Roster Speculation part XXII

[brian_griffin]

Its a good way to keep things organized if there really are separate things to be arguing about, or if one really does feel the need to rebut every single sentence that someone else posted. But it can be overdone, yes.

I just wish that people would include the identifier text that appears in the first leading quote bracket, in every one of the quote segments. It makes it easier to keep track of where all the of the quoted text is coming from. Without the identifier all of the quote segments after the first one are ambiguous.

It's easy enough to follow... (just to annoy you )

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Marcus Foligno was arbitration eligible but chose not to go that route. Interesting.

Right now, there are 3 FA (Rasmus, Marcus, and Zemgus...aka the "-us"-es) + Vesey that the team must consider.

Will be interesting to see what deal Foligno gets.

 

[vcv]

Marcus Foligno was arbitration eligible but chose not to go that route. Interesting.

Right now, there are 3 FA (Rasmus, Marcus, and Zemgus...aka the "-us"-es) + Vesey that the team must consider.

Will be interesting to see what deal Foligno gets.

Can't imagine he'd get more than his QO from arbitration. Would probably get a similar deal to Jason Zucker.

So he's probably trying to get a longer term deal for a little more. 4 years $10M?

 

[Jame]

Marcus Foligno was arbitration eligible but chose not to go that route. Interesting.

Right now, there are 3 FA (Rasmus, Marcus, and Zemgus...aka the "-us"-es) + Vesey that the team must consider.

Will be interesting to see what deal Foligno gets.

Is it possible for an arbitration award to come in less than previous years salary?

 

[1972]

We should trade for Josi since he's the worst defenceman in the NHL.

 

[Paxon]

Is it possible for an arbitration award to come in less than previous years salary?

Aren't the high and low ends set by what the two sides put forth?

 

[Heraldic]

He can easily hold the line on Girgs. IF BM is looking for 1st + young top 6 for Fowler, the young top 6 wing being a RFA is NOT a deal breaker.

Not a deal breaker likely, but I bet he prefers a player with a ready contract in place to avoid getting into more trouble.

And it's not likely a good thing to acquire an RFA (which you likely intend to keep long term), and before he even plays a single game, hard ball him taking a low salary contract. Usually when players on RFA status are traded, the team acquiring them extends them long term.

I noticed earlier that once again you found a way to interject Larsson

Could you be a bit more specific?

ok.

Hmm, was there something strange/unclear there? It's basically buying when the price is low compared to buying some other time, when the price could be higher.

Similarly, Girgs isn't a priority right now.

Outside of Risto none of single signing is a priority.

But that wasn't the point. The point was that RFA talks general were a top priority. Murray had to start at least preliminary talks with every RFA to get the idea what kind of contract they are going to pursue, and how much cap hit it likely would eat.

Did the Buffalo media ask a question that triggered a generic response that we could then apply a silly amount of importance on?

So you don't remember?

Larsson had no leverage and wants to prove his value. He knows his role going in to the year.

After giving Larsson a "prove it" contract, Murray obviously decided to give him another "prove it" contract. Most likely Murray informed Larsson's camp that he either takes the current contract (which is slightly above QO) or he has to accept the QO. That's why it got done so fast. That way you got a guaranteed cap figure for one of your RFAs and you also have a lot clearer idea about a player during trade talks (low salary/cap hit contracts are valuable this offseason).

Girgs may believe his draft status and half season of some offense gives him some leverage for a better contract. He and his agent could know that he's been involved in potential trade talks and would rather see the summer play out before committing to a contract. Girgs camp may have floated the Dynamo rumor to gain some leverage.

He could be, but what exactly indicates that? And Girgs already shot that rumor down (as did Murray). In the past Girgs has said he is not going to play in Russia/KHL.

There really isn't anything indicating that Murray doesn't see Girgs a long-term piece (everything indicates he does), and nothing really indicates Girgs wants to leave. Girgs haven't given comlaints in the media, Murray hasn't talked about him questionable etc.

I would guess that Murray has the 1 year deal on the table and the long term, low value deal on the table. I suspect Girgs doesn't like either, and wants the 2-3 year deal. Murray got the 3 year deal with McCabe done first to set some expectations for Girgs camp.

I suspect Murray and Girgs settle on a 2 year deal similar to Foligno's. Or we can go back to Marcus Kruger's 2 year bridge. Or Tanner Pearson's 2 year bridge from the same 1st round draft class.

