all center prospects we have as why they were comfortable moving Mittelstadt.



Now, don't get me wrong, it's a shitty plan, especially for a team that should be shifted fully into win now mode.

This isn't a front office that learns lessons from their past mistakes. Adams has already told us the plan for the summer:

1. Fill 3C internally
2. Move out some futures for a top 6F
3, Find a 4th line center.

That's it. That's what they are going to try to do.

My guess is at least one d-man is gone (Joker with arb rights is probably the best bet there) and maybe some depth signings.

I'm not sure what they do with Krebs if he fails to win the 3C spot, especially if they are investing in a veteran 4C. He's probably a 13th forward or moved at a discount elsewhere.

My honest to god hope is Buffalo brings someone into the front office to at least evaluate what is going on there and maybe even mentor Adams in how to build a team. There are clear fundamental issues with Adams approach to things, from cap management to roster building to how to develop players.

 

[Gabrielor]

I like everything except including this year’s 1st in the trade.

I don't believe Adams would actually trade that, despite being for moving it myself.

 

[Jim Bob]

The problem is Adams has already told us the plan. he spoke about Krebs stepping into 3C and he also spoke about all center prospects we have as why they were comfortable moving Mittelstadt.



Now, don't get me wrong, it's a shitty plan, especially for a team that should be shifted fully into win now mode.

This isn't a front office that learns lessons from their past mistakes. Adams has already told us the plan for the summer:

1. Fill 3C internally
2. Move out some futures for a top 6F
3, Find a 4th line center.

That's it. That's what they are going to try to do.

My guess is at least one d-man is gone (Joker with arb rights is probably the best bet there) and maybe some depth signings.

I'm not sure what they do with Krebs if he fails to win the 3C spot, especially if they are investing in a veteran 4C. He's probably a 13th forward or moved at a discount elsewhere.

My honest to god hope is Buffalo brings someone into the front office to at least evaluate what is going on there and maybe even mentor Adams in how to build a team. There are clear fundamental issues with Adams approach to things, from cap management to roster building to how to develop players.

I think the biggest fundamental issue with Adams approach to things thus far is that he has been too patient for a GM that inherited a team with a long playoff drought.

And while that could be the plan this summer, I also think that your 3 items are off a bit.

On 3C, he said he was asking around for forward help and there are reports that he called on Noah Cates and Boone Jenner. If he trades for Boone Jenner, he isn't a 4C. So, I do not believe he is locked in at Krebs as the 3C next season as long as he can actually find a deal that he can get done.

I actually will be surprised if he lands a top 6 F of note for futures. Especially with all the young top 6 Fs already on the roster.

I also think he makes at least one move on D.

The key will be that Adams will need to "play out of character" and be more aggressive than he has been previously. He can't target guys with NTC/NMC clauses that he fails to convince to waive. He cannot pass on adding a quality player because he doesn't want to give up one specific pick or prospect. He can't go into next season without adding at least a couple meaningful players that can change the overall expectations and consistency with the team.

 

[joshjull]

I don't believe Adams would actually trade that, despite being for moving it myself.

I don’t have a problem trading the first. Just not in that trade.

 

[OkimLom]

I think the biggest fundamental issue with Adams approach to things thus far is that he has been too patient for a GM that inherited a team with a long playoff drought.

Honestly, that is the farthest thing from my mind when it comes to Adams. If Adams and Co, really thought there was an issue with the core (at the time he inherited the team) that required a selling off of those assets (as he did), then worrying about how quickly they can get up and running should be the last thing on his mind doing his job. Based on his actions I would say that was the case. He felt a rebuild was necessary.

If this was a simple retool, then I would be agreeing with you on that.

But if you're doing a rebuild of a franchise, and you are trading off the best player of the old core, and center piece of core, and you are building up the organization through the draft, then you best not screw it up, by rushing it.

My issues with Adams has been his lack of ability to address many of the "intangible" aspects of teams that you find in a lot of the good successful teams. I feel like he's done a terrible job of getting guys that play the Hecht-type roles, the Adam Mair-type roles, the Curtis Brown-type of roles of the team. Sure you have a bunch of talent on your team, but we need the glue guys, and while some guys might fit that bill, like Krebs, they are too busy needing to be developed to worry about fitting those sort of roles that every team needs to be filled. It's a part of why I don't like the rushing of development of the prospects that Adams has done.

