Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[YearlyLottery]

And the best coaches in the business know which players need which approach. Jury is still out on Roy, considering there is maybe a handful of players that have taken a step forward this season (Holmstrom? George? Boqvist? TDA?)

Roy may end up being the victim of a not great roster and an outgoing GM. I don't think he has done a bad job here, but I also will not be upset if they get rid of Roy. I do not believe the roster is good enough to do much of anything.

 

[doublechili]

If you think it's Lou I think you should say that. That being said, you also don't have any actual evidence to prove this aside from a blogger. It is just as reasonable to think the PR team did it as well.

Right. Maybe it was Lou, but maybe the PR Dept beat him to it. "Hey, should we lead with the part where our coach says our player stinks, or should we maybe try to make that go away?"

There's enough "evidence" to convict Lou without needing to speculate about stuff like this. Personal grudges (cough, Botta, cough) aside.

 

[doublechili]

Roy may end up being the victim of a not great roster and an outgoing GM. I don't think he has done a bad job here, but I also will not be upset if they get rid of Roy. I do not believe the roster is good enough to do much of anything.

I guess the possibilities are:

1. Lou and Roy both stay;
2. Lou stays and Roy goes;
3. Lou goes and Roy stays;
4. Lou and Roy both go.

I think it's an understatement to say that most of the board would not do cartwheels over either 1 or 2.

I'm not sure what the point is of #3., especially since you can't say Roy was Toe Blake reincarnated with some of his decision-making (not to mention the special teams....).

IMO, the front office and coaching staff is like a bad loaf of sour dough bread at this point. It's time to stop taking a little of the dough from the last batch and adding it to the next one. Sign me up for a total house-cleaning. So I guess I'm in favor of a management tear down rebuild.

 

[doublechili]

Re: Duclair, I wonder if part of the reason Roy was so ticked off was that he tried to throw him a bone/build his confidence by giving him a shot in the SO (when Duclair flubbed the puck), and Duclair repaid that with a subpar effort. So he decided to vent and kick some ass.

 

[isles55]

Why is Reilly not playing?

 

[YearlyLottery]

Right. Maybe it was Lou, but maybe the PR Dept beat him to it. "Hey, should we lead with the part where our coach says our player stinks, or should we maybe try to make that go away?"

There's enough "evidence" to convict Lou without needing to speculate about stuff like this. Personal grudges (cough, Botta, cough) aside.

Bingo. This board is becoming a dick measuring contest of how much you hate Lou for some. It's a complete joke and takes away from any actual discussion.

I guess the possibilities are:

1. Lou and Roy both stay;
2. Lou stays and Roy goes;
3. Lou goes and Roy stays;
4. Lou and Roy both go.

I think it's an understatement to say that most of the board would not do cartwheels over either 1 or 2.

I'm not sure what the point is of #3., especially since you can't say Roy was Toe Blake reincarnated with some of his decision-making (not to mention the special teams....).

IMO, the front office and coaching staff is like a bad loaf of sour dough bread at this point. It's time to stop taking a little of the dough from the last batch and adding it to the next one. Sign me up for a total house-cleaning. So I guess I'm in favor of a management tear down rebuild.

My wife makes fresh sour dough all the time and the fact that I just completely understood that analogy is hilarious. Off topic, but if any of you struggle with eating bread/pasta start making it fresh. Crazy how much better we feel without all of the preservatives in our food.

ANYWAY. I am fine with 2 or 3. I would be more fine with 1 then I would 2. I think 2 is the worst case unless Lou somehow pulls another Trotz away from somewhere which is easier said than done.

 

[MJF]

Why is Reilly not playing?

Roy was trying to spark something, anything, on the power play so Boqvist went in.

But the real answer is because Pulock, Pelech, and Dobson are entrenched.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I guess the possibilities are:

1. Lou and Roy both stay;
2. Lou stays and Roy goes;
3. Lou goes and Roy stays;
4. Lou and Roy both go.

I think it's an understatement to say that most of the board would not do cartwheels over either 1 or 2.

