Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[doublechili]

Almost every retool happens on the fly, but the big question is - Who are the "core" players on your roster? The Islanders "core" right now is Horvat, Barzal, Dobson, and Sorokin. Go compare that with teams that won the Cup the last 20 years and this Isles "Core" isn't close in terms of the talent level.

If the Islanders had a core like Barkov/Tkachuk/Ekblad/Bennett/Reinhart/Bobrovsky or from years ago...

• Kane/Teows/Hossa/Sharp, or
• Stamkos/Hedman/Kucherov/Point/Vasilevskiy, or
• Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Fluery, or
• MacKinnon/Rantonen/Makar/Landeskog, or
• Stone/Eichel/Marchessault/Pietrangelo, or...

...Well hopefully by now you get the point.

IDK. Sorokin and Horvat are really good players. Barzal and Dobson are at worst valuable assets who could bring back a lot in a trade.

I'd throw out PIT and CHI as not being relevant to the current NHL. As for the others, yes there are some great players that teams drafted top 5. There are also others that were either lower picks or obtained in trades or via signings. TBL had Stamkos and Hedman as high picks, but the other three guys were not. And all of the VGK players listed were not high picks by VGK. So yeah, I get the point, but I disagree.

And the trend is only going in the direction of needing to tinker. The days of drafting most of your players out of the CHL and letting them marinate for 3 or 4 years as your "property" is coming to an end as those guys are going to be able to go the NCAA, get NIL money while in college, and then become UFAs if they don't sign with the team that drafted them. If you're not an Original 6/Sunbelt/tax haven team, and you stink, you're going to have drafted players walking away from you.

Flexibility is the new model. And the model of stinking, amassing high picks and keeping those players for 15 years is a very "Lou" way of thinking.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Again we agree - Go get the next "Howie Roseman of of the NHL."

That said, how can you be sure that the Isles "don't need to tear it all down?" I said if before and I'll say it again...

Almost every retool happens on the fly, but the big question is - Who are the "core" players on your roster? The Islanders "core" right now is Horvat, Barzal, Dobson, and Sorokin. Go compare that with teams that won the Cup the last 20 years and this Isles "Core" isn't close in terms of the talent level.

If the Islanders had a core like Barkov/Tkachuk/Ekblad/Bennett/Reinhart/Bobrovsky or from years ago...

• Kane/Teows/Hossa/Sharp, or
• Stamkos/Hedman/Kucherov/Point/Vasilevskiy, or
• Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Fluery, or
• MacKinnon/Rantonen/Makar/Landeskog, or
• Stone/Eichel/Marchessault/Pietrangelo, or...

...Well hopefully by now you get the point.

To me this Islanders core isn't nearly good enough to compete for a Cup so the core itself needs to be rebuilt. Trotz was truly a miracle worker as coach when he was here as he was able to overcome some serious deficiencies in the Isles roster that enabled them to be more than the sum of their parts.

Well Trotz is long gone, this team needs 1-2 truly elite players, but we have a GM who cannot stop trading elite assets for average talent....And then gumming up the cap by signing that average talent to long term deals. So as long as Lou is GM the elite players aren't coming and the core is not nearly good enough.

Therefore this team is truly the Titanic. When Trotz left that was the equivalent of hitting the iceberg, and the last 3 seasons have been the next few minutes after where things seemed ok, but it was only a matter of time before we sink. We need a new GM stat, and then we need that new GM to rebuild the core and make that a Cup contender.

If you feel like the core can be rebuilt with just a retool then god bless, because short of very favorable expansion draft rules, every core from all the best teams over the past 20 years was built with (very) high draft picks (as evidenced above).

So if anything the evidence is actually suggesting that a rebuild is a lot more likely to be needed than a retool. But for the love of Pete - A new GM is needed ASAP. Because continuing on the "Lou path" is the most clearly obvious way to go nowhere.

Do you have an example of a team who successfully rebuilt with multiple high draft picks in the current lottery era? Chicago, Colorado, Tampa, Pittsburgh all got those guys when being terrible truly got you the first or second pick.

