Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[periferal]

With how mid everyone is in the conference, they’d probably be in the Devils spot with average special teams. It would also carry over to late game defense thus being able to not blow leads with less then 3 minutes remaining.

As someone recently said on these boards...

"I don't deal in hypotheticals."

The fact is that the Islanders are a bottom half of the league team in almost every metric - And truly atrocious when it comes to spacial teams.

And...

Lou cannot fix it.

If you want the Isles to take the "Devils spot" - Much less become a Cup contender (the Devils are not), then you need to make changes. We've seen where this team is and where it's going and none of it is positive.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Oh...I'm sorry - Are there guarantees if Lou keeps doing whatever it is he's doing?

Yes, we’re guaranteed to be a middling franchise.

 

[Zeeker]

3rd in the metro over barely making it in as a wildcard, yes.

It’s still barely making it lol - the exact position doesn’t fool anyone.

I’m still not sure what the point is though - if it’s that the team would make the playoffs if they had better players, then of course sure I agree

 

[miscs75]

As someone recently said on these boards...

"I don't deal in hypotheticals."

The fact is that the Islanders are a bottom half of the league team in almost every metric - And truly atrocious when it comes to spacial teams.

And...

Lou cannot fix it.

If you want the Isles to take the "Devils spot" - Much less become a Cup contender (the Devils are not), then you need to make changes. We've seen where this team is and where it's going and none of it is positive.

I’m just talking this season in general based on the number of points they’ve given up from just defensive lapses alone. That more so speaks of how weak the East is outside of about 5-6 teams then the Isles being close. There are changes to be made but to go full scorched earth like what Habs/Canucks fans seem to think should happen is just downright stupid. If they go full scorched earth and trade everything for magic beans (prospects/picks), it’ll be 5 years of a team 08-09 level bad before they even think about competing again. Not worth doing that.

 

[Glory Days]

Oh...I'm sorry - Are there guarantees if Lou keeps doing whatever it is he's doing?

I'd argue there's more of a guarantee that the Isles continue to fade away from Cup contention then if we try a new path. That means not just a new GM, but a total investment into a youth movement that includes elite young talent.

I love every Islander who put on the uniform the last few years and gave us some great memories, but the last thing I want to do is watch (much less pay money to see) aging average talent continue to miss the playoffs...And get nowhere near a top 3 pick.





Here's the problem you're missing...

Both Panthers and Stars' core group of players was/is SO much better than the Isles "core" group. Sure most around here would say our core players are Sorokin, Barzal, Horvat, and Dobson (and yet many want him traded), but compare that to the top 4 players on any contending team and it's a joke how much of a gap there is to even consider this current Isles team close to competing for a Cup

You have to build your core group first...And it needs to be a LOT more talented than what the Isles have. Then you can talk about retooling, but you can't retool if you don't have a foundation. That's why I'd argue the Isles are still "building," and without hitting on a (top) draft pick(s), I don't see how they're going to get that top (young) talent to build there core.

So we agree that to win a team needs a very talented core. Something the Isles clearly don’t have. However other than Dobson, Horvat Barzal and Sorokin are all paid like core players. And if Lou stays on Dobson will likely also be paid like a core player. So isn’t the starting point on any rebuild/ retool involve trading the existing core to make room for a new core? The current Isles core is paid too much to be the second string on a contender.

 

[MJF]

3rd in the metro over barely making it in as a wildcard, yes.

The Devils have more speed and skill to propel them back into the playoffs. The Isles, even when healthy, can’t match them in any aspect except goaltending.

 

[periferal]

I’m just talking this season in general based on the number of points they’ve given up from just defensive lapses alone. That more so speaks of how weak the East is outside of about 5-6 teams then the Isles being close. There are changes to be made but to go full scorched earth like what Habs/Canucks fans seem to think should happen is just downright stupid. If they go full scorched earth and trade everything for magic beans (prospects/picks), it’ll be 5 years of a team 08-09 level bad before they even think about competing again. Not worth doing that.

