Roster Speculation 2017-18 Part 3

[Icicle]

Q: Terry, two quick things on timeline. When you met with Dan and Tim had you already made your decision?

Pegula: No.

Q: So the meetings made the decision?

Pegula: The detailed conversations with Tim, Dan, others in the organization, yeah, we talked to players and put it all together and the decision was made.



Now for context, remember, a couple days before Tim kept saying his plans for the defense all failed and sucked and he is to blame for them. In two days he didn't come up with one worthwhile in any way to save his skin.

 

[sincerity0]

Not gonna go back and rewatch it, but I'm fairly certain that Pegula never mentioned Murray not having a plan.

Again, as a poster above already stated, this (fake) "news" came from one of the Sabres beat reporters - I think it was from Hamilton.

But he's the only one who has stated it, and it make absolutely no sense.

To be fair I do remember seeing stuff on Twitter regarding this. I'm pretty sure it came from Paul Hamilton -- this poster is definitely not making it up. Hamilton may have.

 

[Myllz]

Q: Terry, two quick things on timeline. When you met with Dan and Tim had you already made your decision?

Pegula: No.

Q: So the meetings made the decision?

Pegula: The detailed conversations with Tim, Dan, others in the organization, yeah, we talked to players and put it all together and the decision was made.



Now for context, remember, a couple days before Tim kept saying his plans for the defense all failed and sucked and he is to blame for them. In two days he didn't come up with one worthwhile in any way to save his skin.

That's terrible evidence to support your claim.

 

[Paxon]

Q: Terry, two quick things on timeline. When you met with Dan and Tim had you already made your decision?

Pegula: No.

Q: So the meetings made the decision?

Pegula: The detailed conversations with Tim, Dan, others in the organization, yeah, we talked to players and put it all together and the decision was made.



Now for context, remember, a couple days before Tim kept saying his plans for the defense all failed and sucked and he is to blame for them. In two days he didn't come up with one worthwhile in any way to save his skin.

The above is inarguably speculation.

There is no speculation here. This is exactly what he and Terry said. He asked for what the plan going forward was and there wasn't one and was fired the same day.

 

[Husko]

Q: Terry, two quick things on timeline. When you met with Dan and Tim had you already made your decision?

Pegula: No.

Q: So the meetings made the decision?

Pegula: The detailed conversations with Tim, Dan, others in the organization, yeah, we talked to players and put it all together and the decision was made.



Now for context, remember, a couple days before Tim kept saying his plans for the defense all failed and sucked and he is to blame for them. In two days he didn't come up with one worthwhile in any way to save his skin.

So, just to be clear.

Murray wasn't far off, he just wasn't ready to fire Bylsma and had no plan forward on how to fix things.

And

There is no speculation here. This is exactly what he and Terry said. He asked for what the plan going forward was and there wasn't one and was fired the same day.

You don't think the bolded is speculation, given your source only says the decision was made based off the meeting?

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Ever notice how the reporters posting contradictory timelines are the same ones that keep getting scooped?

Stop. Listening. To. Hamilton, Wawrow, TBN and Davis.

 

[Icicle]

Post Tim Murray's logs from two days before he was fired.

Full blame. Thought defense was fine.

Wasn't planning on firing Bylsma, aka, no plan forward.

Canned two days later.

 

[OkimLom]

Q: Terry, two quick things on timeline. When you met with Dan and Tim had you already made your decision?

Pegula: No.

Q: So the meetings made the decision?

Pegula: The detailed conversations with Tim, Dan, others in the organization, yeah, we talked to players and put it all together and the decision was made.



Now for context, remember, a couple days before Tim kept saying his plans for the defense all failed and sucked and he is to blame for them. In two days he didn't come up with one worthwhile in any way to save his skin.

That could be read in multiple ways though. Either he didn't have a plan (yet Murray came to the realization that his previous plan failed, surely he would think of something else to correct it), or he had a plan, but Pegula, after talking with Murray, might not have liked the plan going forward.

 

[Samsonite23]

Post Tim Murray's logs from two days before he was fired.

Full blame. Thought defense was fine.

Wasn't planning on firing Bylsma, aka, no plan forward.

Canned two days later.

You're just making things up at this point.

 

[OkimLom]

Post Tim Murray's logs from two days before he was fired.

Full blame. Thought defense was fine.

