Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[Throttle]

If Nelson goes, I can see LAK making a move. They are most likely going to play Vegas or EDM in the first round and need PP help.

They have a 1st, they could also flip back Turcotte, who’s been a bit of disappointment for them, but still 23 RFA status.

A bigger deal could be Nelson/Dobson with Byfield plus coming back.

 

[SCMURRAY]

A MTL poster offered this trade on the main board for Dobson: Laine, Dach, 1st, 2nd, and Mailloux. While at first it kind of looks like a "thanks but no thanks", I think this is kind of the ultimate retool trade.

- It allows you to trade Nelson and Palmieri and have players ready to slot into the top 6 next season without needing to rely on FA.
- Trading them would hopefully net another 1st, 2nd and prospect. All of a sudden you're looking at 6 picks in the first two rounds, plus two solid prospects in Mailloux and whoever you get for Nelson. Two picks the top 15, another 3 from 25-45, and one towards the end of the draft - not too shabby.
- Mailloux could potentially push for an NHL job next season, and gives them options away from Tony D which seems like a wise move given his past volatility.
- Laine comes in and even if he sucks 5v5, he can hopefully add another dimension to the PP and get it out of the gutter. If it doesn't work out and we're not a playoff team next year, we deal him for an additional asset at next year's deadline along with Lee and Pageau.

This is exactly the type of thing I'd love to see from Lou - we could essentially replenish our entire prospect pool this offseason. With that many picks in the top two rounds maybe you even see a trade up for Hagens.

Dobson for Caufield straight up

 

[doublechili]

Dobson for Caufield straight up

Positionally Dobson should have more value, no? A big RHD vs a smaller winger?

 

[impaaaaaact]

Positionally Dobson should have more value, no? A big RHD vs a smaller winger?

definitely. Friedman doesn't think Dobson is going to be dealt though, says the agent change was to try and get a deal done

 

[LeapOnOver]

Nelson is on the decline with the Isles. He might not be washed up yet, but the way the Isles roster is shaping up there is little for him to help improve and get back to 30+ goal seasons for years to come. Does he want to stick around and be part of rather quick decline as our players age or does he look for chance to win? I'm sure some players would rather just decline and stay put, whereas others won't. The last thing the Isles should be doing is sticking to Nelson just because.

We said the same thing about Lee, didn't we? And you think his game would fall off a cliff before Nelson's based on their different styles of play. Listen, I'm not against trading Nelson, but also not buying the decline narrative. He's still highly effective and is poised to be one of the Pavleski/Benn type of freaks that are productive on a roster into their late 30s. Trade him because you think he's going to walk, or want more money than he's worth, but not because you think he'll decline.... cause he's proved that not to be the case.

Nelson at 5-6 million for 3 years with a rising cap and him going from a capable 2c to a great 3c as he ages won't rub me the wrong way. How the cap is going up for this clown show league is beyond me. I never watch all-star activities, but would watch this tournament if they actually had a way to watch it in Korea. Best sport, worst f***ing league.

 

[periferal]

And if we don’t trade Nelson, we can change the caption to “Lou digging his own grave”

Lou's been digging his own grave professionally for years now. Unfortunately when your owners are afraid of you, you can have the entire organization help you dig the biggest hole as a threat...





@leeroggy

 

[leeroggy]

Lou's been digging his own grave professionally for years now. Unfortunately when your owners are afraid of you, you can have the entire organization help you dig the biggest hole as a threat...





@leeroggy

Profiling!
Use my proper pronouns!
Stud/Genius

Anyhow, all of you bundle up! Having a big lacrosse day down here in 70+ degrees and Just Baked's West Palm location opened officially last night!

 

[impaaaaaact]

We said the same thing about Lee, didn't we? And you think his game would fall off a cliff before Nelson's based on their different styles of play. Listen, I'm not against trading Nelson, but also not buying the decline narrative. He's still highly effective and is poised to be one of the Pavleski/Benn type of freaks that are productive on a roster into their late 30s. Trade him because you think he's going to walk, or want more money than he's worth, but not because you think he'll decline.... cause he's proved that not to be the case.

Nelson at 5-6 million for 3 years with a rising cap and him going from a capable 2c to a great 3c as he ages won't rub me the wrong way. How the cap is going up for this clown show league is beyond me. I never watch all-star activities, but would watch this tournament if they actually had a way to watch it in Korea. Best sport, worst f***ing league.