1. So the "east is weak" - And yet we still couldn't make the playoffs in it. We actually might be even worse than we all thought!
2. What Hans fan thinks they should go "scorched earth" right now? That said they did decide to sell off assets years ago, suck for a few seasons, and look at them now...In the playoffs and we're not.
3. Got news for you...If the Isles did rebuild and it took "5 years of a team 08-09 level bad" and then they were contenders again, that's a hell of a lot better than the next 5+ years of watching all our vets slowly die off and continually missing the playoffs.

People around here acting like we have the core of the Lightning or Golden Knights and we just need a few tweaks. The reality is that people who are against a rebuild just don't want to suck like the Sharks or Blackhawks. It's too painful and they'd rather root for a middling team who can at least flirt with the 8th seed - Even if they have zero shot at a Cup each season.

 

[miscs75]

1. So the "east is weak" - And yet we still couldn't make the playoffs in it. We actually might be even worse than we all thought!
2. What Hans fan thinks they should go "scorched earth" right now? That said they did decide to sell off assets years ago, suck for a few seasons, and look at them now...In the playoffs and we're not.
3. Got news for you...If the Isles did rebuild and it took "5 years of a team 08-09 level bad" and then they were contenders again, that's a hell of a lot better than the next 5+ years of watching all our vets slowly die off and continually missing the playoffs.

People around here acting like we have the core of the Lightning or Golden Knights and we just need a few tweaks. The reality is that people who are against a rebuild just don't want to suck like the Sharks or Blackhawks. It's too painful and they'd rather root for a middling team who can at least flirt with the 8th seed - Even if they have zero shot at a Cup each season.

The team was essentially in it until 2 games ago even with how bad they are. That goes to show you how weak the East is including how bad the Isles were this year.
Just look at the commentary of all the trade threads. The offers for Dobson/Barzal/Horvat from those fanbases are just mediocre at best. It’s this years 1st, a mediocre defensive prospect and whatever filler they can toss in. You really think that’s going to make the team better? Not even close. It’s as bad as Leafs fans wanting Mayfield 3-4 years ago for Nick Robertson/Jeremy Bracco and a 2nd claiming he’s the future in scoring.
If you want to move Barzal fine but the return needs to include some form of quality forward prospect who’s just about NHL ready over a 1st and suspect guys with cap dumps to offset salary.
I’m not saying the team has a core similar to Colorado/Tampa/etc but they’re also not Chicago level bad if you look at it. The support players are just a disaster for this team. That’s where the issue lies. You go into next year with this as a chunk of the roster and go from there:

???-Horvat-Barzal
Holmstrom-???-???
Lee-Ritchie-Palmieri
Tsyplakov-???-Gatcomb

Romanov-???
???-Dobson
George-???

Figure out what to do with Pageau/Cizikas/Engvall/Duclair/Mayfield/Pelech/Pulock. Maclean can just be waived since he makes nothing essentially. Replace the pieces (or some of them) named in the first sentence with new faces at minimum and just see where the roster is. Even if one of the guys in the system is given the 4C spot.

 

[icelander25]

The team was essentially in it until 2 games ago even with how bad they are. That goes to show you how weak the East is including how bad the Isles were this year.
Just look at the commentary of all the trade threads. The offers for Dobson/Barzal/Horvat from those fanbases are just mediocre at best. It’s this years 1st, a mediocre defensive prospect and whatever filler they can toss in. You really think that’s going to make the team better? Not even close. It’s as bad as Leafs fans wanting Mayfield 3-4 years ago for Nick Robertson/Jeremy Bracco and a 2nd claiming he’s the future in scoring.
If you want to move Barzal fine but the return needs to include some form of quality forward prospect who’s just about NHL ready over a 1st and suspect guys with cap dumps to offset salary.
I’m not saying the team has a core similar to Colorado/Tampa/etc but they’re also not Chicago level bad if you look at it. The support players are just a disaster for this team. That’s where the issue lies. You go into next year with this as a chunk of the roster and go from there:

???-Horvat-Barzal
Holmstrom-???-???
Lee-Ritchie-Palmieri
Tsyplakov-???-Gatcomb

Romanov-???
???-Dobson
George-???

Figure out what to do with Pageau/Cizikas/Engvall/Duclair/Mayfield/Pelech/Pulock. Maclean can just be waived since he makes nothing essentially. Replace the pieces (or some of them) named in the first sentence with new faces at minimum and just see where the roster is. Even if one of the guys in the system is given the 4C spot.