That's my prediction as well. Murray has the QO on the table like he has to have (Girgs can always just sign that, and Murray cannot withdraw that offer) and the long term offer (for the reasons I have explained). And if Girgs liked the QO (or was told there is not going to be any other offer) he likely would have just signed it already (or he is waiting for an offersheet, which is not that likely IMO). But I don't think that McCabe's contract has that much relevance regarding Girgs. One finished his rookie year while the other finished his 3rd full NHL season.

So to put it shortly, I expect Murray to seek the long term deal here, like I said in the first place. Not that I'm expecting a long term deal being the result.

Is it possible for an arbitration award to come in less than previous years salary?

I don't think the arbitration award can be lower than the QO. If they (Sabres) would have filed the arbitration before QO, it could have been a bit lower. Colorado used this approach with ROR back then. They didn't qualify ROR with 6 million salary, they instead filed the arbitration on June before the draft.

 

[Samsonite23]

We should trade for Josi since he's the worst defenceman in the NHL.

Welcome to the main board, where corsi stats are end all and usage and QOT doesn't matter!

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Nah, but maybe when valuing defensemen we should chill on watching him dance through three guys or hit a stretch pass the length of the ice and realize he might not always leverage those tools because Zach Bogosian was better at shot suppression.

 

[Djp]

Is it possible for an arbitration award to come in less than previous years salary?

I don't recall the CBA rules verbatim on this...I was looking at it yesterday in rwgards to an issue on the trade board and if a player could be traded if they select arbitration.

I think under some circumstances the lowest it can go is 85% of the last years contract...but there are certain circumstances surrounding this. Otherwise, it would be the QO amount.

With arbitration the team can reject the decision within 48 hrs if it exceeds a min salary that was $3.5M in 13/14. This goes up at the same rate as the offer sheet bands go up as avg player salaries goes up. This year it may be around $4M.


I think the issue with Foligno and the team is length and amount.

Does Buffalo want to have a high paying 4th line player?

The cap issues will come into play in 18/19 if Moulson and Ennis are still on the roster. If eichel and Reinhart get big contracts then Buffalo would have about $15-18M for 10 forwards. Over $9M goes to 2 forwards plus they will have a bunch of ELC contracts expiring.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Little late. I like Nylander. I think he'll become a really good RW, and I like the idea of a faster RW next to Reinhart.

Wish GMTM took Sergachev. I think he also ends up being a good player, and would've brought impact play, especially offensively, to the blueline. I think he plays in Montreal this season.

Sabres defense.... what could've been.

Kulikov - Ristolainen
Gorges - Bogosian
McCabe - Sergachev

No knock on Nylander. Just preferred Sergachev.

 

[1972]

Little late. I like Nylander. I think he'll become a really good RW, and I like the idea of a faster RW next to Reinhart.

Wish GMTM took Sergachev. I think he also ends up being a good player, and would've brought impact play, especially offensively, to the blueline. I think he plays in Montreal this season.

Sabres defense.... what could've been.

Kulikov - Ristolainen
Gorges - Bogosian
McCabe - Sergachev

No knock on Nylander. Just preferred Sergachev.

We can get that next draft.

 

[FazeLeaf*]

Kane + Girgensons + Franson

For

Martinez + King + Kempe + 2nd?

We get rid of Kane and get a top 4 dman. Although LA doesnt have the depth on d to do this though.

But

King - O'Reilly - Reinhart
Vesey - Eichel - Okposo
Foligno - Larsson - Ennis
Deslauriers - Prospect - Gionta

Martinez - Risto
Kulikov - Bogosian
McCabe - Gorges

Lehner
Nilsson

Kings

Kane - Kopitar - Percell
Gaborik - Carter - Brown
Pearson - Girgensons - Toffoli
Clifford - Nolan - Lewis
Andreaoff

Mcnabb - Doughty
Muzzin - Franson
Scuderi/Forbort - Gilbert

Quick
Zaktoff

 

[Jim Bob]

Kane + Girgensons + Franson

For

Martinez + King + Kempe + 2nd?

We get rid of Kane and get a top 4 dman. Although LA doesnt have the depth on d to do this though.

I would be stunned if LA made that trade.

 

[stokes84]

^^

Look at those LWs. 1st liner Dwight King.

Do not understand why people are so obsessed with moving Jake McCabe out of the top 4. I'm not even sure Martinez is better than him.

