Well yeah.... because the world isn't black and white. One was recovering from a physical injury, the other, from his feelings being hurt, lol.
Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build
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Anyone else start to feel the light enter their lives again when this place was gone?
Is there a point where you're going to stop bringing up Barzal stats from 3 years ago and direct that energy to what Horvat is doing right now?
I blame Perif for the outage . . .
He needs to be put on a 10-rant per day limit . . . climate change requires it. Think of the children!
He needs to be put on a 10-rant per day limit . . . climate change requires it. Think of the children!
Awesome! Now he's got 5 points in 14 games since Barzal has been out. He was a +1 tonight so that brings him up to a -11 over that period too. Extrapolates to a 30 point -65 player. But hey, at least we lost!
Are we really trying to compare these players? Bc when was the last time a player was -65 in nhl history?
No, what we're doing is seeing if you'll apply your same arguments about how horrible Barzal is to any other players. Barzal goes 17 games without a goal? Proof he's terrible! Petterson goes 15 games without a goal? Let's acquire him! Higher cap hit, locker room issues, compete level questions, potential lingering injury? Who cares!
Barzal produces at a 65 point clip playing on a line with Wahlstrom and Parise? He's a floater, reliant on other players. Horvat produces at a 30 point clip playing with Lee and Palmieri? Line driver, leader, gets pucks to the net, plays the game the right way.
At least all of the "we're better without him" stuff seems to have gone away, and I want Petterson too. But a little objectivity here and there would probably go a long way to making a coherent point.
I would definitely shop Horvat around this summer. I don’t think he’s worth anything near 8.5 per year. He got tgat contract coming off a career year. He has value and could net us a good amount of young talent. We aren’t winning the cup with him as one of our 2 best forwards.
in his 59 games he has 7 even strength goals and only 24 even strength points. He sucks. You rip on Barzal who only has 2 less even strength goals in 29 less games. Let’s not forget Pettersson plays with Hughes who runs the PP. Pettersson is not the player you are making him out to be. Stay far away from him. You think Barzal is soft and sucks? Just wait until you watch Pettersson. The Canucks have no top 6 center to replace Pettersson. Why in the world would the shop a top line 26 year old? Because he is overrated and highly overpaid.
I think he can be the third best, and Barzal can be the second best. Horvat is still effective as a finisher and is great on draws, just needs someone else to create space for him most of the time. Barzal needs someone to finish chances after he wears out the opposing D, and needs someone to take face-offs. They really do fit together super well, and both of their metrics are better playing together than playing apart.
Really our only shot here is to bring in someone during free agency in the next 2 seasons that can be the best. This year there's really just Marner, but next year there's Eichel, Kaprizov, Connor, Necas, Panarin and probably some more that I'm forgetting.
At least a couple of them will make it to FA, and by that point we'll also potentially have Eiserman + this year's first ready to step in, along with Ritchie who will have already played a season. My preference is still just to throw a bag at Marner, but there will potentially be even more opportunity next year.
Islanders will pick in top 10 this year - here's who will be available:
1. Matthew Schaefer, LHD - Probably goes back to junior because of injuries. ETA: 1 season of development.
NHL Comp: Cale Makar
2. Michael Misa, LW/C - Rumored to BU, although that can always change. ETA: 1 season of development.
NHL Comp: Clayton Keller
3. James Hagens, C - Seems like he could use another season at BC at least. ETA: 1.5 season of development.
NHL Comp: Jack Hughes
4. Anton Frondell, C- Already playing against men, could make the jump. ETA: Plays in NHL next season
NHL Comp: Elias Petterson
5. Porter Martone, RW - Will at least get a cup of coffee. ETA: Plays in NHL next season.
NHL Comp: Brady Tkachuk
6. Jake O'Brien, C - Back to Junior. ETA: 2 seasons of development
NHL Comp: Sebastian Aho
7. Roger McQueen, RW/C - Injured, back to junior. ETA: 2 seasons of development
NHL Comp: Tage Thompson
8. Caleb Desnoyers, C - Back to Junior. ETA: 2 seasons of development
NHL Comp: Martin Necas
9. Viktor Eklund, - Hard to tell - he's small but feisty and already playing against grown men. ETA: 1 season of development.
NHL Comp: Conor Garland
10. Radim Mrtka - Needs to develop hockey sense. ETA: 3 seasons of development.
NHL Comp: Rasmus Ristolainen
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Currently we're in line to draft 10th - so we can basically expect any player we draft this season to push for the team after a couple of seasons, and they will very likely be a forward.
