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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

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LAIcelanders said:
What? You asked if that was what 65 point centers get paid. First, he totals higher than that. Second, I rifled off a few players that all get paid around there. I guess that’s what they get paid.
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When does Barzal total higher than 65 points? His rookie year and last year. The other 5 seasons? Nope.

The one making $11.6M scored 40 goals once and had seasons of 102 points and 89 points when he signed that deal. The one making $9.85 signed it 5 years go after scoring 33 goals (which would be a wet dream for Barzal) and was immediately considered an overpay for a declining player. Context, if you don't mind. And name names.

Bottom line is most of the centers getting paid around what Barzal gets paid score more goals than Barzal. A lot more goals. Nobody gets $9.1M to be a set up man.
 
MJF said:
When does Barzal total higher than 65 points? His rookie year and last year. The other 5 seasons? Nope.

The one making $11.6M scored 40 goals once and had seasons of 102 points and 89 points when he signed that deal. The one making $9.85 signed it 5 years go after scoring 33 goals (which would be a wet dream for Barzal) and was immediately considered an overpay for a declining player. Context, if you don't mind. And name names.

Bottom line is most of the centers getting paid around what Barzal gets paid score more goals than Barzal. A lot more goals. Nobody gets $9.1M to be a set up man.
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2 years covid shortened seasons and 2 years cut short on injuries pacing close to 80 those seasons. C'mon brother. Easily would be 20 goal scorer in full seasons while controlling play all game. The value of 9.1 is just fine
 
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mm11 said:
2 years covid shortened seasons and 2 years cut short on injuries pacing close to 80 those seasons. C'mon brother. Easily would be 20 goal scorer in full seasons while controlling play all game. The value of 9.1 is just fine
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We grumble about injuries being a factor that makes Adam Pelech's contract an overpay. So why is Barzal a sacred cow in this one? And again 20 goals for Barzal is not enough to warrant getting the overpay he did. If he had 70 assists to go with those 20 goals then it's a different story.
 
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MJF said:
We grumble about injuries being a factor that makes Adam Pelech's contract an overpay. So why is Barzal a sacred cow in this one? And again 20 goals for Barzal is not enough to warrant getting the overpay he did. If he had 70 assists to go with those 20 goals then it's a different story.
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maybe the plethora of finishers he has may help eh? Fair enough on two injury riddled seasons. 9.1 is just fine and just gonna have to agree to disagree LGI
 
MJF said:
When does Barzal total higher than 65 points? His rookie year and last year. The other 5 seasons? Nope.
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just so everyone is on the same page, Barzal has averaged 72 points per 82 for his career.

It’s true that Barzal and Pelech have played around the same amount of games over the last 5 years. The biggest difference between them is probably that when Barzal plays he averages 72 points per 82, and Pelech really hasn’t looked the same since his glut of injuries.
 
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impaaaaaact said:
just so everyone is on the same page, Barzal has averaged 72 points per 82 for his career.

It’s true that Barzal and Pelech have played around the same amount of games over the last 5 years. The biggest difference between them is probably that when Barzal plays he averages 72 points per 82, and Pelech really hasn’t looked the same since his glut of injuries.
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With stiffling defensive structures and without 10 million dollar wingers.
 
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impaaaaaact said:
just so everyone is on the same page, Barzal has averaged 72 points per 82 for his career.

It’s true that Barzal and Pelech have played around the same amount of games over the last 5 years. The biggest difference between them is probably that when Barzal plays he averages 72 points per 82, and Pelech really hasn’t looked the same since his glut of injuries.
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I only mention Barzal’s injury history because I find it’s becoming problematic. Surgery on a broken kneecap worries me for a guy whose best asset is his edges.
 
mm11 said:
First year of the big contract the kid posts 80 points ... What's the problemo?
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In 8 seasons he has only broken the 80 pt. mark twice....
His average over 8 full seasons is 57.75 pts per year.
I love Matty B.... However 57 pts avg every year is not good enough.
 
mm11 said:
First year of the big contract the kid posts 80 points ... What's the problemo?
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There was no basis for Barzal to be paid this much. I always use Jordan Kyrou ($8.1M/yr) as the comp for Barzal. According to your argument Barzal wasn’t even averaging 70 points a season at the time Lou signed him. Paying Lou back with an 80 point season in Year 1 of this deal is rather underwhelming.
 
MJF said:
I only mention Barzal’s injury history because I find it’s becoming problematic. Surgery on a broken kneecap worries me for a guy whose best asset is his edges.
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It could be. Hoping they don't rush him back for some playoff push or for the first round if we make it. Think it would be incredibly dumb
 
MJF said:
There was no basis for Barzal to be paid this much. I always use Jordan Kyrou ($8.1M/yr) as the comp for Barzal. According to your argument Barzal wasn’t even averaging 70 points a season at the time Lou signed him. Paying Lou back with an 80 point season in Year 1 of this deal is rather underwhelming.
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Barzal was also a much better player under Trotz though as well which suppressed his point totals. I think after Trotz his production increased but his overall play decreased. Lou gave him a big contract, better linemates, a more offensive minded system, and the production BARELY increased.

