Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Doug Prishpreed]

I figure Kozak and maybe Wahlberg will also be good 4th line players or add some grit up the depth chart. Either way, those players are usually late add-ons or TDL acquisitions for teams on a Cup run. They are rarely drafted by the team that needs them when it matters most.

I've been dreaming of a Wahlberg - Kozak - Cederqvist line for a while now, but you're right, it will probably be new bodies in reality.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I've been dreaming of a Wahlberg - Kozak - Cederqvist line for a while now, but you're right, it will probably be new bodies in reality.

Could be Kozak and Cederqvist as soon as next season...Wahlberg is a few years away.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Could be Kozak and Cederqvist as soon as next season...Wahlberg is a few years away.

I think all 3 are two years away but who knows.

 

[Chainshot]

I wanted to see more growth out of Cederqvist in camp this year. *shrug*

 

[Jim Bob]

I wanted to see more growth out of Cederqvist in camp this year. *shrug*

It will be interesting to see if he hits the Murray ceiling as a solid AHL guy who never develops into a solid bottom 6 NHL forward.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I wanted to see more growth out of Cederqvist in camp this year. *shrug*

Last season he starts with a hat trick, this season he scores on his own team in the first week. Not the start we wanted to see but I can say the same about some guys on the NHL team too.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I think all 3 are two years away but who knows.

I'll just be happy if any two can make it.

 

[Dingo44]

 

[Tatanka]

Very good point, but to be fair, a lot of the D on the list are young and are still promising, and a couple are already good NHLers.

Injuries have derailed a lot of the forwards, but Kaliyev paced for 20 goals in the NHL and is a pretty good young player and Vilardi paced for 30 last season. I also wouldn't write of the rest of the group just yet.

The biggest issue with trading a bunch of good looking prospects is that you run the risk of ultimately moving the best prospects if you make moves too early.

If you get back a valuable player who helps the team you risk nothing. You simply are using a medium of exchange.

 

[Irie]

If you get back a valuable player who helps the team you risk nothing. You simply are using a medium of exchange.

Unfortunately, the value returned for prospects before they break out is always going to be just a fraction of their post break-out worth.

-McDonagh was traded for a 30 year old Gomez.... Habs got some Value, so did they risk nothing? I would say they risked a lot and lost out huge on that trade.

-Three years ago you would have had to add something substantial to Tage Thompson to return a guy like Blake Coleman from Tampa.

Trade the wrong prospect and you are almost guaranteed to lose that trade valuewise.

 

[Dingo44]

Unfortunately, the value returned for prospects before they break out is always going to be just a fraction of their post break-out worth.

-McDonagh was traded for a 30 year old Gomez.... Habs got some Value, so did they risk nothing? I would say they risked a lot and lost out huge on that trade.

-Three years ago you would have had to add something substantial to Tage Thompson to return a guy like Blake Coleman from Tampa.

Trade the wrong prospect and you are almost guaranteed to lose that trade valuewise.

Then you have the veteran Joe Nieuwendyk for young player Jerome Iginla trade - win/win.

 

[Tatanka]

Unfortunately, the value returned for prospects before they break out is always going to be just a fraction of their post break-out worth.

-McDonagh was traded for a 30 year old Gomez.... Habs got some Value, so did they risk nothing? I would say they risked a lot and lost out huge on that trade.

-Three years ago you would have had to add something substantial to Tage Thompson to return a guy like Blake Coleman from Tampa.

Trade the wrong prospect and you are almost guaranteed to lose that trade valuewise.

I’m pretty sure St. Louis was ok trading Tage for ROR and VGK trading Krebs et. al. For Jack. If you target the right guy for the right reason, it doesn’t matter if the prospect excels for someone else. You are getting that value now instead of in 3 or 4 years Or more.

 

[Irie]

Then you have the veteran Joe Nieuwendyk for young player Jerome Iginla trade - win/win.

Dallas moved Iginla after they had already had a lot of playoff success and we're on the cusp of making the finals. Dallas always had the bad luck of having to get through both Colorado and Detroit in the West in that era, which was a tough task.

I have said many times on these very boards that once the Sabres are a top 5 cup favorites, no trade or prospect is off limits to put them over the hump. But the odds that moving out half of a top prospects before any of them have broken out turning out great value wise for a team is historically very slim.

 

[Irie]

I’m pretty sure St. Louis was ok trading Tage for ROR and VGK trading Krebs et. al. For Jack. If you target the right guy for the right reason, it doesn’t matter if the prospect excels for someone else. You are getting that value now instead of in 3 or 4 years Or more.

Tage and Krebs were throw-ins in those deals though. The first round picks were the feature, and we are talking about two scenarios that were outliers due to Jack's neck and RoR's bonus.

The Sabres are not getting a top center or a first pairing defender for any collection of Kulich/Rozen/Ostlund/Savoie unless they need career threatening surgery, in which case, the risk is huge and there is a big gamble involved.

Maybe you could get an expiring Nylander who is looking for 11M to extend for 2 or 3 of those guys, and if any of them break out, the value would be poor.

 

[Tatanka]

Tage and Krebs were throw-ins in those deals though. The first round picks were the feature, and we are talking about two scenarios that were outliers due to Jack's neck and RoR's bonus.

The Sabres are not getting a top center or a first pairing defender for any collection of Kulich/Rozen/Ostlund/Savoie unless they need career threatening surgery, in which case, the risk is huge and there is a big gamble involved.

Maybe you could get an expiring Nylander who is looking for 11M to extend for 2 or 3 of those guys, and if any of them break out, the value would be poor.