IMO, Krebs should've been a mainstay on the Americans top line learning to play all situations in the AHL last season and if he performed well enough just getting to the NHL lineup this season.

 

[Tatanka]

I am once again asking the board to actually look at what 4Cs on good teams look like and stop trying to fix issues that don't exist.

I was referring to Krebs as a 3C. I want a vet in that role. You are correct, 4Cs on many good teams are past their prime or one dimensional in their production, Legwand and Larrsons as examples. But Legwand was very useful in defensive draws and dzones starts late in games and Larry helped eat minutes against better opponents while keeping hd chances down. A 3C needs to be more productive and be able to bring young line mates along. Krebs would not fit either role well, although he would be serviceable in a 4C role. We should be looking to improve at both positions.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

That's a terrible use of assets. You don't trade a top 10ish pick + for a 3C.

I'd happily trade our top 10 pick, though I wouldn't add Krebs to that package. I'd do one or the other, plus smaller stuff.

A good 3C is such a huge role, and something we've been missing since...I actually can't remember the last time we had a solid, dependable one. It;s the key to making the playoffs so I happily give up our #9 pick this year. Especially because everyone slated to go there is pretty redundant in our system.

 

[Tatanka]

Honestly, that is the farthest thing from my mind when it comes to Adams. If Adams and Co, really thought there was an issue with the core (at the time he inherited the team) that required a selling off of those assets (as he did), then worrying about how quickly they can get up and running should be the last thing on his mind doing his job. Based on his actions I would say that was the case. He felt a rebuild was necessary.

If this was a simple retool, then I would be agreeing with you on that.

But if you're doing a rebuild of a franchise, and you are trading off the best player of the old core, and center piece of core, and you are building up the organization through the draft, then you best not screw it up, by rushing it.

My issues with Adams has been his lack of ability to address many of the "intangible" aspects of teams that you find in a lot of the good successful teams. I feel like he's done a terrible job of getting guys that play the Hecht-type roles, the Adam Mair-type roles, the Curtis Brown-type of roles of the team. Sure you have a bunch of talent on your team, but we need the glue guys, and while some guys might fit that bill, like Krebs, they are too busy needing to be developed to worry about fitting those sort of roles that every team needs to be filled. It's a part of why I don't like the rushing of development of the prospects that Adams has done.

IMO, Krebs should've been a mainstay on the Americans top line learning to play all situations in the AHL last season and if he performed well enough just getting to the NHL lineup this season.

But that is not what happened. He went out and tried to win out of the gate. He added players thinking the team was close. He added the wrong players. They needed Haula not Hall and anyone other than Stahl. And a goalie that could actually see without surgery. The tear down happened when that plan went to crap. Then he acted.

I agree his focus on the future is getting in the way of the now.

 

[TehDoak]

I think the biggest fundamental issue with Adams approach to things thus far is that he has been too patient for a GM that inherited a team with a long playoff drought.

And while that could be the plan this summer, I also think that your 3 items are off a bit.

On 3C, he said he was asking around for forward help and there are reports that he called on Noah Cates and Boone Jenner. If he trades for Boone Jenner, he isn't a 4C. So, I do not believe he is locked in at Krebs as the 3C next season as long as he can actually find a deal that he can get done.

I actually will be surprised if he lands a top 6 F of note for futures. Especially with all the young top 6 Fs already on the roster.

I also think he makes at least one move on D.

The key will be that Adams will need to "play out of character" and be more aggressive than he has been previously. He can't target guys with NTC/NMC clauses that he fails to convince to waive. He cannot pass on adding a quality player because he doesn't want to give up one specific pick or prospect. He can't go into next season without adding at least a couple meaningful players that can change the overall expectations and consistency with the team.

Noah Cates is a 4th line winger in Philadelphia

Noah Cates Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Noah Cates. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

13 minutes of ice time. Evidently he played some center last year, but is terrible at faceoffs, so I see why Adams is interested.

The only things on Jenner we've heard is from an unreliable source (Chad)

But, even if we were interested,

1. Jenner has an 8 team no trade clause.
2. I'm not sure why Columbus is trading their captain and a guy who can mentor their younger centers on a reasonable contract

Jenner would likely have to ask for a trade to get moved....and he's not going to want to go to a team as far away from the playoffs as Columbus is.

