Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[Zeeker]

Actually I think what's happened with the Capitals over the past year is literally perfect evidence that Lou needs to be fired ASAP.

Since they won the Cup in 2018 the Caps haven't won a playoff series, nor gone above 104 points. Now they're a president's trophy candidate, on pace for around 120, and went from 66-1 odds for a Cup before the season to now 12-1.

And why? Well look what they changed last offseason...

Their GM.

Then once they had a new person in charge of shaping the roster that GM made all sort of intelligent moves to improve the overall talent level starting with solidifying their goalie situation by trading for Logan Thompson. Then they also added guys with very good talent in Dubois and Chychrun and good depth pieces in Roy and Mangiapne. All of this took pressure off young star Aliaksei Protas allowing him to develop and you see the results.

If Lou would change his ways and stop overpaying for average talent, gumming up the cap with long-term deals leaving zero flexibility, and never having any impactful young talent in the system to improve the roster, I could get behind the idea that we could retool and maybe have success. But after 40+ years of GMing exactly the same way, he has already proven he not accomplish what Chris Patrick (Capitals GM for those who aren't aware) did in just ONE offseason (and his 1st season ever as an NHL GM).

Think about that.

So fire Lou first and then when we see who his replacement is we can have a conversation on the best course forward.

At this point, Lou is trying to disprove the definition of insanity.

 

[Throttle]

Actually I think what's happened with the Capitals over the past year is literally perfect evidence that Lou needs to be fired ASAP.

Since they won the Cup in 2018 the Caps haven't won a playoff series, nor gone above 104 points. Now they're a president's trophy candidate, on pace for around 120, and went from 66-1 odds for a Cup before the season to now 12-1.

And why? Well look what they changed last offseason...

Their GM.

Then once they had a new person in charge of shaping the roster that GM made all sort of intelligent moves to improve the overall talent level starting with solidifying their goalie situation by trading for Logan Thompson. Then they also added guys with very good talent in Dubois and Chychrun and good depth pieces in Roy and Mangiapne. All of this took pressure off young star Aliaksei Protas allowing him to develop and you see the results.

If Lou would change his ways and stop overpaying for average talent, gumming up the cap with long-term deals leaving zero flexibility, and never having any impactful young talent in the system to improve the roster, I could get behind the idea that we could retool and maybe have success. But after 40+ years of GMing exactly the same way, he has already proven he could not accomplish what Chris Patrick (Capitals GM for those who aren't aware) did in just ONE offseason (and his 1st season ever as an NHL GM).

Think about that.

So fire Lou first and then when we see who his replacement is we can have a conversation on the best course forward.

Except… your timeline doesn’t work. All the moves made to reshape Washington were done before Patrick was promoted to GM and he still reports to the former GM.

 

[The Real JT]

At this point, Lou is trying to disprove the definition of insanity.

He’s no Einstein that’s for sure.

Lou’s stewardship of the Isles has more of a movie vibe to me. He’s gone through the latter part of his career as Chauncey Gardiner but lately I fear he’s turning into Michael Caine’s screen partner Ruprecht.

 

[Chockey22]

And…does it highlight the skill gap between a loaded team and Nelson and lower the price teams are willing to pay for him?

no team in the NHL comes close to the talent level on the Canada-US teams, and I am not sure even playoff games reach that level of intensity of that game last night. That was a tight game, and Brock does not look out of place at all - he’s playing well. I am just hoping that Barzal and Dobson are watching this and using it as motivation to improve their play so he’s on the next Olympic team.

 

[MJF]

no team in the NHL comes close to the talent level on the Canada-US teams, and I am not sure even playoff games reach that level of intensity of that game last night. That was a tight game, and Brock does not look out of place at all - he’s playing well. I am just hoping that Barzal and Dobson are watching this and using it as motivation to improve their play so he’s on the next Olympic team.

