Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build | Page 361 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

As they would say in the first year of SNL, Brian, 'Spinner' Spencer is still dead . . .
They should just hire Chris King and Greg Picker to interview Islanders of the past and see what happens. Something more odd than the fan favorites they put on the podcast. We need to see what Justin Dibenedetto and Shane Sims did with their lives after retirement from pro hockey.
 
why would we draft hagens when there are better prospects? idc if hes from the next town over its about getting the best talent. he isn't that.

Because there aren't necessarily better prospects.

Even Schaefer has a few question marks and has had little opportunity to answer them because he hasn't played since December.

Plenty out there see Misa as a guy whose junior goals and production aren't necessarily going to translate at higher levels (think Dylan Strome).

Martone has done nothing to decrease his draft standing and yet, we still see him moving down a notch here or there with Hagens.

McQueen has hardly played this year and was good but not dominant when he did.

Frondell was out a while, then exploded on the scene for a 2nd league Swedish team only to see his role decrease in the playoffs and now he's been just meh in three U18 WC games, granted, he's got plenty of teammates that score. Where does that have him?

Desnoyers has been a big riser.

***

This is the time of year where the players who aren't active start to suffer a bit in all the talk. Others are active and not producing much. They'll bring out some frowns too.

Fact is, Hagens came into this season looking like the Bedard of this draft class. He put up a PPG as a true freshman for a top program that came up short. He also had 9 points in 7 WJC contests and a gold medal as an 18-year-old, which is honestly outstanding.

He's the exact same size as Jack Hughes. That's also basically who he most compares to in expected future role and production.

There's no McDavid in this draft. There's no Makar.

Others look like very nice prospects too.

But there is little reason to think that 3-5 players in this draft are currently better than him - now and in the future.
 
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Where do you rank him? If this team has the #2, they basically have between 4 guys to choose from. It’s between Frondell, Hagens, Martone and Misa, assuming Schaefer is the consensus #1. They could easily trade down from 2 to 3 or 4 and take Hagens. Ideally Hagens to this team makes sense based on the optics of it. Outside of the 1, the other 4 are all a toss up and similar in terms of rankings.
Misa has been ranked #2 on most of the rankings I've seen, and I haven't seen any indication that this is a tossup between four guys (for reference: Central Scouting, Sportsnet, The Athletic, and Bob's survey of scouts ALL have Misa at 2). Meanwhile there is a lot of evidence that people on this board have rose-colored glasses for guys who were born on Long Island.
 
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Meanwhile there is a lot of evidence that people on this board have rose-colored glasses for guys who were born on Long Island.

Jerry Seinfeld?
Billy Joel?
Natalie Portman?
Rosie O'Donnell?

Okay, Rosie needed rose-colored glasses . . . or a blindfold
 
Because there aren't necessarily better prospects.

Even Schaefer has a few question marks and has had little opportunity to answer them because he hasn't played since December.

Plenty out there see Misa as a guy whose junior goals and production aren't necessarily going to translate at higher levels (think Dylan Strome).

Martone has done nothing to decrease his draft standing and yet, we still see him moving down a notch here or there with Hagens.

McQueen has hardly played this year and was good but not dominant when he did.

Frondell was out a while, then exploded on the scene for a 2nd league Swedish team only to see his role decrease in the playoffs and now he's been just meh in three U18 WC games, granted, he's got plenty of teammates that score. Where does that have him?

Desnoyers has been a big riser.

***

This is the time of year where the players who aren't active start to suffer a bit in all the talk. Others are active and not producing much. They'll bring out some frowns too.

Fact is, Hagens came into this season looking like the Bedard of this draft class. He put up a PPG as a true freshman for a top program that came up short. He also had 9 points in 7 WJC contests and a gold medal as an 18-year-old, which is honestly outstanding.

He's the exact same size as Jack Hughes. That's also basically who he most compares to in expected future role and production.

There's no McDavid in this draft. There's no Makar.

Others look like very nice prospects too.