And the fundamental issue with Adams is he doesn't learn. In his first year, they needed to find a more reliable partner for Ullmark than Hutton, they didn't.

In year 2, they needed 2 goalies. They got a retiree and an AHL goalie.

In year 3, they needed a starting goalie, they got a waiver bait backup goalie who put up decent numbers in a defensive heavy system in easy starts.

In year 4, they needed to add a goalie but instead forced a college goalie to start for them and kept the now waiver proof backup goalie

4 years, same problem, no solution.

The same with the depth center issue. They've needed a good 2 way center in his entirety of his span as a GM and their best solution was Jost. He doesn't learn. That is his biggest issue.

 

[Dubi Doo]

The problem is Adams has already told us the plan. he spoke about Krebs stepping into 3C and he also spoke about all center prospects we have as why they were comfortable moving Mittelstadt.



Now, don't get me wrong, it's a shitty plan, especially for a team that should be shifted fully into win now mode.

This isn't a front office that learns lessons from their past mistakes. Adams has already told us the plan for the summer:

1. Fill 3C internally
2. Move out some futures for a top 6F
3, Find a 4th line center.

That's it. That's what they are going to try to do.

My guess is at least one d-man is gone (Joker with arb rights is probably the best bet there) and maybe some depth signings.

I'm not sure what they do with Krebs if he fails to win the 3C spot, especially if they are investing in a veteran 4C. He's probably a 13th forward or moved at a discount elsewhere.

My honest to god hope is Buffalo brings someone into the front office to at least evaluate what is going on there and maybe even mentor Adams in how to build a team. There are clear fundamental issues with Adams approach to things, from cap management to roster building to how to develop players.

I haven't watched a ton of game recently, but this statement was made after the TDL, right? Given Krebs play lately, Im not sure Adams is going to trust him in a top-9 role. I have some faith he's going to trade /sign a top-9 C and a 4th line C. Honestly, that would be a big time help in shoring up the C spine

 

[TehDoak]

I haven't watched a ton of game recently, but this statement was made after the TDL, right? Given Krebs play lately, Im not sure Adams is going to trust him in a top-9 role. I have some faith he's going to trade /sign a top-9 C and a 4th line C. Honestly, that would be a big time help in shoring up the C spine

I will believe that when I see it. Adams has simply never shown the ability to recognize roster issues and solve them.

 

[Jim Bob]

Noah Cates is a 4th line winger in Philadelphia

Noah Cates Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Noah Cates. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

13 minutes of ice time. Evidently he played some center last year, but is terrible at faceoffs, so I see why Adams is interested.

The only things on Jenner we've heard is from an unreliable source (Chad)

But, even if we were interested,

1. Jenner has an 8 team no trade clause.
2. I'm not sure why Columbus is trading their captain and a guy who can mentor their younger centers on a reasonable contract

Jenner would likely have to ask for a trade to get moved....and he's not going to want to go to a team as far away from the playoffs as Columbus is.

And the fundamental issue with Adams is he doesn't learn. In his first year, they needed to find a more reliable partner for Ullmark than Hutton, they didn't.

In year 2, they needed 2 goalies. They got a retiree and an AHL goalie.

In year 3, they needed a starting goalie, they got a waiver bait backup goalie who put up decent numbers in a defensive heavy system in easy starts.

In year 4, they needed to add a goalie but instead forced a college goalie to start for them and kept the now waiver proof backup goalie

4 years, same problem, no solution.

The same with the depth center issue. They've needed a good 2 way center in his entirety of his span as a GM and their best solution was Jost. He doesn't learn. That is his biggest issue.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

CapFriendly has Cates listed as the Flyers' 3C currently.

And he was playing C at practice yesterday with Farabee & Atkinson:

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

CapFriendly has Cates listed as the Flyers' 3C currently.

And he was playing C at practice yesterday with Farabee & Atkinson:

It's going to be him and Krebs next year lol. Which won't work.

 

[Jim Bob]

It's going to be him and Krebs next year lol. Which won't work.

It would not shock me. But, it would not give me confidence that they are built to make the playoffs.