Nelson at 5v5 last season: 22G, 22A, 44 points
Nelson at 5v5 this season (per 82): 19G, 24A, 43 points

And that's with the 17 game goalless drought, so it stands to reason he may even end up scoring more at 5v5 than he did last year. His overall scoring is down because he has 2 points on the power play this year as opposed to 19 last year... that feels more like a function of the team than specifically his decline.

So yeah I mean definitely deal the dude if he's unwilling to sign, but as long as we aren't signing up for like 8Mx4 there's an argument to be made that he'll age well into the rising cap, especially as he can slide over to a top 6 LW role if/when he becomes ineffective at center.

 

[doublechili]

Question for the group. WAS is basically #1 in the NHL at the 2/3 of the season mark. Are they legit Cup contenders, and accordingly should they be buyers at the TDL?

And then the important follow up question: did anyone see that coming? Would you have had WAS pegged as a top contender last summer and would not therefore be surprised right now, or if you were one of their fans would you have been advocating for a rebuild?

I did not see that coming. If I were a WAS fan I'd have advocated for a retool (since IMO retool is what every team needs to do all the time in the NHL now, with a cap, free agency, etc.).

 

[periferal]

Question for the group. WAS is basically #1 in the NHL at the 2/3 of the season mark. Are they legit Cup contenders, and accordingly should they be buyers at the TDL?

And then the important follow up question: did anyone see that coming? Would you have had WAS pegged as a top contender last summer and would not therefore be surprised right now, or if you were one of their fans would you have been advocating for a rebuild?

I did not see that coming. If I were a WAS fan I'd have advocated for a retool (since IMO retool is what every team needs to do all the time in the NHL now, with a cap, free agency, etc.).

Do I think the Capitals will win the Cup - Probably not.

Do I think they should go for it regardless - I do.

The reason - Ovechkin.

When you have true generation/hall of fame talent you owe it to them to either go for it...Or trade them to another team to let them get another Cup (like Boston did with Bourque).

The Penguins botched it with Crosby and Malkin, but they were right to go all in. They failed so now if either player wants to be traded to a contender they should honor that (and it would help them rebuild).

 

[mm11]

Question for the group. WAS is basically #1 in the NHL at the 2/3 of the season mark. Are they legit Cup contenders, and accordingly should they be buyers at the TDL?

And then the important follow up question: did anyone see that coming? Would you have had WAS pegged as a top contender last summer and would not therefore be surprised right now, or if you were one of their fans would you have been advocating for a rebuild?

I did not see that coming. If I were a WAS fan I'd have advocated for a retool (since IMO retool is what every team needs to do all the time in the NHL now, with a cap, free agency, etc.).

Take it further, a first round series against the caps would not surely be a 5 and out for us Maybe I'm wrong. Lgi.

 

[IslandersGER]

Nelson at 5-6 million for 3 years with a rising cap and him going from a capable 2c to a great 3c as he ages won't rub me the wrong way

 

[doublechili]

Do I think the Capitals will win the Cup - Probably not.

Do I think they should go for it regardless - I do.

The reason - Ovechkin.

When you have true generation/hall of fame talent you owe it to them to either go for it...Or trade them to another team to let them get another Cup (like Boston did with Bourque).

The Penguins botched it with Crosby and Malkin, but they were right to go all in. They failed so now if either player wants to be traded to a contender they should honor that (and it would help them rebuild).

Yeah, but is Ovechkin a guy who's going to carry them to a Cup at this point in his career? I know the "high draft pick generational player" fits in with your tear-down-rebuild-necessity narrative, but does that really still apply at this point in his career where he's good but half the player he was in his prime?

Anyway, the really important question is, did you see WAS as being a Cup contender last summer? If I'm honest, I'd have pegged them for missing the playoffs. You?

 

[periferal]

Yeah, but is Ovechkin a guy who's going to carry them to a Cup at this point in his career? I know the "high draft pick generational player" fits in with your tear-down-rebuild-necessity narrative, but does that really still apply at this point in his career where he's good but half the player he was in his prime?

Anyway, the really important question is, did you see WAS as being a Cup contender last summer? If I'm honest, I'd have pegged them for missing the playoffs. You?