Agree. I know it’s a complete longshot but getting Marner changes the complete trajectory for the team. Our top 4 immediately moves down to the 2-5 spots on a contending team which is a lot more palatable. I’m not trying to get my hopes up because there isn’t a lot to suggest he’d want to come here, but I’d definitely throw $14 mil and see if he bites.

 

[miscs75]

Agree. I know it’s a complete longshot but getting Marner changes the complete trajectory for the team. Our top 4 immediately moves down to the 2-5 spots on a contending team which is a lot more palatable. I’m not trying to get my hopes up because there isn’t a lot to suggest he’d want to come here, but I’d definitely throw $14 mil and see if he bites.

I didn't even go as far as saying Marner since they'd have to outbid other teams substantially but they do need to add more skill and speed into the lineup. Also adding Marner in would massively complicate the cap situation and as a result they'd be gutting the prospect pool to get rid of multiple contracts (Mayfield/Pelech/Pulock/Engvall/Duclair/Lee/Pageau) and that's not really smart for this team. Lou, assuming he's back, needs to get extremely creative with some deals. Possibly trade away a few of the veterans for some short term contracts to offset in hopes the new faces change the dynamic of the lineup.

 

[icelander25]

I didn't even go as far as saying Marner since they'd have to outbid other teams substantially but they do need to add more skill and speed into the lineup. Also adding Marner in would massively complicate the cap situation and as a result they'd be gutting the prospect pool to get rid of multiple contracts (Mayfield/Pelech/Pulock/Engvall/Duclair/Lee/Pageau) and that's not really smart for this team. Lou, assuming he's back, needs to get extremely creative with some deals. Possibly trade away a few of the veterans for some short term contracts to offset in hopes the new faces change the dynamic of the lineup.

I'm kinda assuming Lou or the next gm will get creative. If get Marner, than we can trade Dobson for younger cheaper pieces. Also, we dont need to get rid of everybody. At bare minimum losing Duclair or Engvall, Mayfield or Varly, & Pageau should be enough, especially if we move Dobson also. Now that's 3 or 4 trades so that may be too much for sleepy Lou but its pretty straightforward what we need to do to get cap space for a top free agent.

 

[periferal]

The team was essentially in it until 2 games ago even with how bad they are. That goes to show you how weak the East is including how bad the Isles were this year.
Just look at the commentary of all the trade threads. The offers for Dobson/Barzal/Horvat from those fanbases are just mediocre at best. It’s this years 1st, a mediocre defensive prospect and whatever filler they can toss in. You really think that’s going to make the team better? Not even close. It’s as bad as Leafs fans wanting Mayfield 3-4 years ago for Nick Robertson/Jeremy Bracco and a 2nd claiming he’s the future in scoring.
If you want to move Barzal fine but the return needs to include some form of quality forward prospect who’s just about NHL ready over a 1st and suspect guys with cap dumps to offset salary.
I’m not saying the team has a core similar to Colorado/Tampa/etc but they’re also not Chicago level bad if you look at it. The support players are just a disaster for this team. That’s where the issue lies. You go into next year with this as a chunk of the roster and go from there:

???-Horvat-Barzal
Holmstrom-???-???
Lee-Ritchie-Palmieri
Tsyplakov-???-Gatcomb

Romanov-???
???-Dobson
George-???

Figure out what to do with Pageau/Cizikas/Engvall/Duclair/Mayfield/Pelech/Pulock. Maclean can just be waived since he makes nothing essentially. Replace the pieces (or some of them) named in the first sentence with new faces at minimum and just see where the roster is. Even if one of the guys in the system is given the 4C spot.

So this non-playoff team needs to add THREE top 6 forwards and TWO top-4 defenseman this offseason. Do you understand that this kind of roster upheaval never happens in the NHL?

The way this roster is construted, there's no hope right now and just because you don't want to see the team tank/suck/rebuild doesn't change that fact. In tact, I think it's because you don't want to see the team rebuild is why you think there is hope.

 

[Zeeker]

In tact, I think it's because you don't want to see the team rebuild is why you think there is hope.