But there is little reason to think that 3-5 players in this draft are currently better than him - now and in the future.
Well said, I am not so sure he drops that much. San Jose and Chicago will select Schaefer if they can, but Nashville, Boston, and Philadelphia will not pass on Hagens if they have the opportunity to draft him.
 
My point was more that Palms has to be willing as well. Doesn't matter what the Isles want to do if Palmeiri doesn't want to stay anymore. Don't think anybody is going to shed a tear over that other than another missed chance by LL for draft capital.
I think Palmieri is gone even if they hire Holland over a up and comer gm
 
Because there aren't necessarily better prospects.

Even Schaefer has a few question marks and has had little opportunity to answer them because he hasn't played since December.

Plenty out there see Misa as a guy whose junior goals and production aren't necessarily going to translate at higher levels (think Dylan Strome).

Martone has done nothing to decrease his draft standing and yet, we still see him moving down a notch here or there with Hagens.

McQueen has hardly played this year and was good but not dominant when he did.

Frondell was out a while, then exploded on the scene for a 2nd league Swedish team only to see his role decrease in the playoffs and now he's been just meh in three U18 WC games, granted, he's got plenty of teammates that score. Where does that have him?

Desnoyers has been a big riser.

***

This is the time of year where the players who aren't active start to suffer a bit in all the talk. Others are active and not producing much. They'll bring out some frowns too.

Fact is, Hagens came into this season looking like the Bedard of this draft class. He put up a PPG as a true freshman for a top program that came up short. He also had 9 points in 7 WJC contests and a gold medal as an 18-year-old, which is honestly outstanding.

He's the exact same size as Jack Hughes. That's also basically who he most compares to in expected future role and production.

There's no McDavid in this draft. There's no Makar.

Others look like very nice prospects too.

But there is little reason to think that 3-5 players in this draft are currently better than him - now and in the future.

Chap-

With total irony...Might this be the year to actually trade a top 10 pick as part of a deal for futher along young talent...?
 
Chap-

With total irony...Might this be the year to actually trade a top 10 pick as part of a deal for futher along young talent...?
Depending on who is available, I would probably move the 10th for Howard.

Dobson for Cirelli + Howard was another thought I had. The TB board seems interested in Dobson and trading Cirelli at peak value off the Selke nom before his NTC kicks in. 2026 Isles would look something like:

Howard - Horvat - Barzal
Eiserman - Cirelli - Holmstrom
Tsyplakov - Ritchie - Palmieri
Maclean - Cizikas - Gatcomb
 
Depending on who is available, I would probably move the 10th for Howard.

Dobson for Cirelli + Howard was another thought I had. The TB board seems interested in Dobson and trading Cirelli at peak value off the Selke nom before his NTC kicks in. 2026 Isles would look something like:

Howard - Horvat - Barzal
Eiserman - Cirelli - Holmstrom
Tsyplakov - Ritchie - Palmieri
Maclean - Cizikas - Gatcomb
IDK about that trade. The Isles need quality, not quantity. So if they're going to deal Dobson, I'd be looking for something more than likely 2nd liners. Cirelli is pretty much a 40-60 point player making $6M, and who is he getting ice time with on TBL?
 
Depending on who is available, I would probably move the 10th for Howard.

Dobson for Cirelli + Howard was another thought I had. The TB board seems interested in Dobson and trading Cirelli at peak value off the Selke nom before his NTC kicks in. 2026 Isles would look something like:

Howard - Horvat - Barzal
Eiserman - Cirelli - Holmstrom
Tsyplakov - Ritchie - Palmieri
Maclean - Cizikas - Gatcomb

So you want to get another good, but not great player that is 3 years older than Dobson? How many points does Cirelli put up without that deadly offense and PP around him? If we are moving Dobson it should be for a young top end player or A+ prospects/picks.
 
Depending on who is available, I would probably move the 10th for Howard.