Nelson looks out of place to me. A bit slower and less sure handed than his Team USA teammates. He also doesn’t play the heavy game USA is winning with. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong on Monday against Sweden.

 

[Arsenalogist24]

Brock almost got put through the end boards by Bennett, that was when you noticed him

I’d like him to get some more ice time as I believe his shot and deflections are his best attributes. But no way can he climb up the lineup in this stacked USA roster.

It sounds like Matt Tkachuk is gonna get held out of the Sweden game. So some ice time will open up, or they just simply slide Kreider on to that line

 

[doublechili]

Actually I think what's happened with the Capitals over the past year is literally perfect evidence that Lou needs to be fired ASAP.

Since they won the Cup in 2018 the Caps haven't won a playoff series, nor gone above 104 points. Now they're a president's trophy candidate, on pace for around 120, and went from 66-1 odds for a Cup before the season to now 12-1.

And why? Well look what they changed last offseason...

Their GM.

Then once they had a new person in charge of shaping the roster that GM made all sort of intelligent moves to improve the overall talent level starting with solidifying their goalie situation by trading for Logan Thompson. Then they also added guys with very good talent in Dubois and Chychrun and good depth pieces in Roy and Mangiapne. All of this took pressure off young star Aliaksei Protas allowing him to develop and you see the results.

If Lou would change his ways and stop overpaying for average talent, gumming up the cap with long-term deals leaving zero flexibility, and never having any impactful young talent in the system to improve the roster, I could get behind the idea that we could retool and maybe have success. But after 40+ years of GMing exactly the same way, he has already proven he could not accomplish what Chris Patrick (Capitals GM for those who aren't aware) did in just ONE offseason (and his 1st season ever as an NHL GM).

Think about that.

So fire Lou first and then when we see who his replacement is we can have a conversation on the best course forward.

I don't disagree. My position for the past few years has been that Lou doesn't seem to have the flexibility/vision/etc. to have ultimate success as a GM in the modern NHL.

Where we disagree is that IMO every team has to constantly retool with a salary cap, free agency, etc., and the old-style tear down rebuild that you and others advocate isn't the way to go anymore. If it was a tear-down rebuild, Lou might actually be okay - his glacial pace and desire to build an "orchestra" is fine if you gather pieces and keep them in perpetuity. Constantly shuffling to maximize asset values, not so much his thing.

I do think it's time to hire a new GM, and my preference (and my guess for what the owners will do) is that they hire a young, educated guy - not some ex-player, old-boys network hiring. Try to find a Howie Roseman of the NHL (Eagles GM who graduated from law school and started as an analytics intern with the Eagles). Chris Patrick is a kind of similar guy. He played hockey (8th round pick) but went to Princeton undergrad and then got an MBA at UVA, then worked in investment banking for awhile before taking a lower level job in the Capitals organization under George McPhee. BTW, he's part of the Patrick family (Lester Patrick was his great grandfather), so he's no totally out of the blue.

 

[Chockey22]

Nelson looks out of place to me. A bit slower and less sure handed than his Team USA teammates. He also doesn’t play the heavy game USA is winning with. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong on Monday against Sweden.

There’s only a few guys playing the heavy game up front - there’s a lot of skill in the US lineup that is not overly physical: Guentzel, Hughes, Connor, Eichel, Matthews, etc - but all are devoted to playing a very strong defensive game, and I think Nelson fits that just fine. Other than Guentzel, I don’t think any of those other guys did much more than Nelson last night. He’s not as quick as some of the others, but is not slow and is defensively reliable, which playoff teams will value.
From the Isles perspective, they just need Nelson to not get injured, to show he can play with talented linemates, and to show he can play an 200 foot game, and I think he’s done that.

 

[SI]

The Islanders could never do what a team like WSH has done, simply due to contracts they have handed out since Lou took charge. They were handcuffed from before only to give Engvall and Mayfield seven year deals. It’s how you don’t run a franchise really.