 

[Husko]

^^

Look at those LWs. 1st liner Dwight King.

Do not understand why people are so obsessed with moving Jake McCabe out of the top 4. I'm not even sure Martinez is better than him.

I am.

 

[stokes84]

I am.

Considering you have been one of the main proponents of moving McCabe to the third pair, and I've disagreed with your opinion every step of the way about him, I'll reserve judgment.

 

[sabrebuild]

Considering you have been one of the main proponents of moving McCabe to the third pair, and I've disagreed with your opinion every step of the way about him, I'll reserve judgment.

Playoff tested alec martinez vs rookie year mccabe, and you think they are pretty close to the same player? Is that your position more or less?

 

[stokes84]

Playoff tested alec martinez vs rookie year mccabe, and you think they are pretty close to the same player? Is that your position more or less?

No. I think 2016-17 Jake McCabe could be a better player than 2016-17 Alec Martinez.

 

[sabrebuild]

No. I think 2016-17 Jake McCabe could be a better player than 2016-17 Alec Martinez.

Ok. How do you get there? I'm honestly curious to know what you have seen in both players to make you think mccabe, who showed some good moments along with a lot of bad projects to playing at martinez's level already. Has martinez fallen off horribly? Could you give some specifics? I didn't see much of la this year. Perhaps martinez nose dived since i last saw him.

 

[Jame]

Ok. How do you get there? I'm honestly curious to know what you have seen in both players to make you think mccabe, who showed some good moments along with a lot of bad projects to playing at martinez's level already. Has martinez fallen off horribly? Could you give some specifics? I didn't see much of la this year. Perhaps martinez nose dived since i last saw him.

I think this type of view is natural on nearly every board. Fans see their young players as projecting to perfection (and quickly), and don't place value in non-elite defensemen who have already established their ability.

Martinez-Muzzin are a fantastic 2nd pair, and the type of pair that both are the benefit of. As a pair, they are the complete opposite of McCabe-Bogo.

Martinez, i think, is a good comparable for McCabe as a career trajectory though... highlighting how long the development curve can be for defensemen who don't have stand out athletic traits.

I get a good chuckle from the "see you don't need a bunch of top defensemen, just look at LA, Pitt, etc".... when in reality, you need a bunch of really good defensemen, and too many people just don't recognize good defensemen.

Alex Martinez is a good defensemen
Jake McCabe is in development

McCabe should be playing 15 minutes a night on a 3rd pair like Martinez was 5 years ago.... thinking that 2016 McCabe could be better than 2016 Martinez.... asinine

 

[Havok89]

No. I think 2016-17 Jake McCabe could be a better player than 2016-17 Alec Martinez.

Man, I hope McCabe can get there but I don't feel comfortable risking this season on it.

 

[joshjull]

Man, I hope McCabe can get there but I don't feel comfortable risking this season on it.

Risking this season? That trade isn't happening so I'm not quite understanding your point.

 

[sabrebuild]

I think this type of view is natural on nearly every board. Fans see their young players as projecting to perfection (and quickly), and don't place value in non-elite defensemen who have already established their ability.

Martinez-Muzzin are a fantastic 2nd pair, and the type of pair that both are the benefit of. As a pair, they are the complete opposite of McCabe-Bogo.

Martinez, i think, is a good comparable for McCabe as a career trajectory though... highlighting how long the development curve can be for defensemen who don't have stand out athletic traits.

I get a good chuckle from the "see you don't need a bunch of top defensemen, just look at LA, Pitt, etc".... when in reality, you need a bunch of really good defensemen, and too many people just don't recognize good defensemen.

Alex Martinez is a good defensemen
Jake McCabe is in development

McCabe should be playing 15 minutes a night on a 3rd pair like Martinez was 5 years ago.... thinking that 2016 McCabe could be better than 2016 Martinez.... asinine

Ya, i see a future quality career for mccabe. But nothing he did this year made me think he is ready for big boy playoff hockey in year 2.

 

[Yatzhee]

Ya, i see a future quality career for mccabe. But nothing he did this year made me think he is ready for big boy playoff hockey in year 2.

Hockey is hockey. The game doesn't change, the intensity with which "some", and I emphasize some players increase.

Since McCabe has never been in NHL playoff hockey in his long career (every bit of sarcasm meant, for obvious reasons), you, I and the rest of the breathing human race doesn't know how he'll play in NHL playoff hockey..........just sayin'