I'm usually not short of opinions but I am not really sure what to do at this point aside from trade Dobson for a top tier offensive piece. They have given two robins huge deals in Horvat and Barzal. These are players who are capable of putting up elite seasons when they have a batman on the roster. Barzal's best season was when Tavares was here and Horvat had his best season when he had a plethora of better players in Vancouver.

Unless this team wins the lottery or signs Marner (both highly unlikely) they probably need to trade Dobson at this point. I'm not even sure Dobson is worth the insane contract he is about to get either. Keeping Dobson should eventually lead to another Barzal/Horvat situation on the defensive end.
 
MJF said:
The others got paid for past production. Lou paid Barzal for future numbers that haven’t materialized yet.
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wait... he put up a PPG season immediately after signing the contract. Then got hurt.

My whole thing with the Barzal fixation is that like, did Lou potentially have to slightly overpay him because he's the best player on our team? Yeah, he's potentially maybe .5M overpaid. That's just really not a big deal though.

This issue is that there's not a better player on the team at the same time as him, and there really only was for one year, when he was a rookie. Then there was like a 5 year stretch where he was light years ahead of anyone playing with him, and then finally another player approaching his caliber was brought in... which immediately resulted in another PPG year.

Yes, Barzal is not a "put the team on his back" every game type of player, nor is he being paid like it. In a perfect world he would be the #2 guy, but that's not the situation we're in. The whole "he's not playing up to his contract" thing is silly to me though.

If he comes back from injury and doesn't look the same, then we have a Barzal problem. For now it's really a Lou problem.
 
MarsTBOW said:
His average over 8 full seasons is 57.75 pts per year.
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This is a bit unfair, you are counting the 2 Covid seasons plus time he was injured into you 82 game a year stats. Going by PPG he averages 0.87 which would be 71 points over 82 games.

Next I am guessing you will say but he gets injured alot, i averages out over 8 seasons(Including the 2 Covid Ones) and it's less than 11 games per year. Now one can argue if we are good enough we can use those injuries to our benefit(see Chicago with Patrick Kane or Tampa with Kucherov being injured, helping them at the trade deadline make deals to put them over the top)
 
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boredmale said:
This is a bit unfair, you are counting the 2 Covid seasons plus time he was injured into you 82 game a year stats. Going by PPG he averages 0.87 which would be 71 points over 82 games.

Next I am guessing you will say but he gets injured alot, i averages out over 8 seasons(Including the 2 Covid Ones) and it's less than 11 games per year. Now one can argue if we are good enough we can use those injuries to our benefit(see Chicago with Patrick Kane or Tampa with Kucherov being injured, helping them at the trade deadline make deals to put them over the top)
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Being injured helps no one....
My point is 57.75 pts for $9,150,000
Worth it?
Nope.....
 
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MarsTBOW said:
Being injured helps no one....
My point is 57.75 pts for $9,150,000
Worth it?
Nope.....
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If a guy is on LTIR you get cap relief which for teams up against the cap you almost need it or it helps come the deadline.

And as I said 57.75 points for season sort of undersells how much he scores on average, especially if you count the 2 Covid seasons as full 82 game seasons which has nothing to do with being injured
 
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MJF said:
The gymnastics being done here to defend Barzal’s salary is stunning.
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this is the kind of thing people post when they have no way of responding to a post that directly quoted them, straight out of the Throttle handbook. @ me next time, I won't bite.

If the issue is his salary, how much is he overpaid by? .5M? 1M? And if that's what you believe, where do you think "most dynamic player in the franchise is overpaid by 1M" ranks on the list of islanders issues?

Maybe the issue is that the team should have more than one dynamic player. But that's what I said in my last post, so I guess that qualifies as gymnastics :rolleyes:
 
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MarsTBOW said:
Being injured helps no one....
My point is 57.75 pts for $9,150,000
Worth it?
Nope.....
Click to expand...
I'd say real gymnastics are choosing to ignore how many games are played in a season lmao, pretty difficult to cherry pick any harder than that. But that would actually effect everyone, so here's how other players look applying that rule.

Horvat (8.5M): 54.5
Nelson (TBD): 53.625
Lee (7M): 44.5

Barzal has lead the team in points every year of his career(!!) except the 2 where he's had injuries... and even with those injuries he leads all Isles forwards in PPG(including games he's missed) over that time, which spans his entire career. I personally find that pretty difficult to complain about but seems like I might be in the minority here.
 
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Anyway... in other news, MTL lost and CBJ made a crazy comeback against the nucks. 3 goal deficit erased in the second, then a two goal deficit erased in the third... only to have one called back for goaltender interference. Got that one back, then took the lead with 3 minutes left. Gave another one up 30 seconds later. Crazy game.

Anyway they leapfrogged us and MTL
 
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