The CAPs were able to do many of those things because they had big contracts go on LTIR. Big contracts also handcuffed them.
LTIR - Backstrom 9.5m + Oshie 5.75m and then retaining 50% on Kuznetsov - 4m.

 

[periferal]

I don't disagree. My position for the past few years has been that Lou doesn't seem to have the flexibility/vision/etc. to have ultimate success as a GM in the modern NHL.

Great reply. Appreciate it all. We do agree on some things and not on others, but I respect the nice dialogue back and forth.

Where we disagree is that IMO every team has to constantly retool with a salary cap, free agency, etc., and the old-style tear down rebuild that you and others advocate isn't the way to go anymore. If it was a tear-down rebuild, Lou might actually be okay - his glacial pace and desire to build an "orchestra" is fine if you gather pieces and keep them in perpetuity. Constantly shuffling to maximize asset values, not so much his thing.

See this is where we see things differently, and I think we have to be very specific towards this 2025 Islanders roster.

So yes - Almost every retool happens on the fly, but the big question is - Who are the "core" players on your roster? The Islanders "core" right now is Horvat, Barzal, Dobson, and Sorokin. Go compare that with teams that won the Cup the last 20 years and this Isles "Core" isn't close in terms of the talent level.

If the Islanders had a core like Barkov/Tkachuk/Ekblad/Bennett/Reinhart/Bobrovsky or from years ago Kane/Teows/Hossa/Sharp, or Stamkos/Hedman/Kucherov/Point/Vasilevskiy, or Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Fluery, or MacKinnon/Rantonen/Makar/Landeskog, or Stone/Eichel/Marchessault/Pietrangelo, or...Well hopefully by now you get the point.

To me this Islanders core isn't nearly good enough to compete for a Cup so the core itself needs to be rebuilt. Trotz was truly a miracle worker as coach when he was here as he was able to overcome some serious deficiencies in the Isles roster that enabled them to be more than the sum of their parts.

Well Trotz is long gone, this team needs 1-2 truly elite players, but we have a GM who cannot stop trading elite assets for average talent....And then gumming up the cap by signing that average talent to long term deals. So as long as Lou is GM the elite players aren't coming and the core is not nearly good enough.

Therefore this team is truly the Titanic. When Trotz left that was the equivalent of hitting the iceberg (funny you mentioend "glacial pace" above), and the last 3 seasons have been the next few minutes after where things seemed ok, but it was only a matter of time before we sink. We need a new GM stat, and then we need that new GM to rebuild the core and make that a Cup contender.

Then from there you can retool around that Core, and that I totally agree with.

I do think it's time to hire a new GM, and my preference (and my guess for what the owners will do) is that they hire a young, educated guy - not some ex-player, old-boys network hiring. Try to find a Howie Roseman of the NHL (Eagles GM who graduated from law school and started as an analytics intern with the Eagles). Chris Patrick is a kind of similar guy. He played hockey (8th round pick) but went to Princeton undergrad and then got an MBA at UVA, then worked in investment banking for awhile before taking a lower level job in the Capitals organization under George McPhee. BTW, he's part of the Patrick family (Lester Patrick was his great grandfather), so he's no totally out of the blue.

Yes- Totally down with the "Howie Roseman of the NHL." No idea who that is, but that kind of GMing where you're very aggressive about adding top talent (like the Knights) totally is what we should be doing.

As for Chris Patrcik - He's not totally out of the blue, but in literally one offseason he took and average Capitals team and made them a contender. In 6 offseasons with Lou this is now the worst we've been. Let's wrap up this failed tenure already as it's not going to get any better.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Nelson looks out of place to me. A bit slower and less sure handed than his Team USA teammates. He also doesn’t play the heavy game USA is winning with. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong on Monday against Sweden.

I agree with Chockey. It was a tight defensive game, and there were several shifts where USA got chances, in a game where there weren't many, due to his line and his work. I don't think anybody expects Nelson to be the best player on the ice, and he performed just about what I expected of him.