I'm not sure what the point is of #3., especially since you can't say Roy was Toe Blake reincarnated with some of his decision-making (not to mention the special teams....).

IMO, the front office and coaching staff is like a bad loaf of sour dough bread at this point. It's time to stop taking a little of the dough from the last batch and adding it to the next one. Sign me up for a total house-cleaning. So I guess I'm in favor of a management tear down rebuild.

THE CLASH
Sorry, the song was ringing in my head after reading stay & go multiple times.

I kinda hate option #3 - I feel like it leads to a power struggle in the future.
Does Roy have any input on who his GM will be?
If yes, then you've basically given him more power than the GM because he was able to pick his guy.
If no, there's a chance they have different philosophies and never mesh.

I'd rather fire both. Start from scratch with a new GM and then if the new GM wants to re-interview Roy and ultimately re-hire then he can. But clean house first.

 

[doublechili]

if the new GM wants to re-interview Roy and ultimately re-hire then he can.

I didn't think of that - good point. But yeah, I like the "clean house" option too.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I didn't think of that - good point. But yeah, I like the "clean house" option too.

I think back to when the Jets fired Tannenbaum but retained Rex. Then forced Rex to work with new GM Idzik who was a nerdy "capologist" - I think everyone knew that was going to end badly, and it did.

Say Malkin was really intrigued by the fancy analytics and went with someone like Dubas to pivot away from the old style philosophy Lou has, do you really think a forced Dubas-esque GM & Roy marriage would work?

 

[MJF]

I think back to when the Jets fired Tannenbaum but retained Rex. Then forced Rex to work with new GM Idzik who was a nerdy "capologist" - I think everyone knew that was going to end badly, and it did.

Say Malkin was really intrigued by the fancy analytics and went with someone like Dubas to pivot away from the old style philosophy Lou has, do you really think a forced Dubas-esque GM & Roy marriage would work?

You let a new GM hire his coach. Clean house is best.

 

[doublechili]

Say Malkin was really intrigued by the fancy analytics and went with someone like Dubas to pivot away from the old style philosophy Lou has

My suspicion is that if a change is made, that's exactly what Malkin would do. Not necessarily the Dubas part (having Barzal on the team and Dubas as GM might cause some people here to vaporize ), but my based-on-not-much hunch is that he goes very modern if he replaces Lou. And that's actually what I'm hoping for.

When the Blackhawks were looking for a new GM they interviewed an Asst GM with the Cubs. They hired someone else as GM, but then they hired the Cubs guy as Associate GM. Ultimately, it's an asset maximization position that requires different skills than teams traditionally have looked for. Get someone who can balance and maximize assets, and they can rely on scouts to decide on what specific assets to obtain or jettison.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

My suspicion is that if a change is made, that's exactly what Malkin would do. Not necessarily the Dubas part (having Barzal on the team and Dubas as GM might cause some people here to vaporize ), but my based-on-not-much hunch is that he goes very modern if he replaces Lou. And that's actually what I'm hoping for.

When the Blackhawks were looking for a new GM they interviewed an Asst GM with the Cubs. They hired someone else as GM, but then they hired the Cubs guy as Associate GM. Ultimately, it's an asset maximization position that requires different skills than teams traditionally have looked for. Get someone who can balance and maximize assets, and they can rely on scouts to decide on what specific assets to obtain or jettison.

With words like that, let's throw your hat in the ring!

Jokes aside, I definitely agree. At the same time, I'm not fully on board with such an overcorrection like hiring a GM from a different league just because they're an analytical genius.

A perfect candidate to me would be a former player who is super into/knowledgeable fancy stats. I don't think we can go from Lou to full-nerd, we should be somewhere in the middle. Not sure if that guy exists.

 

[MJF]

A perfect candidate to me would be a former player who is super into/knowledgeable fancy stats. I don't think we can go from Lou to full-nerd, we should be somewhere in the middle. Not sure if that guy exists.