 

[IslesNorway]

I don’t think the Isles need to do everything through the draft. Trade old players for picks and prospects and use those picks to trade for young players they can develop and keep. It’s much faster that waiting for an 18 year old.

 

[Throttle]

Do you have an example of a team who successfully rebuilt with multiple high draft picks in the current lottery era? Chicago, Colorado, Tampa, Pittsburgh all got those guys when being terrible truly got you the first or second pick.

No he doesn’t bc there is none. Yet, he’ll continue with the same position…over and over and over. It makes him feel good, so there’s that.

 

[Glory Days]

I don’t think the Isles need to do everything through the draft. Trade old players for picks and prospects and use those picks to trade for young players they can develop and keep. It’s much faster that waiting for an 18 year old.

I agree. This should be how GM’s operate in the league today. I believe in constant retooling.

 

[Chockey22]

Do you have an example of a team who successfully rebuilt with multiple high draft picks in the current lottery era? Chicago, Colorado, Tampa, Pittsburgh all got those guys when being terrible truly got you the first or second pick.

Not that I necessarily agree that tanking for top picks is the only way for the Isles to go, but you could turn around this very question and ask if there is a single team in the current era that has won without a first or second pick on the rosters - and the answer is no. It may be that the current lottery era is too short a time period to truly understand the impact of the new system on rebuilding, but the reality is that all recent cup winners have had multiple first or second overall picks on their roster.

 

[Glory Days]

Not that I necessarily agree that tanking for top picks is the only way for the Isles to go, but you could turn around this very question and ask if there is a single team in the current era that has won without a first or second pick on the rosters - and the answer is no. It may be that the current lottery era is too short a time period to truly understand the impact of the new system on rebuilding, but the reality is that all recent cup winners have had multiple first or second overall picks on their roster.

I get your point but tanking no longer guarantees the top pick with the lottery.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Not that I necessarily agree that tanking for top picks is the only way for the Isles to go, but you could turn around this very question and ask if there is a single team in the current era that has won without a first or second pick on the rosters - and the answer is no. It may be that the current lottery era is too short a time period to truly understand the impact of the new system on rebuilding, but the reality is that all recent cup winners have had multiple first or second overall picks on their roster.

Probably the Blues. Pietrangelo was a stud but picked fourth overall. ROR was acquired via trade and Taresenko was a mid first round pick.

Vegas also won based on acquiring Eichel who if we wanted to go back on this board we would see some interesting posters not wanting to take the risk on Eichel.

Yes, the Panthers had Ekblad but they also got Reinhart and Tkatchuk via trade. Got Bob via free agency. Found a key performer in Verhaegue that people were not willing to take a chance on.

I believe that turning the Islanders around is going to continue to be about taking chances on high skill players and franchise altering deals rather not selling everyone and going through a 4-5 year rebuild. These posters are stuck in the past and might as well be Lou Lamoriello themselves who they despise so much.

Here is where I likely agree with them though. The Isles have to trade Brock Nelson at a minimum. I would like Palmieri dealt but I can also understand they likely get very little value out of him at this point. Nelson would give them the assets to add onto Dobson and get a true difference maker in the franchise.

 

[impaaaaaact]

So who is coming out for Dobson in 2 games? Perunovich makes the most sense but that would force someone to play the wrong side. Is it crazy to think it might be Mayfield?

 

[MJF]

I believe that turning the Islanders around is going to continue to be about taking chances on high skill players and franchise altering deals rather not selling everyone and going through a 4-5 year rebuild. These posters are stuck in the past and might as well be Lou Lamoriello themselves who they despise so much.

You’re making my argument for Barzal Elias Pettersson.
Or Tage Thompson.
Or Brady Tkachuk.

So who is coming out for Dobson in 2 games? Perunovich makes the most sense but that would force someone to play the wrong side. Is it crazy to think it might be Mayfield?

Perunovich should.

 

[duster19]

So who is coming out for Dobson in 2 games? Perunovich makes the most sense but that would force someone to play the wrong side. Is it crazy to think it might be Mayfield?