Combine that with Ritchie and Eiserman, we should have at least 3 players from the system joining the main roster in the next 3 seasons. Maybe one of Nelson or Finley pushes for that as well. Having 3 impactful players on ELCs with players will make it make sense to spend big on a FA - it might even make sense to trade up this year depending on how the first few picks go.
1. Matthew Schaefer, LHD - Probably goes back to junior because of injuries. ETA: 1 season of development.
NHL Comp: Cale Makar
2. Michael Misa, LW/C - Rumored to BU, although that can always change. ETA: 1 season of development.
NHL Comp: Clayton Keller
3. James Hagens, C - Seems like he could use another season at BC at least. ETA: 1.5 season of development.
NHL Comp: Jack Hughes
4. Anton Frondell, C- Already playing against men, could make the jump. ETA: Plays in NHL next season
NHL Comp: Elias Petterson
5. Porter Martone, RW - Will at least get a cup of coffee. ETA: Plays in NHL next season.
NHL Comp: Brady Tkachuk
6. Jake O'Brien, C - Back to Junior. ETA: 2 seasons of development
NHL Comp: Sebastian Aho
7. Roger McQueen, RW/C - Injured, back to junior. ETA: 2 seasons of development
NHL Comp: Tage Thompson
8. Caleb Desnoyers, C - Back to Junior. ETA: 2 seasons of development
NHL Comp: Martin Necas
9. Viktor Eklund, - Hard to tell - he's small but feisty and already playing against grown men. ETA: 1 season of development.
NHL Comp: Conor Garland
10. Radim Mrtka - Needs to develop hockey sense. ETA: 3 seasons of development.
NHL Comp: Rasmus Ristolainen
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Currently we're in line to draft 10th - so we can basically expect any player we draft this season to push for the team after a couple of seasons, and they will very likely be a forward.
Combine that with Ritchie and Eiserman, we should have at least 3 players from the system joining the main roster in the next 3 seasons. Maybe one of Nelson or Finley pushes for that as well. Having 3 impactful players on ELCs with players will make it make sense to spend big on a FA - it might even make sense to trade up this year depending on how the first few picks go.
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im gonna be frank, I hope that the isles try to get younger with their college players pushing out the fat in this roster. they desperately need something to go. Yesterday was literally Ilya Sorokin playing out of his mind and being beaten because our team has zero iota on how to beat guys like Calvin Pickard, a literal garbage tier NPC backup
Lou Lamoriello should be embarrassed that this team is STILL in the "playoff race" btw.
Lou Lamoriello should be embarrassed that this team is STILL in the "playoff race" btw.
Went to the game last night....
I was trying to not think this, but never been more convinced this team needs a rebuild (Lou can call it whatever HE wants). I know a bunch of people just went into Anaphylactic Shock over just reading that word, but there's also another word people are going to need to digest...
Reality.
By the start of next season Lee, Horvat, Pelech, Palmieri, Pageau, Duclair, Cizikas, Reilly, Mayfield, DeAngelo, Pulock, and Sorokin will all be over 30 years old. They can't make the playoffs with these guys, and they're only going to get worse as all of these players are at their peak now, or have past it. What a terrible lineup this is and adding in Eiserman, Richie, Nelson, and any other prospect we have isn't going to move the needle past fringe playoff team.
The "juice" is out of this franchise right now and even the fans know it. Even out friends in the upper deck don't cheer that loud. The way to get it back it to inject this team with more, and better, youth than they have.
And for those out there that don't want to do a rebuild because it "guarantees nothing." That's cool. You're correct - You could rebuild for 20 years and have zero success.
But you know what is a guarantee...? Having zero success with us continuing down this path the GM has tried for literally years now.
I'd also bet that at some point in the next 2-4 years it's going to become apparent to everyone (except for the "never rebuild under any circumstances crowd" - Essentially Lou and anyone who thinks like him) that there's going to be no choice but to rebuild. The long-time core is going to age out to "Baileyville," there won't be enough (good) youth to make this team a contender (or even a playoff team), and the team will eventually suck to the point of a top 5 pick (if not several).
Look back the past 5 years and it's obvious to see where things are trending. The check is in the mail - That's for sure. People think a rebuild only wastes time, but there's no bigger waste of time than continuing to quintuple-down on a doomed path that is only going to lead to the same place we could start facing now.