 

[Tahoeblue]

My short rant about Lou. I normally stay away from these spirited discussions on these boards.

Many have stated and I would agree that there is a flaw in his thinking of keeping the older core together. This team is not winning the cup and/or making a run in the playoffs with the present lineup. There are some solid pieces such as an incredible goalie to reload again.

The other is the lack of awareness of the landscape in the eastern conference. The Isles I believe benefitted from numerous teams who were stuck in a rebuild mode which in turn created an opportunity for a team like the Isles. Those playoff runs were years ago and Lou has been slow to act. Yes, teams like Montreal and Buffalo are still in neutral, but we are seeing teams like Detroit, Ottawa, and even Columbus start to gain some traction. The math just doesn't add up and it seems like there may not be a seat at the 8 team dinner party for sometime to come with this present roster.

There are new teams ready to sub out teams like the Isles, Pens, and Bruins who have younger, cheaper, and more talented players. There are also veteran, well coached, and managed teams who have cap flexibility to reload at the TDL or on July 1 to keep there windows open(Fla, Tbl, Tor, Nyr, Njd).

Teams acquire top end talent either by drafting them or through UFA signings. This team really can't do either at the moment. I would even be a favor of some short term pain for some long term gain. I know it is not easy to replicate what the Caps have done, but I would at least like to try. A full rebuild has a risk of being the Sabres or the early 2000 Isles.

I will save judgement for March 7 for now.

 

[Throttle]

My short rant about Lou. I normally stay away from these spirited discussions on these boards.

Many have stated and I would agree that there is a flaw in his thinking of keeping the older core together. This team is not winning the cup and/or making a run in the playoffs with the present lineup. There are some solid pieces such as an incredible goalie to reload again.

The other is the lack of awareness of the landscape in the eastern conference. The Isles I believe benefitted from numerous teams who were stuck in a rebuild mode which in turn created an opportunity for a team like the Isles. Those playoff runs were years ago and Lou has been slow to act. Yes, teams like Montreal and Buffalo are still in neutral, but we are seeing teams like Detroit, Ottawa, and even Columbus start to gain some traction. The math just doesn't add up and it seems like there may not be a seat at the 8 team dinner party for sometime to come with this present roster.

There are new teams ready to sub out teams like the Isles, Pens, and Bruins who have younger, cheaper, and more talented players. There are also veteran, well coached, and managed teams who have cap flexibility to reload at the TDL or on July 1 to keep there windows open(Fla, Tbl, Tor, Nyr, Njd).

Teams acquire top end talent either by drafting them or through UFA signings. This team really can't do either at the moment. I would even be a favor of some short term pain for some long term gain. I know it is not easy to replicate what the Caps have done, but I would at least like to try. A full rebuild has a risk of being the Sabres or the early 2000 Isles.

I will save judgement for March 7 for now.

Teams also acquire top talent by trading away the ‘not gonna win with this player’ for a better player. See FL, WPG, etc.

 

[The Real JT]

Teams also acquire top talent by trading away the ‘not gonna win with this player’ for a better player. See FL, WPG, etc.

The next few years of Nelson and Palmieri will be worse than what we’ve seen over the last 2 seasons. Whether that’s a slow slide or something more abrupt who knows? I just don’t want the Isles to be part of it.

As for the trading away the “not gonna win with this player” scenario, count me in. Hopefully we’re on the right side of that kind of deal and get a younger player in return.

 

[LeapOnOver]

The next few years of Nelson and Palmieri will be worse than what we’ve seen over the last 2 seasons. Whether that’s a slow slide or something more abrupt who knows? I just don’t want the Isles to be part of it.

As for the trading away the “not gonna win with this player” scenario, count me in. Hopefully we’re on the right side of that kind of deal and get a younger player in return.

I'd settle for a better player in return.