Million dollar question right now. Lou’s trying to figure it out. For me I really don’t like the thought of Pelech Pulock Mayfield Dobson all playing anymore. I want one of them gone. We just seemed to make strides with the new guys be a shame to just go back to what we were before.

 

[Glory Days]

Million dollar question right now. Lou’s trying to figure it out. For me I really don’t like the thought of Pelech Pulock Mayfield Dobson all playing anymore. I want one of them gone. We just seemed to make strides with the new guys be a shame to just go back to what we were before.

I think 2 should go. The NHL is all about a having a mobile defense.

 

[YearlyLottery]

You’re making my argument for Barzal Elias Pettersson.
Or Tage Thompson.
Or Brady Tkachuk.

Perunovich should.

Yes sir. The Islanders should do everything in their power to trade Barzal for one of those guys. Not sure about Pettersson have not seen him play enough.

Dobson is my first hope to be dealt though.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Pettersson didn’t acquit himself very well at the 4Nations, nor has he for the season.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Million dollar question right now. Lou’s trying to figure it out. For me I really don’t like the thought of Pelech Pulock Mayfield Dobson all playing anymore. I want one of them gone. We just seemed to make strides with the new guys be a shame to just go back to what we were before.

Probably will be Perunovich, and I have a feeling they move Pulock to the left to play with Dobson. IMO Perunovich has been better than Pulock or Mayfield so far, but contracts are contracts I guess

 

[LeapOnOver]

It was only 4 games so yeah it’s not that big of a deal but I still disagree with your take.

Brock was only one of 4 forwards on the team with 0 points and he was a team worst -3. As much as I like him on the Isles I have to be honest. He looked old, slow and a little overmatched.

4 forwards is a third of the team. I watched two of the games and just saw a 2nd line center playing against the top talent of the world and not looking good or bad.... just average. Even if you think he looked slow.... it's the top talent in the world. Hughes was fast and agile but still didn't get much done either.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Probably will be Perunovich, and I have a feeling they move Pulock to the left to play with Dobson. IMO Perunovich has been better than Pulock or Mayfield so far, but contracts are contracts I guess

Not sure why people like Perunovich. He's out of position a lot. He's just Sebastian Aho 2.0 imo.

 

[MJF]

Pettersson didn’t acquit himself very well at the 4Nations, nor has he for the season.

That's why a team like the Islanders has to take a gamble on trading for players like Pettersson. At his best he's a high-end goal scorer, the type who never signs here as a UFA. I would take that risk in an even-up trade.

 

[duster19]

Not sure why people like Perunovich. He's out of position a lot. He's just Sebastian Aho 2.0 imo.

Not sure it is the player people like or that we’ve watched these other guys for years and it isn’t working. He can at least move the puck up the ice and give us a chance at some offense.

Two years in a row these guys have gone down and replacements from the garbage heap have been better. Last thing I want to watch is Pulock and his cement skates..

 

[EXTRAS]

Any update on Hogberg injury?

 

[periferal]

Do you have an example of a team who successfully rebuilt with multiple high draft picks in the current lottery era? Chicago, Colorado, Tampa, Pittsburgh all got those guys when being terrible truly got you the first or second pick.

What a joke. You're moving the goal posts and you know it. Whether or not you just want to argue just to argue or are totally in denial, here are the facts:

1. Going from total rebuild to Cup contender usually takes at least 4-5 years and 2-4 drafts (if all goes well). So since the "current lottery era" was changed for the 2021 draft we would still need to wait a few years to have this data.
2. The most recent changes are minor at best and if anything protect those teams at the top.
3. So nothing is dramatically new overall since the NHL implemented the lottery system in 1995...And we still have tons of data that almost every team that's won a cup since then had (multiple) high 1st round picks...As a result of being terrible the year before.

Some People are seriously triggered when they hear the word "rebuild." Let's just stop calling it that. Let's just say that the most proven way to increase your odds at becoming a Cup contender is to have multiple high draft picks (and not haae a GM/scouting department F those picks up).