Wasn't planning on firing Bylsma, aka, no plan forward.

Canned two days later.

Again speculative. In fact, he came out and said, before talking to the players, he didn't think of firing Bylsma. The end of the year discussions put doubt in his mind, and led to multiple people thinking that's why Eichel was a big reason why Bylsma was on the hot seat.

 

[Jim Bob]

Post Tim Murray's logs from two days before he was fired.

Full blame. Thought defense was fine.

Wasn't planning on firing Bylsma, aka, no plan forward.

Canned two days later.

Huh?

Murray said that he didn't address the D enough last off season and that was on him.



It's OK to say that we don't know the full reason why Pegula fired Murray and Byslma outside of his repeating a few buzzwords at the press conference.

 

[TehDoak]

Terry's reason for firing Murray doesn't matter, Murray is gone, we have a new GM. Let's move on.

 

[Jame]

Post Tim Murray's logs from two days before he was fired.

Full blame. Thought defense was fine.

Wasn't planning on firing Bylsma, aka, no plan forward.

Canned two days later.

makeitstop

 

[Ace]

I'd like to refer him to option B in my original post on the matter

 

[brian_griffin]

Q: Terry, two quick things on timeline. When you met with Dan and Tim had you already made your decision?

Pegula: No.

Q: So the meetings made the decision?

Pegula: The detailed conversations with Tim, Dan, others in the organization, yeah, we talked to players and put it all together and the decision was made.



Now for context, remember, a couple days before Tim kept saying his plans for the defense all failed and sucked and he is to blame for them. In two days he didn't come up with one worthwhile in any way to save his skin.

That's terrible evidence to support your claim.

The above is inarguably speculation.

Far, far, more likely a man paid to have a plan, whose major job duty and responsibility is to make, revise, and execute that plan, indeed had his plan.

But suppose someone Vulcan mind-melded with Murray and removed his plan from his brain (if a Vulcan mind-meld can actually do that). I'd fully believe Murray is capable of making up essentially on the spot a reasonable / realistic / viable plan which would pass muster with Russ, Kim, and Terry. Heck, most the posters on this boards could do it in their heads on the spot.

No, I firmly believe Murray had his plan at the end of the year.

I believe Murray was let go because he was either:
(A) wedded to Bylsma, and wouldn't reconsider, or
(B) he instilled no confidence he could correct and improve the cohesion & communication, regardless of whether Bylsma stayed or not.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I wonder if Arizona starts to get cold feet and shops around OEL this summer. He has two years left. Next summer is when you can negotiate a new deal and by then he can make it clear he has no intention of staying in Arizona. I don't see why he would to be honest, that's a franchise with a muddy future that is going no where (meaning success wise, they may be going some place else though)

Would people feel comfortable trading Reinhart+#8+ for OEL with two years left and no guarantee he would stay? I think I'd reluctantly pull the trigger on a deal like that. As for the third piece it certainly isn't going to be McCabe or Guhle. Reinhart+#8 for a guy with two years left even a player as good as OEL is a massive offer. I'd toss in Bailey or Fasching with Reinhart and #8 for OEL though that leaves us extremely thin up front. In a scenario where we move Reinhart,#8 and Bailey for a single Dman I'd guess that Kane would have to be extended if we wanted to have any semblance of a balanced offense. Eichel can't create 3 goals every game single handedly.

But thinking of a blue line that has OEL, Ristolainen, McCabe, Guhle and Antipin with Eichel, RoR, Okposo, Nylander and Kane up front is pretty intriguing.

 

[brian_griffin]

Post Tim Murray's logs from two days before he was fired.

Full blame. Thought defense was fine.

Wasn't planning on firing Bylsma, aka, no plan forward.

Canned two days later.

Not planning to fire Bylsma is NOT synonymous with no plan forward, let alone trying to construe that one of either not planning to fire Bylsma or allegedly lacking a plan forward was the reason Murray was fired.

Double fail.

Terry's reason for firing Murray doesn't matter, Murray is gone, we have a new GM. Let's move on.

Agreed.