Thats 100% it.

People will craft an argument to reach their desired conclusion.

 

[miscs75]

So this non-playoff team needs to add THREE top 6 forwards and TWO top-4 defenseman this offseason. Do you understand that this kind of roster upheaval never happens in the NHL?

The way this roster is construted, there's no hope right now and just because you don't want to see the team tank/suck/rebuild doesn't change that fact. In tact, I think it's because you don't want to see the team rebuild is why you think there is hope.

It would take a lot of creativity and moving parts on managements end (Lou or whoever’s running the show). Not saying it’s going to happen over night but to sell off anything/everything on the roster with value to go scorched earth rebuild would set this team back close to a decade and essentially you’re becoming a Buffalo Sabres 2.0 with no real end in sight. The ??? could be filled from within or from outside if deals are made. Ideally if you move Dobson for other pieces to upgrade the roster, TDA becomes the short term replacement alongside Romanov.

 

[Sparksrus3]

I'm kinda assuming Lou or the next gm will get creative. If get Marner, than we can trade Dobson for younger cheaper pieces. Also, we dont need to get rid of everybody. At bare minimum losing Duclair or Engvall, Mayfield or Varly, & Pageau should be enough, especially if we move Dobson also. Now that's 3 or 4 trades so that may be too much for sleepy Lou but its pretty straightforward what we need to do to get cap space for a

top free agent.

Do you mean like an Andrew Ladd top free agent ? Greiss, Streit , Miro Satan ? Nobody comes here and certainly not now we are getting worse each year. As for Duclair,Engvall,and Mayfield those contracts will die in Elmont or in Bridgeport . Trade Dobson to get younger cheaper ? So you are full rebuild ? Rom & Dob are two D you build around . Pageau can stay . He is an asset , if we suck again next season which we will he can be traded at the deadline or before it for some Shane Prince lookalike that will never amount to anything . Maybe we could go with an all waiver D corps . Sorokin would love that

 

[periferal]

It would take a lot of creativity and moving parts on managements end (Lou or whoever’s running the show). Not saying it’s going to happen over night but to sell off anything/everything on the roster with value to go scorched earth rebuild would set this team back close to a decade and essentially you’re becoming a Buffalo Sabres 2.0 with no real end in sight. The ??? could be filled from within or from outside if deals are made. Ideally if you move Dobson for other pieces to upgrade the roster, TDA becomes the short term replacement alongside Romanov.

To discuss a rebuild and only mention the Sabres without also mentioning how we could be the Lightning,Avs, Penguins, Panthers, and others is so disingenuous. You're cherry picking to justify your fear of rebuilding - When it's rebuilding that is the actually the way most Cup winners are built.

If you said that you don't have the stomach for a rebuild and would rather watch an average hockey team - Even if they have no Cup hopes then I can totally respect that. But if you truly want this team to have a shot at a Stanley Cup then they need 2-3 elite young prospects to build a real "core," and those are the players almost exclusively acquired via very high draft picks.

 

[MJF]

Thats 100% it.

People will craft an argument to reach their desired conclusion.

Some folks here are still shellshocked from 1995-2014 that they’ll justify anythjng to avoid a proper rebuild

 

[Top Corner]

I am a huge advocate for roster change, based on the fact they’ve been decimated by key injuries all year , coupled with a pretty pathetic PP & PK, no one here should have thought they would still be hanging around in late March.
The fact is they were which means something is decent. The moment D”Angelo showed up, their style changed and they got a glimpse that they need to get faster and mobile. Let’s see how much they can move this offseason, I think if they make the right trades, we could see a big jump next year.

 

[miscs75]

To discuss a rebuild and only mention the Sabres without also mentioning how we could be the Lightning,Avs, Penguins, Panthers, and others is so disingenuous. You're cherry picking to justify your fear of rebuilding - When it's rebuilding that is the actually the way most Cup winners are built.

If you said that you don't have the stomach for a rebuild and would rather watch an average hockey team - Even if they have no Cup hopes then I can totally respect that. But if you truly want this team to have a shot at a Stanley Cup then they need 2-3 elite young prospects to build a real "core," and those are the players almost exclusively acquired via very high draft picks.