 

[12Dog]

I don’t know
If I’m trading Dobson? Maybe it’s user bias but I’m looking for a Tkachuk back

 

[Chockey22]

For those watching the 4 Nations tourney, you’ll have noticed how cooked Elias Peterson looks - it would be an huge mistake for Lou to trade anything of value for EP40.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I don’t know
If I’m trading Dobson? Maybe it’s user bias but I’m looking for a Tkachuk back

If management comes to the conclusion that DeAngelo and Boqvist can successfully assume the offensive duties Dobson has held for 3+ years while saving the team 3-5 MM in cap space in the process, then moving Dobson for an equal piece up front would obviously seem logical.

It will likely be difficult, despite Dobson's righty shot and young age.

I'm gonna say that if Dobson is moved, it'll be to a partner we're not necessarily expecting and the Isles would get a usable NHL forward for now (of lesser comparitive value) along with a forward and defensive prospect that would fir the team build considerably moving forward.

I'm still thinking of a Detroit or perhaps Vegas or San Jose as such partners.

***
Montreal feels like a team Lou can do good business with. Mailloux could be part of such a move. I imagine that Lou could see Evans as a Pageau replacement moving forward.

I know many fans would say you've gotta get a Caufield or Slafkovsky in such a deal.

I'd throw prospect names like Hage and Kapanen out there as parts of a package with the above pieces.

Still, all feels like it's just chatter. Haven't seen Lou make a move like this in his time here.

 

[MarsTBOW]

I don’t know
If I’m trading Dobson? Maybe it’s user bias but I’m looking for a Tkachuk back

That would cost Dobson Plus something else from us for Brady I think right now...
I do not think Matty is any where's near the open market

 

[SRBisles]

 

[Throttle]

Great find, solid player. Overall, made the transition to the NA game pretty well.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Something like 2 x2.5 I bet. I would rather lock him up for longer but I bet his agent will want the contract to end with the cap up, and it probably doesn’t make sense for us to give him an elevated rate yet

 

[doublechili]

Montreal feels like a team Lou can do good business with. Mailloux could be part of such a move. I imagine that Lou could see Evans as a Pageau replacement moving forward.

I know many fans would say you've gotta get a Caufield or Slafkovsky in such a deal.

I'd throw prospect names like Hage and Kapanen out there as parts of a package with the above pieces.

FWIW, I checked the Slafkovsky thread recently on the MTL board, and a lot of their fans are not exactly doing cartwheels over him. To the contrary, a lot of them seem to be questioning his motor, toughness, etc..

 

[doublechili]

Tsyplakov's agent is also Barzal, Holmstrom and George's agent. Is he really out there saying he's negotiating an extension with Lou? What's going on - no more cone of silence? Lou seriously might be tied up in a closet somewhere....

 

[seafoam]

If management comes to the conclusion that DeAngelo and Boqvist can successfully assume the offensive duties Dobson has held for 3+ years while saving the team 3-5 MM in cap space in the process, then moving Dobson for an equal piece up front would obviously seem logical.

It will likely be difficult, despite Dobson's righty shot and young age.

I'm gonna say that if Dobson is moved, it'll be to a partner we're not necessarily expecting and the Isles would get a usable NHL forward for now (of lesser comparitive value) along with a forward and defensive prospect that would fir the team build considerably moving forward.

I'm still thinking of a Detroit or perhaps Vegas or San Jose as such partners.

***
Montreal feels like a team Lou can do good business with. Mailloux could be part of such a move. I imagine that Lou could see Evans as a Pageau replacement moving forward.

I know many fans would say you've gotta get a Caufield or Slafkovsky in such a deal.

I'd throw prospect names like Hage and Kapanen out there as parts of a package with the above pieces.

Still, all feels like it's just chatter. Haven't seen Lou make a move like this in his time here.

They are definitely one of the only teams that could hypothetically offer quantity over quality, but isn’t Evans an impending UFA? I like him too, but why trade for him when you can sign him on July 1st?