They'd never admit it, but I'm not sure the Capitals thought they'd be where they are. That said I think sports, and especially hockey, are pretty simple:

The amount of success you have is almost directly correlated to the amount of talent you have.

Anyone remember the Isles 2014 offseason? That was the offseason where Garth Snow was his most aggressive signing Kulemin and Graboski and also trading for Boychuk and Leddy (because that was the year he gave up the 1st that could've become McDavid in the Vanek trade). As a result of those additions, the Isles jumped from 79 points in 13-14 to 101 points in 14-15.

Well the Capitals had an amazing offseason last summer and that's a big reason why they are where they are. Also Spencer Carbery looks like he can really coach. I assume most fans out there had no idea about him.

 

[doublechili]

They'd never admit it, but I'm not sure the Capitals thought they'd be where they are. That said I think sports, and especially hockey, are pretty simple:

The amount of success you have is almost directly correlated to the amount of talent you have.

Anyone remember the Isles 2014 offseason? That was the offseason where Garth Snow was his most aggressive signing Kulemin and Graboski and also trading for Boychuk and Leddy (because that was the year he gave up the 1st that could've become McDavid in the Vanek trade). As a result of those additions, the Isles jumped from 79 points in 13-14 to 101 points in 14-15.

Well the Capitals had an amazing offseason last summer and that's a big reason why they are where they are. Also Spencer Carbery looks like he can really coach. I assume most fans out there had no idea about him.

Right, but last year they had 91 points, 3 less than the Isles, and missed the playoffs. Now they're basically the #1 team in the league. Did they rebuild over the summer and get a few top 5 picks?

Nope, as you said they had a good summer. And some prior moves (like Strome) really worked out. They retooled on the fly, tweaked the roster, and in the sea of mediocrity that is the modern NHL, they're suddenly a contender.

Doesn't that shoot some holes in the "we need to stink, hit bottom and draft top 5 for a few years in order to contend" line of thought?

 

[SI]

Question for the group. WAS is basically #1 in the NHL at the 2/3 of the season mark. Are they legit Cup contenders, and accordingly should they be buyers at the TDL?

And then the important follow up question: did anyone see that coming? Would you have had WAS pegged as a top contender last summer and would not therefore be surprised right now, or if you were one of their fans would you have been advocating for a rebuild?

I did not see that coming. If I were a WAS fan I'd have advocated for a retool (since IMO retool is what every team needs to do all the time in the NHL now, with a cap, free agency, etc.).

Washington is a fascinating case study. What separates them from a team in a similar position, like the Penguins, comes down to several key moves:

After Tom Wilson and Alex Ovechkin signed extensions, it was clear there would be no rebuild.

They took calculated gambles on former top prospects—Pierre-Luc Dubois (PDL), Dylan Strome, and Rasmus Sandin.

They moved on from a locker-room distraction in Evgeny Kuznetsov.

This offseason, they acquired a legitimate number-one goaltender in Logan Thompson. It cost them two third-round picks, and he was only making league minimum.

They signed a top-four defenseman in Matt Roy—an upgrade over Nick Jensen, who was packaged with a third-round pick to acquire Jakob Chychrun. Chychrun has been a major boost to their blue line.

Two massive contracts—T.J. Oshie and Nicklas Bäckström—are off the books via long-term injured reserve (LTIR).

They have capitalized on the last three drafts, completely revitalizing their prospect pool with talent like Andrew Cristall, Ryan Leonard, Lane Hutson, Ivan Miroshnichenko, and Terik Parascak.

The emergence of Aliaksei Protas and Connor McMichael as legitimate top-six forwards has also been pivotal.

While some of these moves were made over the past three seasons, several happened within a single offseason. The injuries provided cap flexibility to make bold moves, including acquiring Andrew Mangiapane and Pierre-Luc Dubois. They also made smart additions on the blue line through free agency and the trade market.

Beyond all these moves, the biggest difference-maker—outside of Ovechkin's resurgence—has been Logan Thompson stabilizing the crease.

Meanwhile, the Penguins lost Jake Guentzel, re-signed Tristan Jarry despite his decline, and are now burdened with Erik Karlsson’s contract. Their path forward looks far more uncertain.