If you don't want the Isles to go down this route - Totally cool. I respect your opinion. But just stop playing games like getting higher draft picks isn't a proven way to increase your odds of winning in the NHL (or most any sport).

 

[seafoam]

That canvas was blank back in September.

He's started painting on it already.

Whatever an upcoming deal may look like, it'll be a projection based on intial returns and the level of belief in what comes next from him based thereupon.

We fans may end up thinking he's getting overpaid.

It sure as heck wouldn't be the first time we'd get that feeling from a contract dished out by this management.



If Lou were to see this, he'd likely respond, "Says who?"

It's a very possibility with current management.

Goals For says who.

Last in the Eastern Conference…

 

[periferal]

I get your point but tanking no longer guarantees the top pick with the lottery.

It never did. The draft lottery started in 1995 and from day one you could lose the #1 overall pick to a team a few picks behind you.

And for those out there that seem to think if you try to tank and don't get the #1 overall pick, here's a list of players draft in the #2-5 range in roughly the last 15-20 years:

• Eric Staal
• Bobby Ryan
• Carey Price
• Evgeni Malkin
• Blake Wheeler
• Jordan Staal
• Jonathan Toews
• Nicklas Backstrom
• Viktor Hedman
• Matt Duchene
• Gabriel Landeskog
• Jonathan Huberdeau
• Adam Larsson
• Aleksander Barkov
• Seth Jones
• Elias Lindholm
• Sam Reinhart
• Leon Draisaitl
• Sam Bennett
• Jack Eichel
• Dylan Strome
• Mitch Marner
• Noah Hanafin
• Pierre Luc-Dubois
• Miro Heiskinen
• Cale Makar
• Elias Petterson
• Andrei Svechnikov
• Brady Tkachuk

Guess if you decide to tank and don't get the #1 overall pick you're screwed.

 

[JRD76]

It never did. The draft lottery started in 1995 and from day one you could lose the #1 overall pick to a team a few picks behind you.

And for those out there that seem to think if you try to tank and don't get the #1 overall pick, here's a list of players draft in the #2-5 range in roughly the last 15-20 years:

• Eric Staal
• Bobby Ryan
• Carey Price
• Evgeni Malkin
• Blake Wheeler
• Jordan Staal
• Jonathan Toews
• Nicklas Backstrom
• Viktor Hedman
• Matt Duchene
• Gabriel Landeskog
• Jonathan Huberdeau
• Adam Larsson
• Aleksander Barkov
• Seth Jones
• Elias Lindholm
• Sam Reinhart
• Leon Draisaitl
• Sam Bennett
• Jack Eichel
• Dylan Strome
• Mitch Marner
• Noah Hanafin
• Pierre Luc-Dubois
• Miro Heiskinen
• Cale Makar
• Elias Petterson
• Andrei Svechnikov
• Brady Tkachuk

Guess if you decide to tank and don't get the #1 overall pick you're screwed.

Now lets look at the islanders picks in the 2-5 range. Griffin Reinhart, Dal Colle, Ryan Strome, Nino. The last 2 carved themselves a decent nhl career but not game changers. Are we confident the Islanders will pick the right players if they tank and pick in that range for the next few years?

 

[periferal]

Now lets look at the islanders picks in the 2-5 range. Griffin Reinhart, Dal Colle, Ryan Strome, Nino. The last 2 carved themselves a decent nhl career but not game changers. Are we confident the Islanders will pick the right players if they tank and pick in that range for the next few years?

Who the Islanders draft is an entirely different argument than if high draft picks are valuable. Did you go and review those 4 top 5 picks you mentioned and see who the Isles could've drafted instead? If you've eaten today already I wouldn't.

Again the steps are...

1. Get the high draft picks.
2. Have a stellar scouting department assembled to maximize those picks (and you really should have one regardless of where you pick)

I have no idea if the current Isles scouting department is good enough, but I know I don't trust Lou to make those picks - The same way I didn't trust garth snow.