If a player doesn’t want to resign with their team, and he is a top 6 top 4 guy, a first is a given. The sweeteners are what makes it happen. Trouba, Laine, Jones 2x, DuBois, blah blah blah. All wanted out. The prospects makes the deal happen. And usually an experienced roster player of value. Not one that a team no longer wants i.e. Vic.

 

[Irie]

If a player doesn’t want to resign with their team, and he is a top 6 top 4 guy, a first is a given. The sweeteners are what makes it happen. Trouba, Laine, Jones 2x, DuBois, blah blah blah. All wanted out. The prospects makes the deal happen. And usually an experienced roster player of value. Not one that a team no longer wants i.e. Vic.

Totally agreed but that still doesn't change the fact that prospects that have not broken out in the league rarely return much value. For every Iginla-Nieuwendyk trade there are 15 trades that are closer to an Erat-Forsberg level.

All I am saying is that the return Adams can expect for guys like Rozen, Kulich, Ostlund etc. Is going to be extremely disappointing if any of them break out after.

Because of this, it is my opinion that a team is better off holding onto those types of prospects for a while while the team is still up and coming. Once the team is a cup contender, the situation changes, but until that time, there is a timeframe where it is too early to move top prospects.

 

[Irie]

If a player doesn’t want to resign with their team, and he is a top 6 top 4 guy, a first is a given. The sweeteners are what makes it happen. Trouba, Laine, Jones 2x, DuBois, blah blah blah. All wanted out. The prospects makes the deal happen. And usually an experienced roster player of value. Not one that a team no longer wants i.e. Vic.

I would also add that most of those situations are where a player has a set destination or two in mind and Buffalo would not be on it.

Trades of that nature are much more likely to be like Ottawa's experience in the Debrincat deal for a small market team like the Sabres.

 

[zenthusiast]

There’s a distinct difference in targeting a specific player for acquisition and getting the best possible return in a bad situation when a player is on the way out. They’re both important skills, obviously more significant at different stages of building

 

[vcv]

Ok I might be losing my mind. I can’t find the GDT for tonight’s game. Couldn’t on Saturday either. Am I missing something?

 

[Zman5778]

Ok I might be losing my mind. I can’t find the GDT for tonight’s game. Couldn’t on Saturday either. Am I missing something?

Chances are you have the thread starter on your ignore list.

 

[vcv]

Chances are you have the thread starter on your ignore list.

That was it. Thanks pal!

What a strange feature. I didn’t even ignore them intentionally in the first place.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Then you have the veteran Joe Nieuwendyk for young player Jerome Iginla trade - win/win.

I was living in Calgary when that trade happened. The general reaction was literally "Jarome who?" Iginla was a blossoming star by the time Nieuwendyk won was gifted a Cup with Dallas.

You're 100% correct. Stellar trade for both teams in hindsight. The Sabres will have to do something similar eventually to be serious contenders.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Totally agreed but that still doesn't change the fact that prospects that have not broken out in the league rarely return much value. For every Iginla-Nieuwendyk trade there are 15 trades that are closer to an Erat-Forsberg level.

All I am saying is that the return Adams can expect for guys like Rozen, Kulich, Ostlund etc. Is going to be extremely disappointing if any of them break out after.

Because of this, it is my opinion that a team is better off holding onto those types of prospects for a while while the team is still up and coming. Once the team is a cup contender, the situation changes, but until that time, there is a timeframe where it is too early to move top prospects.

Zhitnik-Coburn is one of my faves.

Not getting burned is a matter of projecting development, instead of making an assessment based on where they are now. Should be easier than judging players at 17 for an upcoming draft. Do we have the smarts in management to not get burned? Nobody knows yet.

I was reluctant to see Risto traded for that very reason - surely he'll blossom elsewhere. Oopsie!

Sabres have a couple of years at least before having to make any significant trades to get us "over the hump". Not sure if that's good or bad.

If we win a Cup or two, but see traded prospects, who brought key pieces, go on to have HoF careers, we'll all be quite happy.

 

[Irie]

Zhitnik-Coburn is one of my faves.

Not getting burned is a matter of projecting development, instead of making an assessment based on where they are now. Should be easier than judging players at 17 for an upcoming draft. Do we have the smarts in management to not get burned? Nobody knows yet.

I was reluctant to see Risto traded for that very reason - surely he'll blossom elsewhere. Oopsie!

Sabres have a couple of years at least before having to make any significant trades to get us "over the hump". Not sure if that's good or bad.

If we win a Cup or two, but see traded prospects, who brought key pieces, go on to have HoF careers, we'll all be quite happy.

Definitely, and it is always going to be instance to instance and everything will depend on where the team is in that current timeline of the competitive window.

Currently, I don't think anyone knows who is going to ultimately be the better prospect between Ostlund/Savoie/Kulich/Rozen. More time and evaluation is definitely needed before moving any of them out for mediocre upgrades at this stage of the build.

Once the team is in the contender phase, then any minor upgrade is a lot more valuable, so the cost is more in line with what the return will likely bring. We just aren't there yet.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Definitely, and it is always going to be instance to instance and everything will depend on where the team is in that current timeline of the competitive window.

Currently, I don't think anyone knows who is going to ultimately be the better prospect between Ostlund/Savoie/Kulich/Rozen. More time and evaluation is definitely needed before moving any of them out for mediocre upgrades at this stage of the build.

Once the team is in the contender phase, then any minor upgrade is a lot more valuable, so the cost is more in line with what the return will likely bring. We just aren't there yet.

One wonders if the Sabres will need upgrades to reach that contender phase.

They have all their draft picks, and cap space, at least in the immediate future. It needn't be prospects only.