Dobson for Cirelli + Howard was another thought I had. The TB board seems interested in Dobson and trading Cirelli at peak value off the Selke nom before his NTC kicks in. 2026 Isles would look something like:

Howard - Horvat - Barzal
Eiserman - Cirelli - Holmstrom
Tsyplakov - Ritchie - Palmieri
Maclean - Cizikas - Gatcomb

Tampa Bay is not in a strong enough bargaining position to acquire a #10 first round pick for a player they arguably might lose for nothing. The acquiring team also has no guarantee they can sign him. As @doublechili and @WangMustGo commented, Dobson needs to return a one for one solid player rather than a couple of decent parts.

Moving on to the line combinations, you have 3 players in the top 9 who have never even played an NHL game and Palmieri who could be a future albatross contract depending on how much term he can negotiate. The piece de resistance is the 4th line. That combination could be among the league’s worst. You’ve also now depleted your defense of youth and talent by trading Dobson.

In the words of Randy Jackson of early American Idol fame “It’s a no from me dawg.”
 
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Tampa Bay is not in a strong enough bargaining position to acquire a #10 first round pick for a player they arguably might lose for nothing. The acquiring team also has no guarantee they can sign him. As @doublechili and @WangMustGo commented, Dobson needs to return a one for one solid player rather than a couple of decent parts.

Moving on to the line combinations, you have 3 players in the top 9 who have never even played an NHL game and Palmieri who could be a future albatross contract depending on how much term he can negotiate. The piece de resistance is the 4th line. That combination could be among the league’s worst. You’ve also now depleted your defense of youth and talent by trading Dobson.

In the words of Randy Jackson of early American Idol fame “It’s a no from me dawg.”
They’re not at risk of losing him for nothing, that literally never happens. Check out the returns for McGroarty and Gauthier. Obviously no team is trading for Howard without knowing they can sign him, just as no team is trading for Dobson without knowing they can agree to a contract. Figured that was more or less implied.

As far as the lines… that’s how it works. Prospects get called up and play the roles that fit them. Would you prefer Eiserman and Ritchie play on the fourth line when the get to the team? Worked out great for Nino.

Palmieri taking a Hall type deal could not be an albatross and the fourth line is a fourth line - neither of which were really the point of the post. If we can trade Dobson for a Hobey Baker winner and probable Selke winner I’m on board. I think there’s value in adding one of the best PKers in the league given how bad ours has been. If you think they add I understand that… these guys aren’t spare parts though.
 
Given the names that will likely be available, 10th in a weak draft for an NHL ready player who was just named the best player in his league isn’t horrific to me.

Real simple way to gauge value...


If Howard was in the 2025 NHL Draft, where would he go?
 
Chap-

With total irony...Might this be the year to actually trade a top 10 pick as part of a deal for futher along young talent...?

There are certainly young NHLers out there worth moving this pick for.

My guestimate is that a new management group will not want to start things off by not making a first round selection at the draft.

Especially if one of the ideas of a new group coming in is that they'll be placing a different form of importance on the prospect bin.
 
Real simple way to gauge value...


If Howard was in the 2025 NHL Draft, where would he go?
Based off his draft year output? Somewhere around 10. The benefit is that you’ve seen him progress/don’t need to wait for a player to develop.

You’re buying time, as well as a level of certainty. It wouldn’t be unlike the Romanov trade, who was 22 at the time we traded the 13th for him. IMG_2051.png
 
There are certainly young NHLers out there worth moving this pick for.

My guestimate is that a new management group will not want to start things off by not making a first round selection at the draft.

Especially if one of the ideas of a new group coming in is that they'll be placing a different form of importance on the prospect bin.
More likely the new group trades up than trades the top 10 pick.
 
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Based off his draft year output? Somewhere around 10. The benefit is that you’ve seen him progress/don’t need to wait for a player to develop.

You’re buying time, as well as a level of certainty. It wouldn’t be unlike the Romanov trade, who was 22 at the time we traded the 13th for him.View attachment 1028882
Not sure I would make that trade. I would trade the 10th OA for a young NHL player - there are many RFAs out there that could possibly be had for the 10th
 
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