 

[Throttle]

And probably Russia not playing any international games…a guy Ovechikn’s age and size is a bit peculiar, to say the least.

 

[IslesNorway]

The Islanders could never do what a team like WSH has done, simply due to contracts they have handed out since Lou took charge. They were handcuffed from before only to give Engvall and Mayfield seven year deals. It’s how you don’t run a franchise really.

 

[Isles72]

Question for the group. WAS is basically #1 in the NHL at the 2/3 of the season mark. Are they legit Cup contenders, and accordingly should they be buyers at the TDL?

And then the important follow up question: did anyone see that coming? Would you have had WAS pegged as a top contender last summer and would not therefore be surprised right now, or if you were one of their fans would you have been advocating for a rebuild?

I did not see that coming. If I were a WAS fan I'd have advocated for a retool (since IMO retool is what every team needs to do all the time in the NHL now, with a cap, free agency, etc.).

I pegged them to definately be wildcard worthy due to the summer additions .

 

[Big L]

Meanwhile, the Penguins lost Jake Guentzel, re-signed Tristan Jarry despite his decline, and are now burdened with Erik Karlsson’s contract. Their path forward looks far more uncertain.

the penguins have a ridiculously bad GM. love it!

 

[The Real JT]

Here’s another take on the Nelson situation.

Does the high intensity, high skill atmosphere of the Four Nations tournament motivate Brock to find a different landing spot to compete for a Cup in his last few years?

 

[MJF]

Here’s another take on the Nelson situation.

Does the high intensity, high skill atmosphere of the Four Nations tournament motivate Brock to find a different landing spot to compete for a Cup in his last few years?

And…does it highlight the skill gap between a loaded team and Nelson and lower the price teams are willing to pay for him?

 

[The Real JT]

And…does it highlight the skill gap between a loaded team and Nelson and lower the price teams are willing to pay for him?

Same here.

For a number of reasons, it would be great to see him score at least once in this tournament.

 

[periferal]

Right, but last year they had 91 points, 3 less than the Isles, and missed the playoffs. Now they're basically the #1 team in the league. Did they rebuild over the summer and get a few top 5 picks?

Nope, as you said they had a good summer. And some prior moves (like Strome) really worked out. They retooled on the fly, tweaked the roster, and in the sea of mediocrity that is the modern NHL, they're suddenly a contender.

Doesn't that shoot some holes in the "we need to stink, hit bottom and draft top 5 for a few years in order to contend" line of thought?

Actually I think what's happened with the Capitals over the past year is literally perfect evidence that Lou needs to be fired ASAP.

Since they won the Cup in 2018 the Caps haven't won a playoff series, nor gone above 104 points. Now they're a president's trophy candidate, on pace for around 120, and went from 66-1 odds for a Cup before the season to now 12-1.

And why? Well look what they changed last offseason...

Their GM.

Then once they had a new person in charge of shaping the roster that GM made all sort of intelligent moves to improve the overall talent level starting with solidifying their goalie situation by trading for Logan Thompson. Then they also added guys with very good talent in Dubois and Chychrun and good depth pieces in Roy and Mangiapne. All of this took pressure off young star Aliaksei Protas allowing him to develop and you see the results.

If Lou would change his ways and stop overpaying for average talent, gumming up the cap with long-term deals leaving zero flexibility, and never having any impactful young talent in the system to improve the roster, I could get behind the idea that we could retool and maybe have success. But after 40+ years of GMing exactly the same way, he has already proven he could not accomplish what Chris Patrick (Capitals GM for those who aren't aware) did in just ONE offseason (and his 1st season ever as an NHL GM).

Think about that.

So fire Lou first and then when we see who his replacement is we can have a conversation on the best course forward.

 

[Glory Days]

The Islanders could never do what a team like WSH has done, simply due to contracts they have handed out since Lou took charge. They were handcuffed from before only to give Engvall and Mayfield seven year deals. It’s how you don’t run a franchise really.

That was certainly true in the past but not now. Nelson and Palms contracts expire after this year. Likely Lee and Pageau can be moved this offseason with one year left on their deals. Varly is looking like a candidate for LTIR. Engvall can be bought out at a reasonable cost. Those moves open up significant cap room. My point is that the cap situation isn’t that bleak anymore but will require a new GM with a new vision.