Roster Speculation part XXII

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Reddawg

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I think you're going to see Reinhart and Eichel joined together at the hip pretty much all season long. There's no reason I can think of to split them up.

It would be amazing if Ennis can come back and actually play at top form...found money.
 

Myllz

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I think you're going to see Reinhart and Eichel joined together at the hip pretty much all season long. There's no reason I can think of to split them up.

It would be amazing if Ennis can come back and actually play at top form...found money.

To play Sam at center.
 

Snippit

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I think you're going to see Reinhart and Eichel joined together at the hip pretty much all season long. There's no reason I can think of to split them up.

It would be amazing if Ennis can come back and actually play at top form...found money.

I say give Ennis the third line. Let him have full control over it (put him with support-type players), and see if he can do what he did in 14-15.

Vesey-ROR-Okposo
Kane-Eichel-Reinhart
Moulson-Girgs-Ennis
Foligno-Larsson-Gionta

Edit: After looking over the lines, I would only put Ennis on the third line if Vesey comes over.
 

Doug Prishpreed

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Considering our wealth of center depth and our dearth of winger depth, perhaps I should have said I can't think of a *good* reason to split them up.

Playing our #2 OA pick at his natural potion is a good reason. I'm not saying there aren't other equally good options, but it certainly is worth looking at.
 

Captain Holt

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I say give Ennis the third line. Let him have full control over it (put him with support-type players), and see if he can do what he did in 14-15.

Vesey-ROR-Okposo
Kane-Eichel-Reinhart
Moulson-Girgs-Ennis
Foligno-Larsson-Gionta

Edit: After looking over the lines, I would only put Ennis on the third line if Vesey comes over.

If Vesey comes here ain't no way in hell he isn't playing with Eichel.
 

jc17

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I say give Ennis the third line. Let him have full control over it (put him with support-type players), and see if he can do what he did in 14-15.

I wouldn't mind ennis with Girgensons and Moulson. Ennis and Girgs are good along the boards. If Moulson can get to the net maybe he can bury a few. That was like our first line 2 years ago. They had a ton of goals against, but whatever.
 

joshjull

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Considering our wealth of center depth and our dearth of winger depth, perhaps I should have said I can't think of a *good* reason to split them up.

Not sure I would agree with that

Options on the roster (7); Kane, Okposo, Ennis, Girgs, Gionta, Foligno, Moulson. Guys pushing for a spot (4); Bailey, Fasching, Nylander, Carrier. Thats not counting Vesey if he signs.

Thats a decent amount of options to find 6 wingers for ROR, Eichel and Reinhart.
 

Dingo44

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Who cares if Reinhart plays center? Him and Eichel have amazing chemistry and compliment each other. I could care less if he's playing wing if it means keeping him and Jack together. We're a lucky team to have three #1 centers, basically.
 

Myllz

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Who cares if Reinhart plays center? Him and Eichel have amazing chemistry and compliment each other. I could care less if he's playing wing if it means keeping him and Jack together. We're a lucky team to have three #1 centers, basically.

Because being able to anchor a third line may be more beneficial to the team than playing well with Jack. Lots of guys are going to be able to play well with Jack.
 

Samsonite23

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Who cares if Reinhart plays center? Him and Eichel have amazing chemistry and compliment each other. I could care less if he's playing wing if it means keeping him and Jack together. We're a lucky team to have three #1 centers, basically.

Because center is a more influential position.
 

Ace

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Who cares if Reinhart plays center? Him and Eichel have amazing chemistry and compliment each other. I could care less if he's playing wing if it means keeping him and Jack together. We're a lucky team to have three #1 centers, basically.

It's much easier to neutralize 2 lines then 3. Pittsburgh just got some kind of reward for figuring that out and having their 3 best players on their own lines built around them and daring the opponent to put their third best option out to stop Kessel.

it doesn't have to be done right away. But Reinhart is a center.
 

Sabresfansince1980

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Because being able to anchor a third line may be more beneficial to the team than playing well with Jack. Lots of guys are going to be able to play well with Jack.

Yeah, we shouldn't get so hyped because we finally saw ONE combo play well together after years of crap. This team is better and the overall benefit of another dangerous line could be well above what those two can accomplish together.

Reinhart at RW pretty much forces the bottom two Cs to be Larsson and Girgensons. That is basically assigning your bottom six to be strictly defensive role units, with not enough defensive Ws to complete the lines. If some people imagine a Moulson-Girgs-Ennis line as a 3rd scoring "mis-match" line, we could be doing a hell of a lot better with Reinhart there.

Side note - I think TM is waiting on Girgensons' contract because he might be traded.

2nd side note - None of our line combos ideas will see more than two games together. I almost hope that success will make Bylsma attempt at some level of cohesion, but I doubt it. Just expect ROR and Eichel as the top-six Cs...everything else will be guesswork.
 

Dingo44

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It's much easier to neutralize 2 lines then 3. Pittsburgh just got some kind of reward for figuring that out and having their 3 best players on their own lines built around them and daring the opponent to put their third best option out to stop Kessel.

it doesn't have to be done right away. But Reinhart is a center.

Eh everyone's points are all well and good but I'm still cool with him playing wing. :)
 

Push Dr Tracksuit

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I think Pittsburgh's 3 scoring lines was more of a symptom of proper usage and speed then it was a planned way of winning. They consistently were faster then their opponents and were consistently playing their better players more and their worse players less. Proper usage had to more to do with beating SJ than building a 3 line model. SJ was on their heels from game 1 and they struggled to play their game at any point in the series.
 

struckbyaparkedcar

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What your trying to describe is just the 14-15 season. Because TT only played 3 regular season games and no playoff games in in 13-14. Even in 14-15 TT only played in 34 NHL games (he spent half the season in the AHL).
No, Bickell-Shaw-TT was an example of the Hawks using a bottom six line of offensive spare parts and successfully giving them easy minutes despite a Toews/Kane top six also trying to get offensively favorable TOI.