You just described Patrick Roy. Not advocating for him, but Roy is big into analytics.

 

[doublechili]

With words like that, let's throw your hat in the ring!

Jokes aside, I definitely agree. At the same time, I'm not fully on board with such an overcorrection like hiring a GM from a different league just because they're an analytical genius.

A perfect candidate to me would be a former player who is super into/knowledgeable fancy stats. I don't think we can go from Lou to full-nerd, we should be somewhere in the middle. Not sure if that guy exists.

Yeah, by saying Malkin might go "modern" and then mentioning the baseball guy I didn't necessarily mean that's what he'd do (or should do). Just giving an example that the times they are a changin'.

 

[periferal]

If you think it's Lou I think you should say that. That being said, you also don't have any actual evidence to prove this aside from a blogger. It is just as reasonable to think the PR team did it as well.

Got news for you...The guy who has been vigilantly controlling the PR team when it comes to announcing trades and NOT announcing contracts, is also going to control them if it stops something he deems objectionable from coming out.

And if that obvious conjecture isn't enough proof for you, well then consider that the PR team is hired (and can be fired) by the team President. So even if the PR team acted on their own accord, it's their boss who's responsible for them (and everything else).

Now let's go to the business directory and see if the President is a different person than the GM....

 

[YearlyLottery]

Got news for you...The guy who has been vigilantly controlling the PR team when it comes to announcing trades and NOT announcing contracts, is also going to control them if it stops something he deems objectionable from coming out.

And if that obvious conjecture isn't enough proof for you, well then consider that the PR team is hired (and can be fired) by the team President. So even if the PR team acted on their own accord, it's their boss who's responsible for them (and everything else).

Now let's go to the business directory and see if the President is a different person than the GM....

I'm sure Lou is spending his team hiring people in the PR Department. Do you actually believe that? At 80 years old Lou is interviewing people to run the PR Department.

 

[periferal]

I'm sure Lou is spending his team hiring people in the PR Department. Do you actually believe that? At 80 years old Lou is interviewing people to run the PR Department.

Using your logic...But you have no proof that he doesn't.

That said you only have to be minimally observant to notice how communication between the team and fans/media has notably changed since Mr. Control-it-all has taken over. Do you remember when Isles trades were rumored/leaked prior to them being officially executed. Now the only way to find out an Islanders trade or signing is to wait for "them" to announce it.

I mean how do we KNOW that Lou isn't letting Chris make most of the decisions and Lou just executes them? We can go round and round forever playing the "but you don't have proof" game. The way Lou works we're never going to have absolute proof of anything that happens inside the walls of Islanders HQ. However you can draw some very logical conclusions based on the way we see the team works.

One such conclusion is that the team President is ultimately responsible for everything that happens on and off the ice for the Islanders. Short of owner the President has the most power/control. So any success or failure the Isles endure is ultimately Lou's responsibility.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Using your logic...But you have no proof that he doesn't.

That said you only have to be minimally observant to notice how communication between the team and fans/media has notably changed since Mr. Control-it-all has taken over. Do you remember when Isles trades were rumored/leaked prior to them being officially executed. Now the only way to find out an Islanders trade or signing is to wait for "them" to announce it.

I mean how do we KNOW that Lou isn't letting Chris make most of the decisions and Lou just executes them? We can go round and round forever playing the "but you don't have proof" game. The way Lou works we're never going to have absolute proof of anything that happens inside the walls of Islanders HQ. However you can draw some very logical conclusions based on the way we see the team works.

One such conclusion is that the team President is ultimately responsible for everything that happens on and off the ice for the Islanders. Short of owner the President has the most power/control. So any success or failure the Isles endure is ultimately Lou's responsibility.

I'm not the one making claims that the GM is interviewing PR people. The second piece of bolded is you moving the goal posts. I am FINE with the bolded, but I do believe some of your takes about the overall scope of the lengths Lou is going in his power is absurd.