The reason why I said Buffalo is because this team is more likely to turn into that with a rebuild over what happened with Tampa. Pittsburgh lucked out with a generational talent, same as Edmonton.
So say you sell off everything, the return needs to be worth it. Based on what we saw from other fanbases, it’s really not. Without hitting McKenna and/or DuPont in the draft, you have to hope this team can actually develop talent and not just pick another pile of Wahlstrom/Bellows/MDC/Ho-Sang/Reinhart busts. We saw how well development of players has gone with the quality Bridgeport has been over the past who knows how many years.

 

[Run It Back]

People will craft an argument to reach their desired conclusion.

I thought we weren't allowed to talk politics here?

 

[Chockey22]

If somehow the Isles are in on Marner (and I fully expect he will either resign in Toronto or use the Isles to increase other offers) that seems the quickest path to a retool that doesn't involve a complete tear down. There would likely be some cap moves made, but I think they could move Pageau and one of Pulock or Pelech without giving up assets.
Whether adding Marner alone is enough to move the needle on this team is another question. For sure he'd help the PP and PK , and the first line 5 on 5 play as well, but there are so many other holes to fill, I worry that even adding the top UFA would not help enough.
An additional problem is that the moves needed to prepare for Marner's arrival would likely need to take place at the draft; before you know if he's even remotely interested.
My worry is they play it on the fly like they always do - they'll clear a bit of cap space at the draft in the hopes of landing the big UFA, then strike out on that player and rather than commit to a bigger retool, they'll panic and waste the accrued cap space on another mediocre vet.

 

[doublechili]

Thats 100% it.

People will craft an argument to reach their desired conclusion.

Finally a post that everyone can agree on!

 

[LeapOnOver]

The team was essentially in it until 2 games ago even with how bad they are. That goes to show you how weak the East is including how bad the Isles were this year.
Just look at the commentary of all the trade threads. The offers for Dobson/Barzal/Horvat from those fanbases are just mediocre at best. It’s this years 1st, a mediocre defensive prospect and whatever filler they can toss in. You really think that’s going to make the team better? Not even close. It’s as bad as Leafs fans wanting Mayfield 3-4 years ago for Nick Robertson/Jeremy Bracco and a 2nd claiming he’s the future in scoring.
If you want to move Barzal fine but the return needs to include some form of quality forward prospect who’s just about NHL ready over a 1st and suspect guys with cap dumps to offset salary.
I’m not saying the team has a core similar to Colorado/Tampa/etc but they’re also not Chicago level bad if you look at it. The support players are just a disaster for this team. That’s where the issue lies. You go into next year with this as a chunk of the roster and go from there:

???-Horvat-Barzal
Holmstrom-???-???
Lee-Ritchie-Palmieri
Tsyplakov-???-Gatcomb

Romanov-???
???-Dobson
George-???

Figure out what to do with Pageau/Cizikas/Engvall/Duclair/Mayfield/Pelech/Pulock. Maclean can just be waived since he makes nothing essentially. Replace the pieces (or some of them) named in the first sentence with new faces at minimum and just see where the roster is. Even if one of the guys in the system is given the 4C spot.

Exactly.....the east is so sad that if we had just had a 20th ranked PP and PK, we'd have made the playoffs with this roster, AND Barzal hurt.

 

[IslesNorway]

The Isles will not rebuild simply because they CANNOT rebuild. Rebuilds happen when teams have plenty of expiring contracts and a clear end in sight. The Isles have neither. Too many players tied up for too long and not many players who can be moved without a similar contract coming back. If Lou isn't willing to move the likes of Pageau for picks then there is not enough cap space to be real players in free agency or in the trade market.He could've cleared a lot of cap at the deadline but chose not to. Obviously that only prolongs the status quo, but status quo is what they believe in.

Isles aren't getting Marner or anyone else of that caliber, and changing your 4th line by dumping Fasching, McLean and Martin isn't going to change much. A new GM and a clear direction is what is needed the most, but don't count on it.

 

[LeapOnOver]

If MTL can't get a point against Carolina, and CBJ gets a regulation win, that final game against the Isles could have a lot of Canadiens fans rooting for us, lol.