I forgot about Sharp playing his way out of the top six that season and anchoring their third line. Kruger was 9th in ESTOI/60 the two years prior and 7th in total ESTOI (not per-game) in the 2015 playoffs (because they were more willing to sit the dudes orbiting the bottom six for a game or three despite them playing more than Marcus on a per-game basis).

The line you describe of TT/Shaw/Bickell and others was their 3rd line during the season. Kruger and his line were getting roughly 1min a night less. Which doesn't jive with what Jame argued. In the playoffs TT was on a line for much of it with Vermette/Sharp. Thats not an offensively stacked line thats inept defensively. Its a very good two way line with a kid on it (TT).
Okay, but when that line was comprised of worse ES players, like Bickell-Shaw-Stalberg in 2013, Kruger was 9th in ESTOI/60. So basically, when the "offensive spare parts line" had some legit bodies in it they played slightly more (while getting hella OZS against the lowest QoC), and when it was more challenged ES players, they played slightly less. My point about the Blackhawks is way less about minutes distribution and way more about how they are a real life example of the opportunity/matchup strategy that Jame is outlining.

Again, I forgot about Patrick Sharp on their third line that year. Kruger was a fourth liner who got double shifted for defense each of the previous two seasons and the Blackhawks organization has pretty clearly valued his willingness to play a thankless role from the second Cup season through now.

That line along with the Kruger and Toews lines got defensive matchups. Who get more ice time of the Vermette/Kruger lines was usually based on which was the better matchup on any given night in the playoffs. So its fluctuated throughout the playoffs. But neither line could be described as, nor were they used as, an offensive matchup line in the way Jame is describing the Moulson/Girgs/Ennis line.
Sharp-Vermette-TT were 10th, 12th and 13th in QoC by TOI in the 2015 playoffs. The only Chicago forwards with more offensive zone starts were the Kane line. What Chicago did with forward opportunity distribution in 2/3rds of their Cups is literally exactly Jame's blueprint.

Not to mention if an unestablished kid, like TT was at the time, was ever on line getting the least amount of ES ice time. It wouldn't be nearly the big deal that Ennis on a line like that would be. Nor would it it be parallel situation.
Ennis is coming off a bunch of concussions, bought into being the offensive spark of an elite team's fourth line on Team Canada, and would play his way up the lineup, especially in down-a-goal situations if he was providing hyper-efficient offense from a depth role. Those same dudes don't have to play those minutes for 82 games, the role just needs to exist on our team as a safe space for out-of-form offensive forwards.

I don't know if you got the "stacked fourth line" verbiage from a post of mine or Jame's, but I've always tried to describe that type of fourth/depth line setup as a "spare parts" line, not as some type of huge competitive advantage.

I would also point out that your description of their d-zone deployment is somewhat irrelevant to proving whether or not they had an offensively stacked 4th line.
It matches up with QoC too, plus their staff and front office valuing Kruger as a defensive specialist despite minutes/opportunity.
 

tsujimoto74

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Because being able to anchor a third line may be more beneficial to the team than playing well with Jack. Lots of guys are going to be able to play well with Jack.

If anything, Reinhart was the guy who was easy for everybody to play with last season. Eichel didn't show much chemistry with anyone other than Reinhart and (arguably) Girgensons, in the short stint he played on Eich's wing. If Eichel becomes that player who produces even if you play him alongside 2 pylons next season, great, then Reinhart can go to another line and help somebody else. Until that happens, who are you benefiting by splitting them up?
 

Samsonite23

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Hopefully there's a point in the season where the 2 get a chance to play on different lines for a decent amount of time.

It's fun seeing them play together, and it's not like it's a bad thing that they are on the same line. We're so used to seeing crappy play that the first time we see a pair play well together we immediately want to stick with it (which is totally normal). But they're your 2 star young players. Of course they're good together. Reinhart is good with everybody so why wouldn't he be good with Jack?

What's even better than the 2 playing well together, is the 2 playing well with different players (that aren't obvious star 1C caliber). Then we can have 3 strong lines. How cool would that be?
 

Heraldic

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If Vesey signs and no other moves are made, we should start to play Reinhart at center (like I have said long ago). We certainly have the center depth, and our fourt line (Larsson centering) can get the Krüger/Glendening treatment. That's exactly the kind of deployment with how Detroit/Chicago have gotten relatively lot offensive opportunities for three lines. Sure, it would pretty much demolish the fourth line offensively, but Larsson really haven't been a world beater production wise on 5v5 so I don't think it really matters.

Center depth is the most crucial thing, and with Reinhart/Larsson being the bottom-6 centers (while Larsson only having actual defensive deployment), the depth is where it should be. A line centered by Reinhart is/would be offensively a lot more productive than a line surrounded by Larsson/Girgensons.

And after a couple of years, hopefully Asplund is ready and we can switch ROR to wing and bump up the center depth chart (Asplund being 3rd line center).

***

And why the **** have I started seeing Ennis put as a center here?
 

Matt Ress

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Meh. I think Reinhart at C is still a year or two out. Worried about Ennis at C? Worry more about Moulson in the top 9 or 12.

No Vesey? Bailey will be the answer. Won't bring as much yet but can fill in.

We'll have to get used to life without Girgs unless TM can pull off a miracle.
 
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