But I also don't think we will ever have the statistical basis to further have a productive conversation here lol.

 

[PK Cronin]

Got news for you...The guy who has been vigilantly controlling the PR team when it comes to announcing trades and NOT announcing contracts, is also going to control them if it stops something he deems objectionable from coming out.

And if that obvious conjecture isn't enough proof for you, well then consider that the PR team is hired (and can be fired) by the team President. So even if the PR team acted on their own accord, it's their boss who's responsible for them (and everything else).

Now let's go to the business directory and see if the President is a different person than the GM....

It's completely possible that Roy wanted that part edited out. You won't know the real answer unless someone asks but even if someone other than Roy took ownership for the edit you'd still find a way to blame him.

 

[YearlyLottery]

You just described Patrick Roy. Not advocating for him, but Roy is big into analytics.

I'm not entirely against having Roy as the GM but I also have zero idea at how good of a job he would do managing an entire organization. I do like how most of the former players hired as GM's tend to work out fairly well though as of late. Roy could also still be fine as the coach though.

The fact that he kept the team in a playoff race after selling at the deadline and somehow got them into the playoffs last year without Barzal says a lot in my opinion.

I think ownership will not get rid of anyone and allow Lou to continue moving assets to make this team younger and faster to fit a Roy type of system.

 

[Big L]

Jesus fvck you people. Hire some analytical twit? Like Dubas? Dubas fvcking sucks! Why tf would anyone want to hire someone like him? Hell you can probably just hire him directly, he sucks in Pitt as well and will likely be out of a job there soon enough. Holy fvck were you all dropped on your heads when you were kids or something?

Hire Roy for GM? Look at Trotz for exhibit A. Did the same things y’all skewer Lou for doing. No thanks. Not fer nuthin, Roy kinda sucks as a coach. “The fact that he kept the team in a playoff race after selling at the deadline”? It’s because the bottom 9 in the eastern conference FVCKING SUCK!!! not because of Roy and any sort of mad genius.

Give me a fvcking break.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Jesus fvck you people. Hire some analytical twit? Like Dubas? Dubas fvcking sucks! Why tf would anyone want to hire someone like him? Hell you can probably just hire him directly, he sucks in Pitt as well and will likely be out of a job there soon enough. Holy fvck were you all dropped on your heads when you were kids or something?

Hire Roy for GM? Look at Trotz for exhibit A. Did the same things y’all skewer Lou for doing. No thanks. Not fer nuthin, Roy kinda sucks as a coach. “The fact that he kept the team in a playoff race after selling at the deadline”? It’s because the bottom 9 in the eastern conference FVCKING SUCK!!! not because of Roy and any sort of mad genius.

Give me a fvcking break.

The real answer for who to hire for GM involves a little bit of luck and a little bit of right person at the right time. Lou for example was 100% the right hire when we lost Tavares to bring stability to the organization and instant credibility, but for the upcoming offseason there is plenty of reason to not want him back. There are other organizations who would kill for Lou to come in, give them credibility, and show what a true organization should be run like.

Trotz had a rough offseason that was originally hailed as a success as the team was coming off a solid postseason appearance. He will figure it out.

Whether or not Roy sucks as the head coach.... Do you think the roster the last two seasons (minus Barzal for large amounts of time) were actually postseason worthy? They traded Nelson at the deadline and we were ready to turn in the towel and all of the sudden they were playing solid hockey. Last season he had them go on an insane run at the end of the season to make the playoffs back from the dead.

Whether or not you want to give credit is up to you. But there ARE reasons to bring Roy back. The reasons for bringing Lou back though would really just be based on what he accomplished his first couple of seasons here and if he could do that again.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

You just described Patrick Roy. Not advocating for him, but Roy is big into analytics.

GM / Coach Roy. Maybe he can backup Sorokin and too!

 

[MJF]

GM / Coach Roy. Maybe he can backup Sorokin and too!

And hire Garth Snow to be his assistant GM.