 

[brian_griffin]

I wonder if Arizona starts to get cold feet and shops around OEL this summer. He has two years left. Next summer is when you can negotiate a new deal and by then he can make it clear he has no intention of staying in Arizona. I don't see why he would to be honest, that's a franchise with a muddy future that is going no where (meaning success wise, they may be going some place else though)

Would people feel comfortable trading Reinhart+#8+ for OEL with two years left and no guarantee he would stay? I think I'd reluctantly pull the trigger on a deal like that. As for the third piece it certainly isn't going to be McCabe or Guhle. Reinhart+#8 for a guy with two years left even a player as good as OEL is a massive offer. I'd toss in Bailey or Fasching with Reinhart and #8 for OEL though that leaves us extremely thin up front. In a scenario where we move Reinhart,#8 and Bailey for a single Dman I'd guess that Kane would have to be extended if we wanted to have any semblance of a balanced offense. Eichel can't create 3 goals every game single handedly.

But thinking of a blue line that has OEL, Ristolainen, McCabe, Guhle and Antipin with Eichel, RoR, Okposo, Nylander and Kane up front is pretty intriguing.

Overpayment.

If most people agree Reinhart = Hanifin in terms of both value and team control, is it reasonable that OEL with 2 years until UFA, is worth Reinhart plus 8OA plus another term/cost-controlled forward?

 

[Husko]

I'd do 8OA + Nylander + Kane + other lesser assets for OEL.

Not Reinhart

 

[Sabre the Win]

I don't trust Kane, this was his 2nd best season to date but I am not sure if it has anything to do with a contract coming up. Every season prior to this season he's been completely average (except for Thrasher days playing for a contract after his ELC) and I can't help think once he gets paid he goes back to that way. That's why I am for selling him at his highest because Reinhart, even if not at center is a better way to go than Kane. He might not score as many goals as Kane but he can make up for that by keeping more pucks out of our own net than Kane. I mean if they cant score that just means we don't need to score as much to win.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I wonder if Arizona starts to get cold feet and shops around OEL this summer. He has two years left. Next summer is when you can negotiate a new deal and by then he can make it clear he has no intention of staying in Arizona. I don't see why he would to be honest, that's a franchise with a muddy future that is going no where (meaning success wise, they may be going some place else though)

Would people feel comfortable trading Reinhart+#8+ for OEL with two years left and no guarantee he would stay? I think I'd reluctantly pull the trigger on a deal like that. As for the third piece it certainly isn't going to be McCabe or Guhle. Reinhart+#8 for a guy with two years left even a player as good as OEL is a massive offer. I'd toss in Bailey or Fasching with Reinhart and #8 for OEL though that leaves us extremely thin up front. In a scenario where we move Reinhart,#8 and Bailey for a single Dman I'd guess that Kane would have to be extended if we wanted to have any semblance of a balanced offense. Eichel can't create 3 goals every game single handedly.

But thinking of a blue line that has OEL, Ristolainen, McCabe, Guhle and Antipin with Eichel, RoR, Okposo, Nylander and Kane up front is pretty intriguing.

Friedman just tweeted that the Yotes aren't taking calls at the moment. Have also signed Cal... I mean Kevin Ekman-Larsson to an AHL deal.

Sadly, I think recouping value on someone like OEL is gonna be so hard that the Yotes will take every opportunity to get good enough to sign him.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I still believe the best move is to trade Kane for D. Try to get out of as many bad contracts as we can, Moulson, Ennis, and Bogo (Not really that bad if used right). Look for 1 year UFA's. See what we have next year under different coaching and structure.

You never know, this team could surprise under the right leadership from GM, coach, a more vocal Ryan O'Reilly, and a maturing Eichel. I think most would agree the team underachieved last year.

 

[old kummelweck]

You never know, this team could surprise under the right leadership from GM, coach, a more vocal Ryan O'Reilly, and a maturing Eichel. I think most would agree the team underachieved last year.

The injuries were brutal.

 

[DJN21]

The injuries were brutal.

Ehhh same excuse is used every year.

We need a #2 dman, period. Keep risto's minutes down and reap the rewards.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Ehhh same excuse is used every year.

We need a #2 dman, period. Keep risto's minutes down and reap the rewards.

Looking around the league it seems that the best way of acquiring top D like that is through the draft. Takes a lot of time and patience to develop D properly.

Risto and McCabe probably 3 years away from really hitting their best years. Who knows what they could become.

I agree about lowering Risto's minutes. That should be done no matter what the rest of the D looks like.

Kane should bring back a quality D. Not a top 2-3, but a solid 20 minute guy in his prime.