Lou needs to go - That's obvious. But also fans need to face the hard truth here....No other GM could rescue this team from where he has *lead* us. \
Conversely it can be very exciting to draft top-end prospects and watch them grow in your organization. Did anyone else see the 1st game of Cale Makar in Denver? Fans we're legit psyched and you could feel it. He obviously was a key piece in what won them the Cup and makes them a contender each season right now.
We can have that too, but you have to embrace it - Not be afraid because it might not work. I want to be truly excited again watching this team, but right now they are just a drain on my wallet and soul.
For those of you that agree with this - I commend you. For those that don't - Respect. I just hope things don't have to get utterly embarrassing and terrible before ownership takes action. Because I want us all be excited - And we are on the opposite side of the earth from that right now.
I was trying to not think this, but never been more convinced this team needs a rebuild (Lou can call it whatever HE wants). I know a bunch of people just went into Anaphylactic Shock over just reading that word, but there's also another word people are going to need to digest...
Reality.
By the start of next season Lee, Horvat, Pelech, Palmieri, Pageau, Duclair, Cizikas, Reilly, Mayfield, DeAngelo, Pulock, and Sorokin will all be over 30 years old. They can't make the playoffs with these guys, and they're only going to get worse as all of these players are at their peak now, or have past it. What a terrible lineup this is and adding in Eiserman, Richie, Nelson, and any other prospect we have isn't going to move the needle past fringe playoff team.
The "juice" is out of this franchise right now and even the fans know it. Even out friends in the upper deck don't cheer that loud. The way to get it back it to inject this team with more, and better, youth than they have.
And for those out there that don't want to do a rebuild because it "guarantees nothing." That's cool. You're correct - You could rebuild for 20 years and have zero success.
But you know what is a guarantee...? Having zero success with us continuing down this path the GM has tried for literally years now.
I'd also bet that at some point in the next 2-4 years it's going to become apparent to everyone (except for the "never rebuild under any circumstances crowd" - Essentially Lou and anyone who thinks like him) that there's going to be no choice but to rebuild. The long-time core is going to age out to "Baileyville," there won't be enough (good) youth to make this team a contender (or even a playoff team), and the team will eventually suck to the point of a top 5 pick (if not several).
Look back the past 5 years and it's obvious to see where things are trending. The check is in the mail - That's for sure. People think a rebuild only wastes time, but there's no bigger waste of time than continuing to quintuple-down on a doomed path that is only going to lead to the same place we could start facing now.
Lou needs to go - That's obvious. But also fans need to face the hard truth here....No other GM could rescue this team from where he has *lead* us. \
Conversely it can be very exciting to draft top-end prospects and watch them grow in your organization. Did anyone else see the 1st game of Cale Makar in Denver? Fans we're legit psyched and you could feel it. He obviously was a key piece in what won them the Cup and makes them a contender each season right now.
We can have that too, but you have to embrace it - Not be afraid because it might not work. I want to be truly excited again watching this team, but right now they are just a drain on my wallet and soul.
For those of you that agree with this - I commend you. For those that don't - Respect. I just hope things don't have to get utterly embarrassing and terrible before ownership takes action. Because I want us all be excited - And we are on the opposite side of the earth from that right now.
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To be fair, Horvat, Sorokin, Palmieri, and Lee are mostly very productive players despite their age. 2 of the other guys are healthy scratches, and if you believe anything from the ticket reps 3 of the remaining 6 will be gone next season.
As far as the current state of the team... yeah, not a great time to go see a game right after trading Nelson and with Barzal gone. But a good infusion of youth should be here within the next couple of years with the guys that you've mentioned, and we'll have a top 10 pick this year and two more firsts the next. My guess is we keep ours the next two years and move the Colorado one in a Romanov-esque trade.
I full heartedly believe that Lou is going to do something to put some asses in some seats this summer, especially with Malkin's sudden interest and involvement. Is it Marner? I'd be surprised if Lou didn't take a big big swing at him. What about Jakob Chychrun? He's top 20 among defensemen in PP points and he doesn't even play the first unit. Ehlers? I'm less excited about, but would definitely be a different look.
Another no brainer move that will put asses in seats and get fans excited? Trading up for James Hagens. Our very own PJ boy. They would beat that storyline to hell. I'm starting to get Shane Wright vibes in that I think he may fall lower than expected, and honestly I could see any of Frondell, Martone, O'Brien and Desnoyers going in front of him at this point. If he's sitting there at 6 and we have the 9th pick, what's the cost to move up?
All is not lost because we're watching a beat down team without the 2 best players they started the year with. Imagine they somehow come out of this offseason with Marner and Hagens? Better days ahead, maybe sooner than we think.
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